Heart Rate Training Advice

5512bf

I recently got one of those fancy running watches with a heart rate monitor. I've run for several years just using my phone for mileage ques without a care in the world to heart rate. I'm currently training for a March marathon and decided to take this training a little more serious over the numerous 10k and Half distances that I felt I could do at the drop of a hat based on my current fitness level and mileage of 25-30 per week. I used the monitor for my weekly Saturday pace run of 8 miles this weekend and was somewhat surprised at how high it was on average. It was typically between 170-174. I'm a 41 year old male so based on a 185 max heart rate puts my run at about 92-93% of max heart rate, which might be unsustainable for 26 miles. My pace of 8:45 per mile is what i did my last 10 mile race and half marathon at last year, and my 10k time is typically 8:25-8:30. Ideally I'd like to start the marathon at my 8:45 pace and hold it, but I know I might be overly optimistic being the first marathon.

To be honest I've never really tried to find my true max heart rate so the 185 is based on what a treadmill told me after some interval runs a few months ago. Should I try to find my true max heart rate one day by killing myself running some hard hill repeats or is the 185 a fairly good number based on the treadmill and numerous formulas I've found on the internet? I hate doing hill repeats because it typically takes me several days to recover and don't want to sacrifice my mileage.

Based on everything I can find I should shoot for about 80-85% of max heart rate for race day, which would make my pace about 9:10 per mile based on a 5 mile run this morning. Is it possible to gain enough fitness over the next 3 months to get to 8:45, or should I shoot for the 4 hour mark and slow to 9:09 for my pace runs?

lporter229

Most of your running should be done at less than 80% max HR. I would highly recommend picking up a copy of Matt Fitzgerald's "80/20". As the name implies, he suggests that 80 % of your running should be done at a low intensity. In the book, he explains all of the physiology and psychology behind this way of training. If you spend some time reading through this forum, you will find that most of the experienced marathoners also agree. Building a foundation of slow, easy miles is critical in being able to endure a full marathon. A full marathon is way more than 2 halfs run back to back and your pace for a full will be much slower than a half. The book and the members of this forum have been a great asset in helping me to understand this. I was very skeptical at first and it was tough to slow down, but since starting to train this way, I have shattered most of my race PRs and my paces in each HR zone have increased.

5512bf

I only run long pace runs 2-3 times a month, which are in my training plan. Most of my runs are much slower, depending on the distance anywhere from :30 to 90 seconds slower. My last back to back weekend run was 7 & 14 miles at 9:30 & 9:50, which felt very easy. Last week I did 38 miles, of which 8 were at pace, and 2-3 were in a 7 mile tempo run. On the weeks were my Sat & Sun runs are slow, I'll mix in a Wed tempo run(7-10 miles) or a Tue/Thur interval run or a 4-5 mile 10k pace run. When I've got a Sat pace run I'll do all my weekly mileage in the 9:30-10:00 range. I'm probably in the 80/20 range most weeks. I really have a gut feeling my max HR is higher than 185. I've scheduled a training session with my trainer next week with the goal of finding my true max hr so I can refine my training plan accordingly. I guess my goal was to gain enough fitness to maintain my half pace, which might be unlikely if I was truly running at 92% max HR for my last half. I wish I had a monitor when I ran my 23:03 5k a few months back.

CarsonRuns

ETA: After re-reading my reply, I sound like a snarky @ss. I didn't intend to sound that way, so please try to read that out.

I can say with near 100% certainty that you won't run a marathon at your current HM pace in 3 months.

If you trainer is a runner, please discuss the plan with him/her and do some research about 80/20 training. Also, it would be a good idea to plug your race times into the McMillan calculator to see what it predicts for your marathon time based on your current HM time.

http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/

Just to eliminate the suspense, I've done it for you. Your current HM at a pace of 8:45 is a 1:54. McMillan predicts a 4:00 marathon based on that time, assuming equivalent conditioning. Now, I know a lot of marathon runners and none of them have ever hit the McMillan prediction in their first marathon. I tell everyone to add 15 to 20 minutes to McMillan to get a better idea of a goal for a first marathon. So, you are looking at about a 4:15 marathon, which is a 9:44 pace, a full minute slower than what you were thinking about.

You can't muscle through a marathon. It requires years of highish mileage to be fully prepared to run a marathon and to not bonk at mile 18. It also requires quite a bit of experience to dial in what exactly your marathon pace should be. Going out 10 seconds per mile to fast in a HM isn't going to kill you. You can overcome that. Going out 10 seconds per mile too fast in the marathon and you'll be doing the Bataan Death March the last 10K.

Lastly, I do agree that you MHR is probably higher than 185, so you aren't working as hard as you think you are.

wombat94

Without having any more info than what you posted here, I obviously can't say for certain, but I would bet real money that your max HR is somewhere well above 185. The "rule of thumb" type rules for Max HR based on gender/age are really not very accurate.

For myself, I am a 45 YO male and based on the old 220-age, but MaxHR would be 175... I can (and do) go well above that on any run that is anywhere near 5K pace for me... and I have SUSTAINED a HR of 175 for over an hour straight in a 10 mile race.

My current estimate for my true max HR is somewhere above 190 - probably closer to 200 or more.

I think you are on the right track to try to find your max HR through experimentation with your new equipment. I'd say for the next month or so - and even through your next race - just gather data and then look at the trend of your HR graph - see how it correlates to the feel of effort in each run.

Once you have a better idea of what your actual maxHR is you can then start to consider HR-based training plans.