Herbal treatments for T2
Options
cstehansen
Posts: 1,984 Member
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662109/
I have been experimenting with cinnamon because it was on multiple lists as potentially helping to reduce BG. In my n=1 experimentation, it appears there may be a positive effect for me.
With this result, I was looking for some scientific data for both this and other herbal options and found the above study which I thought was interesting. Specifically, I thought this part talking about gymnema sylvestre was interesting:
The last part saying that for T2 the A1c was reduced by 11% would mean changing an A1c of 6 down to 5.34. That is HUGE!
There are some others being evaluated in here as well, but this seemed to be the one with the best results both in the mouse studies and the human studies.
I was just wondering if anyone has tried any of these herbal supplements for BG control, and if so, what your results were.
I have been experimenting with cinnamon because it was on multiple lists as potentially helping to reduce BG. In my n=1 experimentation, it appears there may be a positive effect for me.
With this result, I was looking for some scientific data for both this and other herbal options and found the above study which I thought was interesting. Specifically, I thought this part talking about gymnema sylvestre was interesting:
In one small clinical study, the fasting blood glucose (FBG) and HbA1C levels were improved in T2DM patients after receiving 200 mg of ethanolic extract of G. sylvestre either daily or their usual treatment for 18 to 20 months [41]. In a second clinical trial, the subjects showed reduced polyphagia, fatigue, blood glucose (fasting and postprandial), and HbA1C in comparison to the control group following an oral dose of 500 mg of herbal extract for a period of 3 months [42]. In an uncontrolled trial involving 65 patients with T1DM and T2DM, the FBG and HbA1C levels were decreased 11% and 0.6%, respectively, after oral dose of 800 mg daily of G. sylvestre extract [41].
The last part saying that for T2 the A1c was reduced by 11% would mean changing an A1c of 6 down to 5.34. That is HUGE!
There are some others being evaluated in here as well, but this seemed to be the one with the best results both in the mouse studies and the human studies.
I was just wondering if anyone has tried any of these herbal supplements for BG control, and if so, what your results were.
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Replies
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Can't help you on this but would love to know more about your n=1 cinnamon experiment. How much have you added to your diet and what impact did it make on your blood sugar level? I don't have diabetes but I'm trying to avoid it. I like cinnamon so it would be an easy thing for me to more regularly incorporate into my diet.0
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Can't help you on this but would love to know more about your n=1 cinnamon experiment. How much have you added to your diet and what impact did it make on your blood sugar level? I don't have diabetes but I'm trying to avoid it. I like cinnamon so it would be an easy thing for me to more regularly incorporate into my diet.
It is hard to tell for sure the results because I am doing multiple things, but I was using the guidelines of 2 or more teaspoons a day with it usually being at least 3. Frequently it is just eating a half teaspoon or so straight. I figured it was a cheap add compared to the other supplements so why not. Dr Mowll was where I heard it first, I think.
Regardless I figured safer to just keep it until I hit my goal and then experiment with removing it to see if it was contributing to the decline I have been having in my readings.1 -
Because of my weird situation, any time I include a "glucose lowering supplement" I tend to crash like a drunk driver. I even had to cut cinnamon out of a morning smoothie I was making for a while last year for this reason. It seems like for me, that whatever my body was doing to manage my glucose levels, cinnamon threw off it's game plan, so I can second that it definitely seems to help...
And my situation is so weird, so I'm keeping all this info in my back pocket for the day everything flips on me...
That being said, there were a number of compounds that can help lower blood sugars like this...I had a formula at one point that I tried... My main question would be, honestly, is that are there benefits aside from the sugar numbers going down? Recently, there has been a discussion that artificially lowering blood pressure and glucose and cholesterol don't really help unless they address the underlying inflammation and triggers, etc., that they don't reduce the long term risks and such...
drchristianson.com/shocking-proof-that-3-top-prescriptions-do-not-work/0 -
I don't know much about all the different things being said. But I do know that I use Ceylon cinnamon and was told to do so by someone who is very much into health and wellness. You may want to look into the differences and see if that may have an impact on your experimentation too! Good luck
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »Because of my weird situation, any time I include a "glucose lowering supplement" I tend to crash like a drunk driver. I even had to cut cinnamon out of a morning smoothie I was making for a while last year for this reason. It seems like for me, that whatever my body was doing to manage my glucose levels, cinnamon threw off it's game plan, so I can second that it definitely seems to help...
