N=1 error with supplements?
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cstehansen
Posts: 1,984 Member
A little while back, I posted about trying some various supplements (berberine, fenugreek, gymnema sylvestre and ginseng) because they are herbs that have been used for hundreds and in some cases thousands of years and now have scientific studies showing they do in fact lower BG in many people.
After about 6 weeks of using all 4, I had almost no noticeable difference in my BG which was frustrating. It had been trending down for a few months and did continue to trend down just a bit, but soon leveled off. I assumed I was in that minority that did not see an effect from these.
However, after dropping them all, I had that small rise back to where I was before starting them (only about 5-8 mg/dl average per reading). I didn't want to go back to taking all of them again because to get them in the quantities shown to be effective, that is a heckuva lot of pills for minimal gain.
Also after @GaleHawkins mentioned he had great success with berberine, and it is one that has come up the most in terms of being shown as being as effective as metformin, I thought I would try it alone.
Low and behold, 2 days in and my BG for PP is down more than 10 mg/dl and my FBG is down almost 15 and my pre-meal is down less consistently, but minimum of 10 and as much as 20+.
Maybe, just maybe, there is something about combining these that causes them to cancel out? I don't know. I will take this as a reason to slow down and go back to trying one thing at a time to make sure I am doing a better n=1 experiment.
I want results right now. However, getting accurate results that can be truly linked to a specific action means I need to completely isolate that one action.
My plan is to continue just the berberine for at least 30 days to make sure results last. Depending on where I am at that point, this may be the final thing I need to add to my regimen to get to where I want to me with my BG.
After about 6 weeks of using all 4, I had almost no noticeable difference in my BG which was frustrating. It had been trending down for a few months and did continue to trend down just a bit, but soon leveled off. I assumed I was in that minority that did not see an effect from these.
However, after dropping them all, I had that small rise back to where I was before starting them (only about 5-8 mg/dl average per reading). I didn't want to go back to taking all of them again because to get them in the quantities shown to be effective, that is a heckuva lot of pills for minimal gain.
Also after @GaleHawkins mentioned he had great success with berberine, and it is one that has come up the most in terms of being shown as being as effective as metformin, I thought I would try it alone.
Low and behold, 2 days in and my BG for PP is down more than 10 mg/dl and my FBG is down almost 15 and my pre-meal is down less consistently, but minimum of 10 and as much as 20+.
Maybe, just maybe, there is something about combining these that causes them to cancel out? I don't know. I will take this as a reason to slow down and go back to trying one thing at a time to make sure I am doing a better n=1 experiment.
I want results right now. However, getting accurate results that can be truly linked to a specific action means I need to completely isolate that one action.
My plan is to continue just the berberine for at least 30 days to make sure results last. Depending on where I am at that point, this may be the final thing I need to add to my regimen to get to where I want to me with my BG.
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Replies
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What is the dosage that gave that result? I'd love to see DH's numbers drop like that.1
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500 mg 3x a day is what showed success in the best clinical trial I found.2
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@cstehansen That is good feedback. The shotgun approach is expensive and does not give a real detailed feedback. I agree it's best to work with a few at a time and I'm backing out of some of mine as well. Have you worked any versions of alpolic acid yet?
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@cstehansen, please keep us posted! (I just bought my first bottle of berberine today after reading the berberine /Metformin thread.)
@GaleHawkins, what all are you dropping?0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »@cstehansen That is good feedback. The shotgun approach is expensive and does not give a real detailed feedback. I agree it's best to work with a few at a time and I'm backing out of some of mine as well. Have you worked any versions of alpolic acid yet?
You managed to mention one with which I have no knowledge at all. I just added it to my list so I can do my research and figure out where to put it in terms of order if trial.1 -
Alpha-lipoic? (bad otto-cracked... )0
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cstehansen wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »@cstehansen That is good feedback. The shotgun approach is expensive and does not give a real detailed feedback. I agree it's best to work with a few at a time and I'm backing out of some of mine as well. Have you worked any versions of alpolic acid yet?
You managed to mention one with which I have no knowledge at all. I just added it to my list so I can do my research and figure out where to put it in terms of order if trial.
@cstehansen I trying several options after learning about Poly MVA in one of the cancer protocols I have tested. For my personal use I am leaning towards Super R--Lopoic Acid 240 mg by LEF based on the following info and references.
lifeextension.com/magazine/2007/10/nu_lipoic_acid/page-01
At the link below I read the following and said why not give it a try.
https://selfhacked.com/2016/06/28/lipoic-acid/
"Lipoic acid is a natural antioxidant and anti-inflammatory compound that protects the brain, helps with weight loss, improves diabetes, decreases the risk of cardiovascular disease and alleviates pain. And these are only some of the numerous benefits of this “universal antioxidant”. Read on to learn more about how lipoic acid helps increase your wellbeing."
Since it crosses the Blood Brain Barrier there are a lot of interest in this supplement that is actually made by the body as well but perhaps less as we age. If you find some pros/cons in your research not mentioned here let us know.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »cstehansen wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »@cstehansen That is good feedback. The shotgun approach is expensive and does not give a real detailed feedback. I agree it's best to work with a few at a time and I'm backing out of some of mine as well. Have you worked any versions of alpolic acid yet?
You managed to mention one with which I have no knowledge at all. I just added it to my list so I can do my research and figure out where to put it in terms of order if trial.
@cstehansen I trying several options after learning about Poly MVA in one of the cancer protocols I have tested. For my personal use I am leaning towards Super R--Lopoic Acid 240 mg by LEF based on the following info and references.
lifeextension.com/magazine/2007/10/nu_lipoic_acid/page-01
At the link below I read the following and said why not give it a try.
https://selfhacked.com/2016/06/28/lipoic-acid/
"Lipoic acid is a natural antioxidant and anti-inflammatory compound that protects the brain, helps with weight loss, improves diabetes, decreases the risk of cardiovascular disease and alleviates pain. And these are only some of the numerous benefits of this “universal antioxidant”. Read on to learn more about how lipoic acid helps increase your wellbeing."
Since it crosses the Blood Brain Barrier there are a lot of interest in this supplement that is actually made by the body as well but perhaps less as we age. If you find some pros/cons in your research not mentioned here let us know.
Thanks for the links. I have added them to my reading list.1 -
FWIW, I have ordered a bottle of berberine as well. All I am taking right now is Metformin. a bp med and a multivitamin. On a technicality, I have my electrolyte drink every day too.
So - I have a solid data baseline and not too many stray bits of info complicating things. I will report back.2 -
I always hesitate at things that are supposed to help regulate or lower blood glucose. My body seems to have worked up it's own rigged/janky system to keep it controlled, mostly. When I took a supplement that had chromium in it, I started having crash after crash on it, and I was fully hard keto at that point! I stopped it within a few days. And after that, I can barely use cinnamon in anything, or it brings on the lows for me, too... It's such a pain... I try to help my body, and it whammies me.
There is some dispute for me, too, over a thyroid formula that made me have a crazy reaction. Since I've taken nearly all of the components individually, I have to guess that it was either the Guggal or the Copper that threw me way out of whack (the itching/burning/crawling skin reactions that would prevent me from sleeping, for anyone who remembers). I have learned to completely HATE combo meds...1
