Saturated Fats HELP
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LolaDeeDaisy23
Posts: 383 Member
What are your thoughts regarding eating saturated fats on a ketogenic/low carb diet?
There was another thread I have read where someone on LCHF went crazy with the saturated fats and their cholesterol went from normal to extremely high (bulletproof coffee everyday, etc.)
Any studies or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
Also on a personal note, I have switched from eating butter with everything to now eating olive oil, avocado oil and coconut oil and I just FEEL better. I also stopped eating beef, pork, and dairy. The only dairy in my diet is Greek yogurt.
I made the change because I'm prepping for a bodybuilding competition and it makes life easier to just eat chicken/tuna everyday.
There was another thread I have read where someone on LCHF went crazy with the saturated fats and their cholesterol went from normal to extremely high (bulletproof coffee everyday, etc.)
Any studies or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
Also on a personal note, I have switched from eating butter with everything to now eating olive oil, avocado oil and coconut oil and I just FEEL better. I also stopped eating beef, pork, and dairy. The only dairy in my diet is Greek yogurt.
I made the change because I'm prepping for a bodybuilding competition and it makes life easier to just eat chicken/tuna everyday.
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Replies
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Well, first you'd have to prove that having high cholesterol is an actual health risk which many researchers have failed to do for decades...
so I personally have no issue with saturated fat.4 -
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/31/bjsports-2016-097285
http://www.nutrition-coalition.org/commentary-challenging-prevailing-views-on-saturated-fats/
https://www.dietdoctor.com/the-hidden-truth-behind-ancel-keys-famous-fat-graph
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/13/well/eat/how-the-sugar-industry-shifted-blame-to-fat.html?_r=0&referer=
http://blog.virtahealth.com/the-sad-saga-of-saturated-fat/
http://doctoraseem.com/truth-really-causes-heart-disease/2 -
If you prefer to watch a video rather than read, this one covers the topic nicely as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc1XsO3mxX8
As you will learn if you really dig deep into the research, the fat and cholesterol that is dangerous is what is oxidized. Saturated fat has all of its carbon bonds attached to hydrogen bonds which is why it is called saturated (meaning no more carbon atoms are available with which to bond). Think of is like a sponge that is saturated with water. It can't take on any more water.
Anyway, mono unsaturated means there is one available carbon atom with which something can bond. Poly unsaturated means there are 2 or more.
The more available bonds there are, the more easily the fat molecule becomes oxidized which is what makes it dangerous. This is why those with the old school thinking will say olive oil is heart healthy as it is primarily mono unsaturated. They can't bring themselves to tell people saturated fat is good so they come as close as they can by admitting mono unsaturated is best.
Cholesterol is in every cell of your body. It is required. It is what makes the cell walls "water-proof" which is how they keep what is supposed to be inside inside and what is supposed to be outside outside.
Cholesterol is also required for producing hormones. Have you ever wondered why every commercial break on TV is advertising Viagra or a similar drug? It is because we have been pushing men's cholesterol so low that they are not producing enough testosterone.
One last link. This is one of at least 3 studies, primarily looking at older people, showing that as we age, higher cholesterol is associated with longevity:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2047002012 -
Mine went was normal but on the high side of normal to beyond perfect, so I'd say enjoy the saturated fats. Just remember, stay away from the processed carbs. That's what increases your cholesterol.3
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And TRANS fats. Avoid those like the pestilent plague they are.6
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Those with familial hypercholesterolemia will have very high cholesterol on a high fat diet. It's rare though. For the vast majority of us, eating quality fat is a heart heal;thy thing to do.2
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cstehansen wrote: »If you prefer to watch a video rather than read, this one covers the topic nicely as well:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc1XsO3mxX8
As you will learn if you really dig deep into the research, the fat and cholesterol that is dangerous is what is oxidized. Saturated fat has all of its carbon bonds attached to hydrogen bonds which is why it is called saturated (meaning no more carbon atoms are available with which to bond). Think of is like a sponge that is saturated with water. It can't take on any more water.
Anyway, mono unsaturated means there is one available carbon atom with which something can bond. Poly unsaturated means there are 2 or more.
The more available bonds there are, the more easily the fat molecule becomes oxidized which is what makes it dangerous. This is why those with the old school thinking will say olive oil is heart healthy as it is primarily mono unsaturated. They can't bring themselves to tell people saturated fat is good so they come as close as they can by admitting mono unsaturated is best.
Cholesterol is in every cell of your body. It is required. It is what makes the cell walls "water-proof" which is how they keep what is supposed to be inside inside and what is supposed to be outside outside.
Cholesterol is also required for producing hormones. Have you ever wondered why every commercial break on TV is advertising Viagra or a similar drug? It is because we have been pushing men's cholesterol so low that they are not producing enough testosterone.
