Increase cals to 2600 to keep losing? Stuck in a rut

Ojimjams
Ojimjams Posts: 14 Member
edited May 2017 in Social Groups
I'm a bit confused as to what to do with regards to how much to eat. I started EM2WL a year ago and have lost over 32lbs eating over 2000 cals and eating up to 2400 cals on days where I've not only worked out but also walked a lot. I started at 180 and now 148 -24% bf- 5ft 3 female ( Was 146 before diet break.

I used to have a tomtom spark cardio watch which I used religiously to know my TDEE, and well, it seemed to be working really really well. Throughout the last year, I've incorporated diet breaks but will admiut that in the last few months I've been slightly reluctant as my weight loss has really slowed down. I kicked into gear 3 weeks ago and ate waaay over TDEE and gained about 1.8 lbs over a three week period which isn't too bad. When I first started losing weight, expecting a 1lbs or slightly over 1lbs a week loss was a given. I didn't have to worry about it at all because it was melting off, but now it seems like I'm moving back into the diet cycle. I've tried cutting under 2000 for a while and it didn't make a massive difference. I tried more cardio and that didn't seem to help. I seem to be having to do more now with diminishing returns.

I bought a new fitness tracker- Garmin vivoactive hr which is a major upgrade from my last one. it tracks my heart rate 24/7 and I'm also using aHRM strap during workouts as wrist-based monitors aren't great for high-intensity workouts. I work out 6 times a week, lifting heavy 3 times a week FYI. The TDEE number my Garmin is giving me is crazy. It's saying that I'm burning in excess of 3500cals! In an intense cardio session, I can burn 800 cals, and I am a college student and walk a lot, especially as I live in a hilly area but these numbers seem ridiculous. I don't want to eat less because I know it doesn't work and I feel like cutting back is part of the reason I've been spinning my wheels, but eating 2600 cals seems ludicrous. Surely that much would cause weight gain! Should I go with my Garmin TDEE cals and just wing it for a while and up my calories, or do you think the watch may just be wrong? In which case, what do I then do as I still want to lose another 30lbs?

Would appreciate any help as I've been stuck in a rut for a while.

xxx

Replies

  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    The HR-based calorie burn should NOT be used for daily activity, as it'll be inflated then. It can be read and shown, just not used for anything.

    So activity trackers know this fact and have to figure out where your exercise level HR is to start HR-based calorie burn, and below which step-based is more accurate to use.

    If this is still the 1st 2 weeks, it's still figuring that out. So it's probably counting more daily life than it should.

    Also - HR-based is only a good chance of accuracy for steady-state aerobic, same HR for 2-4 min.
    If your intense cardio is up and down like intervals - it'll be inflated.

    Or because it's intense and high HR, the estimated HRmax becomes more important figure, and since most start at 220-age, you could be much higher than that figure.
    So if it thinks 195 is your HRmax, but it's really 210 - and your workout is up around 185 bpm, well, that's inflated calorie burn too.

    You might check your online account if you can adjust your HRmax figure so it'll sync back over, and then get a better idea.


    Also, the rate of weight loss should slow down as you have less to lose.
    Considering you are around a healthy BF% already, it's likely a fight for your body to want to go under - if that BF% is accurate anyway.
    You'll need to go much slower if you want to go lower into athletic range.


    Also curious, have you ever skipped these intense cardio workouts for a week to see how much better the lifting heavy could be?
    You probably have no idea of the negative impact intense cardio has on a good lifting routine.
    Then again, if the intense cardio is your focus and lifting is just meant for maintenance, I hope you are correctly using different muscle groups so as not to just cause more stress with little benefit.

    Many people aren't aware, it's a good hard workout that tears the body down.
    It's the rest for recovery and repair that actually builds it back up, stronger if diet allows.
    If no recovery, workouts stop being hard as needed and cause no damage.
  • empressichel
    empressichel Posts: 730 Member
    edited May 2017
    I would say even if the Garmin is off at 3500, that going for 2000 calories is still going to be way under.
    Have you tried your numbers in online calculators like our one (being honest with your activity level, sounds like you do a lot) http://eatmore2weighless.com/weight-loss-calculator/ as this will give you a guide too even if your Garmin is off.
    Heybales is spot on that your weight loss will slow, especially as your body fat is in healthy range. You have already achieved so much so stop a moment and congratualte yourself on your achievement so far!
    What are you wanting to achieve now? Is it a number on a scale? Is it a different look to your body? More strength? More endurance?
    Knowing your goal at this point will point you in the right direction of what you should be doing more or less of but you have been at this long enough to know the answer is not to keep cutting calories! That journey only ends in misery!
    This is one of my favourite Kiki blogs on plateaus
    http://eatmore2weighless.com/workout-or-diet-plateau/

    Ichel
    Team EM2WL
  • Ojimjams
    Ojimjams Posts: 14 Member
    @heybales Thank you very much for your response. Both my old tomtom and new garmin both track steps. The Garmin shows the exact same RMR each day ( it breaks down my calorie burn between rmr and 'active calories'). Please forgive the confusion here: do you think I should turn of the 24/7hr function and see what that says?

    I've never tested my max HR. The highest my chest strap has ever shown was 185bmp but i still felt like I could go harder. I think you may have really hit the nail on the head here though, so I will test my max hr out - with a chest strap rather than the watch- and see what that leads to!


