Starting Strength Book Club (SSBC) - Chapter 3: The Press
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fothers365 wrote: »I am watching this thread with interest for helpful hints. I am sure some form changes would help my OHP (l suck!).
The book costs a fortune in the UK and I never get on that well with reference books on the kindle, I prefer a hard copy to be able to flick through more easily. Maybe for my birthday
I bought mine from Amazon in the US and had it sent over. That was two or three years ago, and it worked cheaper doing it that way than trying to buy from the UK.
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Forgot to mention that I tried a thumbless grip on the OHP the other day and I liked it. Felt like I had more power pushing the bar up.0
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Doesn't the book say a thumbless grip is only for the squat? Edit: found the bit I was thinking of here:
The thumbless grip is never used when pressing, not because of the danger – which is obviously not there when the bar can be dropped to the floor. Rather, the thumbs-around grip permits the “squeeze” in the forearms that increases the tightness of the muscles, making the drive from the start position more efficient and increasing motor unit recruitment throughout the arms and upper body. Except for the squat, there is no thumbless grip in barbell training.
Rippetoe, Mark (2012-01-13). Starting Strength (Kindle Locations 2132-2135). The Aasgaard Company. Kindle Edition.
Also this video here
I've been trying to work on my hand position in press and bench press, because I'm not sure I had it right. There's a bit at the start of this Jonathon Sullivan ("Sully") video here which explains it well, I think.0 -
Rippetoe does say that but other resources say otherwise. I tried thumbless and liked it. I seem to have no trouble with the forearm squeeze. I seem to do it naturally from practicing yoga. When you're on all fours, in downward dog, in a handstand, or any position where you're holding yourself up with your arms, squeezing your arms and rotating them internally takes the pressure off the wrists and shoulders. Translates to OHP.0
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Ah, I see. I'd noticed that other people recommend thumbless - was just posting the above because it's the book discussion thread, and I thought you meant that the book recommended it. Do you still use the Starting Strength hand position if you're using thumbless?
I really struggle with this lift, above all others!
(Also, is there a bench press thread? I've been re-reading that chapter).0 -
Yes everything is the same. There's a video in the OHP form resources thread back in the group that has a very detailed breakdown of the lift. Don't beat yourself up - it's one of the most difficult lifts for women and a lot of us have trouble with it.
As for the bench chapter, there is no thread yet but please start one if you wish. I and others will definitely join in!0 -
So glad I found this thread. My OHP sucks. Always heard about this book but never bought it...YET. Anywho I tried to OHP 55 pounds on monday and pulled a muscle on my neck. maybe i will re start with just the bar and watch marks video before trying tomorrow.
Ladies do NOT stop posting I am reading everything you're putting down I will update you tomorrow after soaking up all the info you guys just gave me 0 -
Ladies do NOT stop posting I am reading everything you're putting down
well, on that note . . .
for context if you haven't heard me grumbling yet, i just found out last weekend that i have (had?) an internal impingement in my left shoulder. i took most of last week off and this is my first week back, plus the first serious ohp workout since then.
so, allowing for the fact that i'm rested and nothing is angry on the left side and all that, here is what i've found out.
- triceps-to-lats was my this-time lightbulb. i've always been fixated on rippetoe's thing about 'bring your shoulders up and forward a bit' to make your front delts into a bit of a platform, until now. but i must have been over-understanding and over-following it. being told by the physio that i actually need to keep my collarbones pulled a little back and tilted a little upwards in order to give my ac joint more room changed all of that by complete accident. i was just thinking about trying not to saw through my own left deltoid with my own bones, when i suddenly realised i could have been holding a brick in each armpit and they would have been safe.
just that one little thing plus the tighter trapezius muscles holding my shoulderblades stable - they isolated and locked everything in my entire upper back from the shoulderblades up, and when i launched the bar it went up like a bird. what i'm thinking here is: pulling all of that stuff tight felt like it was concentrating all my strength into that one little segment of me. it was like giving myself an artificial 'floor' to push off against that was much much closer to the joints doing the work than the real floor is. somewhere around the zone of my diaphragm. so i may take all of this back again next time around, or it may be the rest that i've had. but tonight i felt fiercely strong. 45lbs was easy. i cleaned the bar at the start of each set, but once i had it up there i was just repping it out for the first four or five sets ( i failed one set, so there was an extra ;-))
- other point is: idk if this is normal or not but i can lock that bar out like nobody's business once it's up there. it almost bounces, my elbows kick in so hard. but i don't think i've been shrugging upwards enough, so i was trying to get that done as well. what i found was that when i do shrug, the whole 'slam torso under bar' things starts to come into focus for me in a whole extra way.
- i still haven't figured out how to do the hip-bounce he talks about to start it all off. i just stand still and shove the bar up, so it has to curve itself to get round my face. i'm not coordinated enough or too distractible or something, so never gotten the bounce part of it right. is anyone able to do this without simultaneously losing everything about their upper-body setup?0 -
I just ordered this book from amazon last week and can't wait until it arrives (I am in Australia and it's being shipped from US).
Have been finding ohp the toughest so hoping the book and these threads will help
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Ok so I have to update from this mornings session. My squat improved dramatically by listening to Mark's advice. Butt up in the air and driving the hip up. I was doing that before but also like he said concentrating too much on my back when i needed to focus on the hips.
Also the OHP damn...just damn. LOL. If I had only known that how I was gripping the bar was so incorrect I would have stopped sooner. I felt the workout where it was supposed to be felt. Also squeezed my armpits and back muscles. It was alot easier. BUT I was still clumsy and focusing on these knew techniques I wasn't paying attention to where I was gripping the bar (it was a bit uneven tilting to my left.)