One last link. This is one of at least 3 studies, primarily looking at older people, showing that as we age, higher cholesterol is associated with longevity:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20470020
Amazing video. Soooo much information... just shocking.4 -
Great Video. There is so much to learn.2
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@cstehansen Thank you so much for that video. Wow that is amazing and just mind blowing how there's medical professionals out there who are just crooked! Crooked crooked. Unbelievable.
I also found another video that talks about cancer patients benefitting off keto:
https://youtu.be/Q9socQcwPIs 3 -
LolaDeeDaisy23 wrote: »@cstehansen Thank you so much for that video. Wow that is amazing and just mind blowing how there's medical professionals out there who are just crooked! Crooked crooked. Unbelievable.
I also found another video that talks about cancer patients benefitting off keto:https://youtu.be/Q9socQcwPIs
I really want to believe that most are not crooked. I look at it like politics. If you look at government programs that are put in place to help people, what you find when the results are actually analyzed is that many of them have the exact opposite effect. This is is not a political forum, so I don't want to get into which ones these are. However, I think the voters who are in favor of these tend to believe their support is well placed. It is really a small number at the tops of political parties (and yes, I meant for that to be plural) who are crooked.
In the same way, most medical professionals and even researchers want to do what is best, however, our medical education system is not set up in a constructive manner and is highly directed by political sources. Then when those medical professionals and researchers get out into the real world, they are so indoctrinated in what they are supposed to do that it takes someone who is not just willing, but able to weed through the male bovine excrement to see that pharmaceuticals are NOT the best option for everything after having had it drilled into their heads that they are not only the best option, but the only option for several years.
If you look at the way medical school is set up with residency being a time where they are regularly deprived of sleep, exercise and proper nutrition for those few years, it is not dissimilar to what one would do if trying to brainwash someone. It is breaking down mental resistance and the ability to think for oneself and pushing in "group think" as fact.
Then when in the real world, the vast majority of "continued education" comes in the form of training put on by the pharmaceutical companies and visits from reps of those companies. With literally thousands of research studies coming out each year, no doctor can read through them all.
At the same time, researchers have to put food on their tables and therefore they have to do research someone will fund. If the hypothetical solution being studied is not one that will provide a return on investment, very few people are willing to fund it. That means funding for studies that look to see if diet will affect an outcome get no funding.
Now that I have been beating on the pessimist's drum, here is a ray of hope. First, we have a few groups who have been able to get some funding like https://www.virtahealth.com/research and we also have sites like experiment.com which is a crowd funding site for science. This has been successful in getting things funded like this one for studying keto for cancer - https://experiment.com/projects/part-2-can-low-carbohydrate-ketogenic-diets-inhibit-cancers
Richard Feinman has been a giant in terms of studying keto for cancer. He is truly brilliant, but he is definitely a scientist first and not the greatest of communicators and certainly not politically correct, so his message sometimes gets lost.4 -
I love Richard Feinman's communication style. I subscribe to his blog and wish he'd write more but he's a pretty busy guy. He's almost exactly like my rheumatologist (the one my PCP 'warned' me about, lol).2
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AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »And TRANS fats. Avoid those like the pestilent plague they are.
This right here is the problem with pretty much every single piece of research that claims that "saturated" fat is bad. What they actually do is equate trans fats (hydrogenated fats) with saturated fats, treat them as the same thing, then claim all saturated fats are bad.
Hydrogenated cottonseed or soybean oil are not in any way, shape, or form the same as lard, tallow, and butter they were meant to replace.
Hydrogenation came about when people realized that they could "saturate" (add the "missing" hydrogen atoms to) unsaturated fats and make them more shelf stable and solid (which then picked up in popularity when the "saturated fat is bad" message started spreading). Best of both worlds, right? You get the health bonuses of the unsaturated fats and the texture and stability of the saturated ones! Yay!
Except... hydrogenation results in trans fats -- the hydrogen atoms are on the wrong side of the double bond(s) of the unsaturated molecules, so while it "straightens" the bends from the double bonds, it doesn't create true saturated fats. Saturating oleic acid (C18:1) does not give you stearic acid (C18:0), it gives you elaidic acid (trans-18:1, still not actually saturated, as noted by the ":1" part, which indicates the number of double bonds in the chain).LolaDeeDaisy23 wrote: »Also on a personal note, I have switched from eating butter with everything to now eating olive oil, avocado oil and coconut oil and I just FEEL better. I also stopped eating beef, pork, and dairy. The only dairy in my diet is Greek yogurt.
Dairy and pork are common trouble items for people.
The dairy has the double-whammy of the lactose and A1 beta-casein, which many humans have issues with. If you ever want to experiment with dairy, try ghee (contains no lactose or milk proteins, as opposed to regular butter, which still does) and goat or sheep milk (or milk from certified A2/A2 cows) and see if you have the same issue (though I suspect that if you can handle yogurt, it may be a lactose thing, though the fermentation may be a confounding factor).
