What gives?

sweetsorrow18

So I know I've had PCOS related symptoms for about 8 years now - mainly I deal with weight gain/difficulty losing weight, no periods on my own (BC for about 3 years, past 2 years I've discontinued it), mild facial hair and mood swings.

I decided to have all my blood work and ultrasounds done July 2014 after dropping around 20 pounds (I have since gained 5-7 back) to pinpoint exactly where I'm going wrong. Anyway here are the results:

Pelvic ultrasound = clean (never had any cystic ovaries)
Blood work = clean (sugars normal, hormones normal)

The doctor says sometimes PCOS can happen without having all the three criteria's met (the three being cystic ovaries, hormonal imbalance and no periods). I only meet the one.

I refuse to go on birth control due to the depression and mood swings it caused me however have been given Provera to induce my period every 3 months which I'm fine with but seriously what gives!?

Anyone have any insight - i seriously thought it was my hormones out of whack but its all normal...is it simply being overweight? (I am approximately 7 pounds from a normal BMI, which I don't think is terrible). I eat pretty health (mostly low carb/high protein and little sugar) and workout 4-5 times per week.

Dragonwolf

Define "normal." Also, did they do a fasting insulin test? This is different from the glucose test. You can have abnormal insulin and normal glucose.

PCOS is a syndrome, so it by definition is a "constellation of symptoms." That means you may or may not have any given one. Like you, I don't actually have cysts on my ovaries.

Additionally, LabCorp says my insulin level is "normal," but it's borderline high and very obviously too high for my body (I've been able to lose weight as soon as I get it down below a certain threshold). So, like I said, "define normal." If any of your numbers are near the border of the range, consider talking to your doctor about trying to bring them more toward the middle of the range and see if that makes a difference.

You might also want to look into general hormonal balancing or PCOS-helping things, like Vitex or Inositol. These help balance out your hormones in general, even if the tests say things are "normal." With either of these, you may be able to stop the Provera (I didn't have regular periods for a few years, and a week after I started Inositol, I got my period, and it's been regular ever since, except a skip in December which I chalk up to holiday stress).

sweetsorrow18

Dragonwolf wrote: »

Define "normal." Also, did they do a fasting insulin test? This is different from the glucose test. You can have abnormal insulin and normal glucose.

PCOS is a syndrome, so it by definition is a "constellation of symptoms." That means you may or may not have any given one. Like you, I don't actually have cysts on my ovaries.

Additionally, LabCorp says my insulin level is "normal," but it's borderline high and very obviously too high for my body (I've been able to lose weight as soon as I get it down below a certain threshold). So, like I said, "define normal." If any of your numbers are near the border of the range, consider talking to your doctor about trying to bring them more toward the middle of the range and see if that makes a difference.

You might also want to look into general hormonal balancing or PCOS-helping things, like Vitex or Inositol. These help balance out your hormones in general, even if the tests say things are "normal." With either of these, you may be able to stop the Provera (I didn't have regular periods for a few years, and a week after I started Inositol, I got my period, and it's been regular ever since, except a skip in December which I chalk up to holiday stress).

Thanks for the reply!

I'm not sure if it was a fasting insulin test as I don't recall fasting prior to doing the blood test however on my chart is says "Fasting Blood Sugar = 4.6" and the normal range listed beside that is 3.6-6.0 so I'd say I'm right in the middle there. Should I go back and get another fasting insulin test done?

I have taken D-chiro-inositol from Chiral Balance for approximately 3 months and it did not help get my period at all, unfortunately. It was also quite expensive too. I wonder if regular Inositol would help? I worry about Vitex as I've read that a side effect can be depression if you've had depression in the past - which I did have (along with anxiety and panic attacks); makes me less inclined to go on the Vitex but Inositol again might be worth a shot. Any other natural alternatives you suggest?

As a past history, along with the D-chiro-inositol, I have also tried chinese herbal medication (not much help with periods, helps with facial hair though), I've taken cinnamon before and after meals to help with blood sugar spikes (I stopped it now), I'm currently taking 4000 IU daily of vitamin D, fish oil, magnesium, B12, and calcium+zinc supplements (as I am off dairy).

A_Dabauer

sweetsorrow18 wrote: »

I have taken D-chiro-inositol from Chiral Balance for approximately 3 months and it did not help get my period at all, unfortunately. It was also quite expensive too. I wonder if regular Inositol would help? I worry about Vitex as I've read that a side effect can be depression if you've had depression in the past - which I did have (along with anxiety and panic attacks); makes me less inclined to go on the Vitex but Inositol again might be worth a shot. Any other natural alternatives you suggest?

I too have issues with depression, anxiety and panic attacks. For me (everyone is different) my estrogen dominance exasperates those issues. I take I take Estrosmart Plus with Vitex, which has reduced a lot of my estrogen dominance issues. It hasn't cured my anxiety, but it certainly hasn't made ur worse either. Plus I'm cycling normally (every 28 days on it) which is a first for me.

So you may want to try it and see how you react. Of course you need to weigh the risk reward factor in that decision.