And my situation is so weird, so I'm keeping all this info in my back pocket for the day everything flips on me...
That being said, there were a number of compounds that can help lower blood sugars like this...I had a formula at one point that I tried... My main question would be, honestly, is that are there benefits aside from the sugar numbers going down? Recently, there has been a discussion that artificially lowering blood pressure and glucose and cholesterol don't really help unless they address the underlying inflammation and triggers, etc., that they don't reduce the long term risks and such...
drchristianson.com/shocking-proof-that-3-top-prescriptions-do-not-work/
I would appreciate this link more if he would give citations instead of just saying "studies" because we all know the quality of the study means a lot.
As for the BG lowering, I am familiar with studies that support what he is saying, HOWEVER, there is a huge factor he did not include. That is, these studies lowered BG by increasing insulin to very high levels which are basically ramming the BG into the cells. As many of us in this group know, elevated insulin leads to inflammation and atherosclerosis which are more deadly than high BG.
If the BG is lowered through improving insulin sensitivity for those who are IR, then there are benefits.
If BG is lowered through slightly elevating insulin because a person does not produce enough, but those levels are still within a healthy range, then the person will be better off.
The research on cholesterol I have done seems to support what he is saying. As for the HBP, that is an area where I have not done any research simply because my BP has always been on the low end of healthy. The only discussion that ever came up for me was a doctor mentioning if it were much lower he would need to put me on meds to increase it. Now it is leveled off averaging around 100-105 over 55-65. For those with concerns about too much sodium, my intake is generally in excess of 6000 mg a day.0 -
cstehansen wrote: »Can't help you on this but would love to know more about your n=1 cinnamon experiment. How much have you added to your diet and what impact did it make on your blood sugar level? I don't have diabetes but I'm trying to avoid it. I like cinnamon so it would be an easy thing for me to more regularly incorporate into my diet.
It is hard to tell for sure the results because I am doing multiple things, but I was using the guidelines of 2 or more teaspoons a day with it usually being at least 3. Frequently it is just eating a half teaspoon or so straight. I figured it was a cheap add compared to the other supplements so why not. Dr Mowll was where I heard it first, I think.
Regardless I figured safer to just keep it until I hit my goal and then experiment with removing it to see if it was contributing to the decline I have been having in my readings.
That's quite a bit of cinnamon. Sometimes, I put it in coffee and lately, I've been trying it in tea. I think I would choke if I tried to eat it plain - no 'cinnamon challenge' for me! It will take a conscientious effort to up it that much but certainly worth a try.
Thanks for sharing your experience.0 -
Please, Please, Please look into Cinnamon Toxicity if you are taking cinnamon as a supplement and not just using it as a spice. It is a real issue and put my father in the hospital. You can take too much and it can seriously damage your health. Every person is going to be different, people will respond different ways but if you develop a cough, an inexplicable rash or find yourself fatigued seek treatment.2
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I don't know much about all the different things being said. But I do know that I use Ceylon cinnamon and was told to do so by someone who is very much into health and wellness. You may want to look into the differences and see if that may have an impact on your experimentation too! Good luck
You are correct about Ceylon cinnamon. Cassia cinnamon, which is the type most commonly used form of cinnamon (at least here in the US), has high levels of coumarin, which can cause health problems.0 -
cstehansen wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »Because of my weird situation, any time I include a "glucose lowering supplement" I tend to crash like a drunk driver. I even had to cut cinnamon out of a morning smoothie I was making for a while last year for this reason. It seems like for me, that whatever my body was doing to manage my glucose levels, cinnamon threw off it's game plan, so I can second that it definitely seems to help...