The pork...well... Zero Carb Zen has an entire page dedicated to the interesting and unique effects of pork and why some/many people have issues with it (especially non-marinated or cured varieties). Definitely worth reading.
As for the beef, I suspect it's a collateral damage victim as it's one of the meats we're most adapted to (evolutionarily speaking) and is generally well-tolerated, though without other information, it's hard telling (for example if you've only recently started consuming red meat with regularity, it could be a simple matter of enzyme and/or bile production hasn't adapted yet, so it's not digesting properly, though it is possible to have an intolerance). If you had cut out beef before cutting out pork and dairy, it's worth re-introducing.4 -
@Dragonwolf Wow thank you so much for your detailed response!! I will definitely try reintroducing beef into my diet and seeing how I feel. Thank you
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Wow, interesting link, @Dragonwolf. Weirdly enough, we ate unmarinated pork chops yesterday evening.
I cannot hand on heart say I felt any the worse for it, but pork tends to disagree with my H a lot of the time, and gives him indigestion, although last night he seemed fine.
Bearing in mind he is an 'ex' T2D.... lost weight, no longer on his meds, as they are not needed....0 -
Quote "The dairy has the double-whammy of the lactose and A1 beta-casein, which many humans have issues with."
For those lucky enough to be in Australia & New Zealand, you can buy A-2 beta-casein dairy - it is specifically marked on the containers. This was something new that I learned just the other day. It is from Guernsey and Brown Swiss cows. 96% of Guernseys produce only A2, Swiss Brown are next with 65%, but Holsteins are lowest with 35%. One could try sourcing local milk from Guernseys even in the US, UK, & Canada.
Human milk is exclusively A2.1 -
LolaDeeDaisy23 wrote: »What are your thoughts regarding eating saturated fats on a ketogenic/low carb diet?
There was another thread I have read where someone on LCHF went crazy with the saturated fats and their cholesterol went from normal to extremely high (bulletproof coffee everyday, etc.)
Any studies or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
Also on a personal note, I have switched from eating butter with everything to now eating olive oil, avocado oil and coconut oil and I just FEEL better. I also stopped eating beef, pork, and dairy. The only dairy in my diet is Greek yogurt.
I made the change because I'm prepping for a bodybuilding competition and it makes life easier to just eat chicken/tuna everyday.
My thoughts: fats are yummy and sugar makes you fat.
As far as studies it experiences, the best resource IMO is watching the Fathead video. Entertaining and educational.
You have to eat something. And if (I think they do) low carb with low fat is tasteless and depressing, I'd go sat fat any day of the week.
In my thought process, carbs and esp sugar and processed foods are the villain - not sat fat. Dietary fat is not body fat - and body fat is stored carbs.
Example: which is better, butter or low fat fake spread? A delicious variety of full fat cheese or a cube of nasty fake fat free cheese. Good enough research for me.1 -
JessicaLCHF wrote: »My thoughts: fats are yummy and sugar makes you fat.
As far as studies it experiences, the best resource IMO is watching the Fathead video. Entertaining and educational.
You have to eat something. And if (I think they do) low carb with low fat is tasteless and depressing, I'd go sat fat any day of the week.
In my thought process, carbs and esp sugar and processed foods are the villain - not sat fat. Dietary fat is not body fat - and body fat is stored carbs.
Example: which is better, butter or low fat fake spread? A delicious variety of full fat cheese or a cube of nasty fake fat free cheese. Good enough research for me.
Since posting this thread, I have immersed myself in studies and videos and books regarding this topic. Saturated fats are shown to increase cholesterol, yes. BUT that means it increases both HDL and LDL. Does having high cholesterol mean you are at higher risk at having some type of life event (heart disease, heart attack, etc.)? No. Studies have shown that total cholesterol does not really mean anything. In fact, elderly people with higher cholesterol live longer than those with lower cholesterol. And what's more important is the particle size for HDL and LDL.
Now, I'm not comparing sat fat to low fat. Again, studies have shown a low fat diet is actually very unhealthy for women and children.
But to answer my own question, eat all the natural fats, lard, butter, coconut oil, etc. Do not touch the vegetable oils or partially hydrogenated oils. Did you know cooking with vegetable oil oxidizes??? Ugh. There's sooo much information out there that WE AS CONSUMERS ARE CLUELESS ABOUT.3 -
Exactly. Particle size is critical. The large fluffy particles are entirely harmless. Only the small particles clog arteries. The video "Fathead" I mentioned explains this.2
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This video is worth a watch. The inverse relationship between fat and saturated fat intake with cholesterol- in just 3 days - was quite astonishing.
He had people "fat loading" prior to insurance tests so they could bring down their cholesterol and get better rates - on 5000 kcal a day.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLrVWtWmYRR2C8Lc8kn5qAmsSewdmssmmb¶ms=OAFIAVgD&v=jZu52duIqno&mode=NORMAL1
