ohp technical questions

canadianlbs

i'm just so lost on this lift. i have seen the instruction stuff that i can find, and it all seems to answer the same high-level questions and give the same high-level warnings over and over again without going into the fundamental things that i'm unsure about. so my biggest ones:

- grip width. pinkies at outside edge of shoulders, or thumbs? i see people saying 'shoulder width' and it just makes me cranky because 'shoulder width' seems to mean anything up to four inches of play on either side. i realise that the wider the grip the shorter the bar path, so my question isn't really about minimizing the distance i have to push the weight through. i'm just wondering if there's consensus about which one is safest for joints and soft tissue . . . or maybe it's as individual as foot position for squats?

- starting shoulder position and where does the bar actually start? i've seen form that seems to suggest you should pull your shoulderblades back and down and try to hold them that way the whole time, and other form that seems to suggest the lifter opens them out. some people seem almost to roll their shoulders forward and practically rest the bar on their delts.

i guess that's mostly it, really. but especially the starting position and the back/rear shoulder thing. any input from people who can kill this lift would be great.

Fittreelol

The wider your hands on any lift the more strain on your shoulders in general, but a few inches probably wouldn't make a difference. I start with the bar just under my clavicles because that's how I'm proportioned. Thumbs slightly outside my shoulders, and elbows down.

Is it possible for you to video a lift?

canadianlbs

Fittreelol wrote: »

Is it possible for you to video a lift?

no but if you have a good one that would let me see what you're doing with your shoulders and how you're getting set up i'd be a big fan.

Fittreelol

Umm I don't, but I can try to make one next time I ohp!

CHSegl

Try this: http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Press_Videos
Lots of good stuff here. I found the one where he specifically worked with a woman most helpful. Everytime I go to OHP, I think about his comment to "push your chest up and out" (not that there's much there, but still). It made a huge difference to me.
Also, watch how your palm supports the bar; don't let your wrist break back. The bar should be supported by the metacarpals and in a straight line over the forearm. It's not noticeable at lower weights, but as you go higher you'll want all that support. At the top of your lockout, your arms should form a perfect "V" line to your shoulders.

TravelsWithHuckleberry

From Starting Strength:

"The width is such that it places the forearms in a vertical position as seen from the back or front. This grip places your index fingers somewhere between the edge of the knurl and a half-inch out from the knurl."

I just googled to see if I could find the pic from the book, and found this instead. Enjoy!

Learning to Press - Starting Strength

xoxo,
C.

canadianlbs

ooo, lots! i've never seen that ss wiki before; now i feel rich.

thanks.

ephiemarie

I just read through that whole Starting Strength instructional, and (gasp!) I'm actually looking forward to doing my OHP tonight.

Fittreelol

crabada wrote: »

From Starting Strength:

"The width is such that it places the forearms in a vertical position as seen from the back or front. This grip places your index fingers somewhere between the edge of the knurl and a half-inch out from the knurl."

I just googled to see if I could find the pic from the book, and found this instead. Enjoy!

Learning to Press - Starting Strength

xoxo,
C.

The knurling placement can be a little misleading because a: people vary a lot in shoulder width. b: knurling is not standard on random gym bars.

The grip thing CHFay mentioned is important. The cue I tell myself is to hold it similarly to a suicide grip just with your thumb around the bar.

TravelsWithHuckleberry

Fittreelol wrote: »

The knurling placement can be a little misleading because a: people vary a lot in shoulder width. b: knurling is not standard on random gym bars.

Agreed. That's why I was trying to find the picture.

krokador

I might have a video of the grip I use, hold oooon.... Well dang, I don't have one that's uploaded facing forward lol, I'll get on the tomorrow as I hit a few sets after my workout

I use a suicide grip and get the knuckle of my thumb to basically be about in line with the shoulder bone. That's basically my clean grip width, too, so, carry-over and all. My back will be straight but I do "rest" the bar on my chest just below the clavicle before I start (and pause each rep as much as possible).

Hoping that helps!

krokador

Here, the angle isn't too great but it does give you an idea of how I setup (my phone wasn't quite straight, so I look like I'm mighty unbalanced, but it's really not that bad although my right side is a lil tighter and stronger than the left).

I basically jam my thumbs into my shoulders (right where the hard bone-y part is) and make the bar sit in the curve of the palm and barely rest on my chest. The only side view I have is a fail so I won't show that (today was CROWDED!) but I try not to lean back but actually just push my head out of the way. No strain on the lower back that way.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2AhVtSv97LOMW82bDk5dWtWS28/view?usp=sharing

Also excuse the slight dip on the 4th rep (you can see my heels leave the floor), this is why I need to film myself from time to time xD

canadianlbs

ah ha. i've seen most of the videos and they didn't answer the stuff i wanted, although they're still great for other reasons. i love that woman who's in some of them.

but that pdf may have done it at last. i was looking for this:

"Shrug your shoulders up and forward just a little" THANK YOU. this in itself is rife with all kinds of permutations, though it is somewhere to start.

and this.

"Lifting your chest produces tightness in the upper back and in the entire kinetic chain"

THANK YOU. finally, an explanation about how to 'tighten the back' while still keeping 'shoulders forward'. in other words, not rhomboids, not traps, not serratus, not lats. he means the erectors. good grief. is 'erectors' an indelicate word or something?

and finally this

"Lean back slightly by pushing your hips forward." my thing on this is i'd decided to be all purist about it and NOT use hip bounce to get the bar up. i know rippetoe teaches this; i've seen these vids on youtube when i was doing my very initial research. but for my purposes i'm willing to accept a bit of extension there so long as it's just for the purpose of getting my chin out of the way . . . as opposed to the purpose of kipping-with-hips. could be sophistry, but meh.

okay, thanks everyone. i think i'll go back down to 45, or maybe 30, and get to work on these factors and see how it goes. i also appreciated the point about how the shrug at the top isn't just for more juice, but a protective move for the whole shoulder girdle. i can always use info like that.

DawnEmbers

Thanks Krok for the video.

Though... I have to admit my main question when watching was: How tall are you? lol

krokador

DawnEmbers wrote: »

Thanks Krok for the video.

Though... I have to admit my main question when watching was: How tall are you? lol

I have to put my phone on the ground at an angle, it makes me look much taller than I really am lol. I'm just 5'6" xD

DawnEmbers

Well, part of it was compared to the measurements post but yeah, that's still pretty tall in comparison. I almost made it to 5'... almost.

canadianlbs

thanks krok - this must have gone up while i was typing, earlier. admiring your beautifully parallel forearms

i actually found that angle helpful because it lets me really see the relationship between the bar and your bones at the start. i don't care how many times rippetoe says 'bar on front delts', the way i'm built that's kind of a job to set up without compromising something else like forearm angle. and even a fraction of an inch makes so much difference when it comes to shoulders.

MissHolidayGolightly

I think my grip has been too wide Will fix tomorrow.

ScientificExplorerGirl

This is excellent information! Thanks to all for sharing :-)