Good luck!

KnitOrMiss

Also, taking too much fish oil, Omega-3's, without a balance of Omega-6's (you don't want too much of one or the other) can throw your female stuff all out of balance. Even without PCOS. But having PCOS makes us far more susceptible to all the weird possibilities.

But I can tell you this... No matter what your bloodwork says, if you are not having periods without medical intervention, your hormones are not OK. There are so many some docs don't check. I was treated for progesterone deficiency for years, but it never helped because I was in adrenal fatigue, and my adrenals were stealing all the progesterone I was providing and converting it for their own use. From what I was made to understand, any hormone can steal from another and convert it for it's own use, so it is all about what is the boss hormone in your body. But I understand being aware of any problems that exacerbate potential depression - but honestly, that could be part of your PCOS as well... So treating the other stuff could make that resolve too....or at least lessen...

I used to have cysts - badly, but when my now 14-year old daughter started having her period, her hormones were so strong that she "reset" me. I had been getting progressively worse and worse with frequency and flow...but after that, it went back to basics again. It was such a shock.

Another thing, there are more than one type of birth control. Some are estrogen primary (which sounds like it would mess you up), some are progesterone, some are a balance, and I think there are even other ones, too, but I'm not as familiar... I had to get back on BCP and level out my thyroid (which only in the last couple years after I finally lost some weight - getting divorced helped there so much! Long story that... But only after I lost my weight did my thyroid problems show up in bloodwork, and then only barely, and then also only because my doc had a ten year history to show that while my level wasn't that bad, it was BAD for me, because my normal was much much higher...

So as Dragonwolf said, normal is ... well, not. At least not for us! If you don't feel right, some endocrinologists will treat the symptom because they know not everything shows up on blood screen.

And if you tests on "blood sugar" said that, they did not test your insulin. It is not a common test. And if you didn't fast (meaning not eat after midnight for an early test - or basically not eating or drinking anything 8 hours before the test), those results don't mean anything anyway, because the point of reference is skewed.

So it sounds like you need to make sure you and your doctor are in agreement for plan of attack, get a round up of all your tests, get some supplements (Dragonwolf and Alliwan can tell you tons more about Inositol and how they use it and yes, they get the less expensive kind, though a combo of both types is more effective, to my understanding). Anyway, sounds like you have a lot of work ahead of you to figure out your plan... Best of luck...and check in often. Getting this stuff figured out could make anyone insane!!!

Dragonwolf

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

Also, taking too much fish oil, Omega-3's, without a balance of Omega-6's (you don't want too much of one or the other) can throw your female stuff all out of balance. Even without PCOS. But having PCOS makes us far more susceptible to all the weird possibilities.

But I can tell you this... No matter what your bloodwork says, if you are not having periods without medical intervention, your hormones are not OK. There are so many some docs don't check. I was treated for progesterone deficiency for years, but it never helped because I was in adrenal fatigue, and my adrenals were stealing all the progesterone I was providing and converting it for their own use. From what I was made to understand, any hormone can steal from another and convert it for it's own use, so it is all about what is the boss hormone in your body. But I understand being aware of any problems that exacerbate potential depression - but honestly, that could be part of your PCOS as well... So treating the other stuff could make that resolve too....or at least lessen...

I used to have cysts - badly, but when my now 14-year old daughter started having her period, her hormones were so strong that she "reset" me. I had been getting progressively worse and worse with frequency and flow...but after that, it went back to basics again. It was such a shock.

Another thing, there are more than one type of birth control. Some are estrogen primary (which sounds like it would mess you up), some are progesterone, some are a balance, and I think there are even other ones, too, but I'm not as familiar... I had to get back on BCP and level out my thyroid (which only in the last couple years after I finally lost some weight - getting divorced helped there so much! Long story that... But only after I lost my weight did my thyroid problems show up in bloodwork, and then only barely, and then also only because my doc had a ten year history to show that while my level wasn't that bad, it was BAD for me, because my normal was much much higher...

So as Dragonwolf said, normal is ... well, not. At least not for us! If you don't feel right, some endocrinologists will treat the symptom because they know not everything shows up on blood screen.

And if you tests on "blood sugar" said that, they did not test your insulin. It is not a common test. And if you didn't fast (meaning not eat after midnight for an early test - or basically not eating or drinking anything 8 hours before the test), those results don't mean anything anyway, because the point of reference is skewed.

So it sounds like you need to make sure you and your doctor are in agreement for plan of attack, get a round up of all your tests, get some supplements (Dragonwolf and Alliwan can tell you tons more about Inositol and how they use it and yes, they get the less expensive kind, though a combo of both types is more effective, to my understanding). Anyway, sounds like you have a lot of work ahead of you to figure out your plan... Best of luck...and check in often. Getting this stuff figured out could make anyone insane!!!

Unless your only source of fat is fish oil, it's really, really hard to skew your Omega-3:6 balance that far in favor of Omega-3. Eat a handful of almonds and you've already thrown it way back in favor of Omega-6. 1:1 is considered "ideal," while 1:2 n-3:n-6 is the more pragmatic goal, and unless you love fish to the point that you eat it to the exclusion of just about everything else, you have to put forth effort to get anywhere near that ratio in modern society (and its love affair with Omega-6 heavy oils).