Also I can't figure out his hip driving thing either. Do I hump before or after I throw the bar in the air ?
I want to add that even though my lifts have improved I'm still having a bit of knee pain and can still feel that my whole body isn't locked" and is still loose. But i am learning.0 -
Also I can't figure out his hip driving thing either. Do I hump before or after I throw the bar in the air ?
def before. i've picked up that much; i just can't seem to get to where it doesn't feel like more work and confusion than just staying planted and doing the thing. but i get the idea. you want to get a kind of slingshot effect going on through all the muscles down the front of your body - anterior chain, i guess
and you're supposed to use the release of that tension to launch the bar up.
i have gotten it right occasionally, and i definitely felt the bar bounce. there's a nano-second as your body comes back to its original position where the bar feels like it has no weight at all. that's the freefall window you're supposed to catch and incorporate as you push the bar up.
but most of the time i just fear that hip-bounce. i think what scares me off is it relies so heavily on keeping the core and quads really really tight, because if you (me) let that slip for a second then suddenly i'm hanging out there with my lower back overextended all over the place, and a big extra weight leaning downwards on it from above.0 -
ya I thought it was supposed to be before. It just feels very awkward for me. But there is always next time. And I have a hard time keeping my lower body tight because im so focused on my upper bodycanadianlbs wrote: »Also I can't figure out his hip driving thing either. Do I hump before or after I throw the bar in the air ?
def before. i've picked up that much; i just can't seem to get to where it doesn't feel like more work and confusion than just staying planted and doing the thing. but i get the idea. you want to get a kind of slingshot effect going on through all the muscles down the front of your body - anterior chain, i guess and you're supposed to use the release of that tension to launch the bar up.
i have gotten it right occasionally, and i definitely felt the bar bounce. there's a nano-second as your body comes back to its original position where the bar feels like it has no weight at all. that's the freefall window you're supposed to catch and incorporate as you push the bar up.
but most of the time i just fear that hip-bounce. i think what scares me off is it relies so heavily on keeping the core and quads really really tight, because if you (me) let that slip for a second then suddenly i'm hanging out there with my lower back overextended all over the place, and a big extra weight leaning downwards on it from above.
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hey also do you guys own the 3rd edition to the book? Does anyone know if it even matters what edition I own?0
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I have the 3rd most recent edition. He says in the intro that the 3rd edition has a lot of updated information so I would get it if possible.0
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I don't know if this is right, but I start the hip thing just before the bar movement, then complete it as I push the bar up. I think the slight push forward of your hips puts your upper body at a slight angle so it's easier get the bar past your head.
I sometimes forget to shrug at the top. I'm just so relieved to have got the bar up there, never mind doing anything else! I really need to build that habit ... there's a good video where he shows how it protects your shoulders.
I have to say that this lift is extraordinary hard for me, much more than the others. I started the programme three years ago (well, a modified version as I really struggled with the power cleans - still trying to get them right now, and really looking forward to discussing that chapter!). I've had long breaks, but have had three attempts at progressing over several months. Even with microloading (and trying variations such as dumbbell press, push press, etc.) I haven't managed to move on by any significant amount. I keep doing it because I presume it's good for me, but I'm always astounded by my lack of progress!0 -
how cool is this?
. . . actually, i don't know yet as i just started it. but still i can't see how this could be bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdEw3SuaK4c 0 -
actually, that looks terrifying. i'm still liking tommy suggs and getting some thoughts out of this though. it's nice to see that hip-bounce demonstrated so many times.0
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Thanks for the video. It's a great breakdown of the hip drive part. It's so difficult to read about it and visualize it and implement it. They lean back more, drive it up with a lot more power, and do the movement a lot quicker than I have been doing. His hand positioning looks more like the top of a front squat with the wrists back and elbows forward like that. I definitely have some work to do. Wish today was OHP day. Never thought I'd say that...
P.S. I love Tommy's gym clothing. I need to go to the trading post immediately.0 -
it's also got a double bounce in it, did you see that? i always thought it was one bounce, but tommy's definitely talking like you actually get yourself under the bar by putting your hips back where they came from in front, and then locking out. idk if that's one of those olympic-specific variations or what, but i never saw anything about it in ss.
my back's a few different kinds of unhappy right now so i'd be too chicken to try any of this. it kind of looks liek the sort of thing that is probably fine if you do it right but could go all kinds of wrong for me if i don't. and there wasn't enough in there to help me know which would be wrong and which would be right so i think now probably isn't the time.
still. the driving up off the front delts got my interest. i'm not sure what i was doing before but i have a feeling iit wasn't quite that.0 -
i like rippetoe's resident guinea pig. of course, half the world is called brian but i'm pretty sure that's the same kid who was part of his squat-grip session. he does definitely have his elbows out in front of the bar.
what i took away from this is that the setup for the drive is nothing like i'd been thinking it was. all this time i'd been thinking it was a fast-front-then-fast-back thing- a bounce in both directions. what suggs is showing is a bit of a revelation to me.
the other difference from [what i got out of ] ss is the method of getting under the bar. rippetoe says drive it up and as soon as it passes your forehead 'slam your torso' under it. if you watch what this guy is doing and what suggs is coaching, he actually puts his hips under the bar first, as the start of a second bounch. and then he re-bounces to push the bar the rest of the way and get his shoulders underneath it. so it's a different body part, and it's also slow in the suggs form, where the the ss one is fast.
i also really like suggs poking rip in the groinal zone at around 9:40 for a change. 0