    When I do a diet/ cut break i eat to TDEE but dont stop exercising fully. When I do eat to full TDEE I notice a lot more strength but have never stopped the cardio, so I'll lessen that and see what it leads to. I am more concerned with losing fat and maintaining the muscle I already have rather than gaining any at the minute though, but I'm wiling to try it out for a bit especially as I walk a lot. ( 22 000 + steps a day for me is quite normal) - now in reflection I do think I may have set my activity level too low. I definitely do 7+ hours a week but have had it set to 'moderate' since I started.

    I do have to admit that i've been reluctant to take days off because of my slow loss, but I may just be shooting myself in the foot here hahaha. Another thing I'll have tp change.

    Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my question! It's greatly appreciated!
  • Ojimjams
    Ojimjams Posts: 14 Member
    @empressichel Thanks very much for your response.

    I definitely wasn't seeing any improvements under 2000, but lately I have been going a bit crazy with trying to get the scale to move ! ( Just as a sidenote I do also take measurements )

    The calculators have always been my 'guide' and I used my watch for specificity. I do think now that I should maybe have my activity level set to the highest, rather than just moderate. I work out 6 times a week and ONTOP of that walk a looot. My legs are my primary mode of transportation haha. When I put my stats into the calc it says that for a 10% cut I would indeed need to be eating 2535 cals which isn't too far off from 2600. All this time i've been thinking that I've freed myself from the diet cycle but it seems I have still been undereating some.

    Haha thank you very much. I am really pleased with what I've acheived so far, but I still feel like there's a long way to go before I get my dream bod.

    I would say my goals are as follows:
    Keep cutting body fat
    Increase cardiovascular endurance - hoping to join a sports team next academic year so this'll be very important.
    Maintain muscle mass as much as possible. ( would eventially like to gain more especially in my back and shoulders)
    So I suppose it's a little bit of everything ?? But i'd say fat loss is still supreme. I feel like I could lose another 10-15lbs and still wouldn't be anything close to looking like I've 'taken it too far'.

    I'd like to also say that I weighed this morning ( a few days after the original post and about a week after getting my new watch ) and I'm down 1lb with increased cals!

    I will still try and change the max HR setting because I think Heybales has really hit the nail on the head there -it currently has my max hr as 198 and that seems a little high to me. I'll test and then report back!

    Will be checking out that blog post too!

    Thank you again for taking the time to help me out. It's truly appreciated !!
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Before I forget, if a goal is endurance cardio, than intense cardio workouts is training the carb-burning system, not the required fat-burning system.

    While the body is ready to burn mainly fat at rest and slowly drop that % and increase carb % as cardio intensity goes up, you can train it with constant intense workouts to go straight to higher % of carbs burned then is really needed.
    Which is exactly the wrong training if you want endurance cardio.
    You want body to burn as high a % of fat for as long as it can as intensity goes up.

    I'd suggest you don't need the high intensity for calorie burn - just in case that was originally a reason for it.
    Your high daily walking increases your daily burn enough probably.

    For lifting, you could have 3 x upper body sessions weekly, and just do 1 x lower body, day after rest day, with an easy cardio day afterwards to allow recovery. Other 2 sessions if desired could be maintenance level, or much higher reps to support endurance athlete requirements.

    Keep minor deficit, 250 or 10% at this point.


    If you saw that 185 HR early on in a workout, like first 15 minutes and felt you could have gone harder, then it's probably 10-15 more to HRmax.
    If that was near the end of a harder session and you still hit that - then probably 15-25 more.

    MaxHR has to be tested by a fast ramping method, because otherwise the muscles get tired too fast and can't push hard enough to truly get the HR up.
    If you want a protocol to do, if no heart issues:
    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/heybales/view/testing-hrmax-vo2max-with-max-treadmill-test-643927


    The 24/7 option for viewing HR would be purely for saving battery life. It might help protect against inflated calorie burn somewhat.
    It should learn your HR eventually that when you do your daily walking - use step-based not HR-based calorie burn.
    Unless you walk with heavy backpack and fast enough to get HR up to decent level - then yes HR-based can be decent estimate.
  • Ojimjams
    Ojimjams Posts: 14 Member
    Thank you so much for the in-depth response. I'm definitely going to try to take as much of this on board as possible. I've aready decided to reduce the amount of cardio I do per week and will see what happens!
  • empressichel
    empressichel Posts: 730 Member
    Love your goals!
    Are you periodising your workouts?
    You are waaaay active! 22000 steps! You must wear out shoes in a hurry!
    So glad you are figuring this out and increasing calls, decreasing cardio.
    Thanks for reaching out and being receptive to advice.
    Ichel
    Team EM2WL
  • Ojimjams
    Ojimjams Posts: 14 Member
    I'm not quite sure what you mean by periodising workouts.
    I tend to hahaha =)
    I'm already experiencing progress with the increased cals which is so motivating!
    Thank you for being willing to help out with my queries XD XD
  • empressichel
    empressichel Posts: 730 Member
    This blog post explains periodising perfectly. http://eatmore2weighless.com/periodization-key-preventing-plateaus/
    Hope it helps!
    Ichel
    Team EM2WL