But yeah, OP, it sounds like they didn't test fasting insulin. Not using fasting numbers (the test should note whether it was fasting or not), also doesn't provide very accurate numbers, especially for glucose and insulin, which are dependent on the food you ate and when you last ate it.

Regarding the Inositol, DCI works best when taken with Myo-Inositol (what you referred to as "regular"). Myo is also quite a bit cheaper. Myo can work on its own, though requires a higher dose than when taken in conjunction with DCI. Additionally, they both work best in conjunction with folate (so take it with breakfast and eat some eggs ). Try adding a gram or two of Myo with the DCI and see how that works for you.

Also, you can get plenty of calcium without dairy and without supplements, so you might want to look at your intake and see if you really need the supplement and aren't taking it just because you assume you need it because you don't drink milk.

Finally, I've found that a low carb, high fat (LCHF) diet helps tremendously with just about everything. I can eat a sane amount of food and not really worry about gaining weight (I'm still working out the "losing" part, but I'm a very hard loser, I've found), I have fewer mood swings, less depression, more energy, clearer skin, the list goes on. I recommend looking into it and trying it for a month (there are some "gotchas," like the fact that there's a 1-2 week transition period where things may get worse before they get better, but it's a known thing and there are things you can do to mitigate it and get through that, so it's a good idea to not just dive in head-first).

KnitOrMiss

Starting back full on LCHF and worried about the carb flu stuff. You mentioned ways to mitigate that and get through it. so please please please pass this info on for mu sanity! Thanks in advance.

sweetsorrow18

Thank you ALL for all the amazing info!

As the title of this post suggests - guess who decided to visit me today!

Yup - Aunty Flo with her red dress in all its glory.

So really...WHAT GIVES!?.

Dragonwolf wrote: »

Finally, I've found that a low carb, high fat (LCHF) diet helps tremendously with just about everything. I can eat a sane amount of food and not really worry about gaining weight (I'm still working out the "losing" part, but I'm a very hard loser, I've found), I have fewer mood swings, less depression, more energy, clearer skin, the list goes on. I recommend looking into it and trying it for a month (there are some "gotchas," like the fact that there's a 1-2 week transition period where things may get worse before they get better, but it's a known thing and there are things you can do to mitigate it and get through that, so it's a good idea to not just dive in head-first).

So I wonder if this might have triggered my period today - I've been consciously trying to eat low carb/high fat for about a week. Too soon for me to think it would induce a period but maybe not? I haven't changed anything else except upped my workouts from 3x/week to 5 but really, it's only an added 40 mins to my week. Nothing drastic.

I will look into taking Myo-inositol after this cycle ends and if a new one does not begin ( I have no hopes of this being a consistent thing since it's happened to me before lol). So I know I need something to "regulate" aunty flo's visits. I do eat a lot of dairy (mainly cheese and greek yogurt) - I should add I only take the calcium supplement about 2-3x week sporadically.

A_Dabauer wrote: »

I too have issues with depression, anxiety and panic attacks. For me (everyone is different) my estrogen dominance exasperates those issues. I take I take Estrosmart Plus with Vitex, which has reduced a lot of my estrogen dominance issues. It hasn't cured my anxiety, but it certainly hasn't made ur worse either. Plus I'm cycling normally (every 28 days on it) which is a first for me.

So you may want to try it and see how you react. Of course you need to weigh the risk reward factor in that decision.
Good luck!

I will look into Vitex again, I'm too afraid of the depression/anxiety risks as I am currently going through some mild depression from external circumstances. At this point, I think I want to see a therapist to sort out some other issues before I get on the Vitex but thanks for the insight!

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

But I can tell you this... No matter what your bloodwork says, if you are not having periods without medical intervention, your hormones are not OK. There are so many some docs don't check. I was treated for progesterone deficiency for years, but it never helped because I was in adrenal fatigue, and my adrenals were stealing all the progesterone I was providing and converting it for their own use. From what I was made to understand, any hormone can steal from another and convert it for it's own use, so it is all about what is the boss hormone in your body. But I understand being aware of any problems that exacerbate potential depression - but honestly, that could be part of your PCOS as well... So treating the other stuff could make that resolve too....or at least lessen...

So it sounds like you need to make sure you and your doctor are in agreement for plan of attack, get a round up of all your tests, get some supplements (Dragonwolf and Alliwan can tell you tons more about Inositol and how they use it and yes, they get the less expensive kind, though a combo of both types is more effective, to my understanding). Anyway, sounds like you have a lot of work ahead of you to figure out your plan... Best of luck...and check in often. Getting this stuff figured out could make anyone insane!!!

Yes, I agree. I think I need to visit an endocrinologist after my cycle, get a proper insulin test done and really see if I may be insulin resistance. It's definitely frustrating but glad to know there are such knowledgable and helpful ladies in here!!