And my situation is so weird, so I'm keeping all this info in my back pocket for the day everything flips on me...
That being said, there were a number of compounds that can help lower blood sugars like this...I had a formula at one point that I tried... My main question would be, honestly, is that are there benefits aside from the sugar numbers going down? Recently, there has been a discussion that artificially lowering blood pressure and glucose and cholesterol don't really help unless they address the underlying inflammation and triggers, etc., that they don't reduce the long term risks and such...
drchristianson.com/shocking-proof-that-3-top-prescriptions-do-not-work/
I would appreciate this link more if he would give citations instead of just saying "studies" because we all know the quality of the study means a lot.
As for the BG lowering, I am familiar with studies that support what he is saying, HOWEVER, there is a huge factor he did not include. That is, these studies lowered BG by increasing insulin to very high levels which are basically ramming the BG into the cells. As many of us in this group know, elevated insulin leads to inflammation and atherosclerosis which are more deadly than high BG.
If the BG is lowered through improving insulin sensitivity for those who are IR, then there are benefits.
If BG is lowered through slightly elevating insulin because a person does not produce enough, but those levels are still within a healthy range, then the person will be better off.
The research on cholesterol I have done seems to support what he is saying. As for the HBP, that is an area where I have not done any research simply because my BP has always been on the low end of healthy. The only discussion that ever came up for me was a doctor mentioning if it were much lower he would need to put me on meds to increase it. Now it is leveled off averaging around 100-105 over 55-65. For those with concerns about too much sodium, my intake is generally in excess of 6000 mg a day.
@cstehansen - I SOOOOO agree with you on needing more citations. However, I've heard this a lot lately. I don't know if it is just the "flavor opinion" of the month or what.
I agree, too, that lowering blood glucose alone through artificial means (like excreting it in urine overtaxes the kidneys) and stuff, is bad. Lowering glucose, lowering insulin needs, reducing insulin resistance/improving insulin sensitivity, reducing underlying inflammation, I think that is the goal. And if meds only address one thing, I see the problem...
The HBP, I personally have as the result of another medication that isn't an option to stop, and my goal was never really to reduce long term risk of death or stroke, etc., but the medication, but rather damage to my veins and arteries, permanent damage... However, in one class of medications, after several years, I developed an insane level of sun sensitivity. My PCP basically ruled out that class of meds for me (ACE inhibitors). Now, it's starting to look like I'm reacting to the second class (Beta Blockers), which would only leave a new class. I start getting so frustrated with this type of thing...
Random question, do beta blockers affect the pancreas in any way, like are the beta cells related? Dunno why this popped in my head. I'm also ashamed to not have researched this one myself before now.
But yes, getting to the root causes are crucial, but sometimes you have to stop and stem the bloodflow from the worst current wound to survive long enough to find the worst, starting point, no?0 -
@KnitOrMiss - I don't really know much about beta blockers. Sorry.
In looking at the study in my original post, each of those herbs tested that showed an effect gave a reason as to why it worked. Some were by increasing insulin secretion, some by increasing insulin sensitivity, some by facilitating glucose uptake, some by blocking carb absorption and one mentioned inhibiting gluconeogenesis which I thought was interesting. Some had multiple of these.
For someone with IR, those that increased insulin secretion would probably be a bad idea. However for me, they may be a good idea since my problem seems to be that I am not secreting enough insulin. That was partially due to some micronutrient deficiencies which I am addressing. However, given my fasting insulin was only 3 even though my FBG is always over 100, I am not in any way hyperinsulinemic. Using something that raises insulin just a little might be of benefit for me. All the IR tests came back showing I am very insulin sensitive, there just isn't enough insulin in my system to keep my BG down.
Radix ginseng, and 5 flavor berry both seemed like good options because they mentioned showing that they increased sensitivity and "found to be able to prevent β-cell apoptosis" which means they keep them from dying.3
