Living guilt free

jrnguyen

I've seen a lot of posts lately about people feeling like failures because they had a bad day/week/month. I've noticed this seems to be a common trend with WLS patients. Everything about our lives post surgery is "programmed". Not losing weight? Check your program! Feeling rundown? Check your program! Left foot fell off? Check your program!

Well I'm done with programming. Skinny people don't live on a program. They live life in a healthy way, and that doesn't involve checking every calorie in or out every day of their lives. Neither should I.

Today I ate mindlessly and I didn't log a single thing. Tomorrow is game day, and I will do the same. And you know what? THAT'S OKAY. Because today I also ran a 5k straight for the first time in my life. 4 months ago I got winded standing. I am in the best shape of my life, and one weekend will not undo 80 lbs of hard earned weight loss. I am living a lifestyle, not a program, and that is how I am going to ensure my own success in this journey.

A bad day, or even a bad year, does not mean we failed. Tomorrow is a new day!

rscpjim

I have to admit I like your spunk! lol.
You are absolutely right in many areas. You cannot think of it as a program or a diet or what ever. It is however a lifestyle and or a new way of life. My Surgeon called it my new job since I told him I had retired. I used to make the same argument you just did that one meal or one day does not a diet break. And that is true! However, and I had to caution myself when I had a string of those days and they where tied onto another string of those days and then months well you get the picture. I gained all of it back and then some.
For me right now I am very conscious as I just had my sleeve surgery 4 weeks ago. But when I am back down into my fighting wieght I will probably be right where your at with the whole Idea of not living life.
My Dad after his surgery told me this. You know I used to live to eat now, I eat to live!
Makes all the sense in the world to me now.
He is 10 years out from his surgery and has gained a bunch of it back. he is pushing 75 and well he can do what ever he darn well pleases. I did tell him he had to be back in Kayak shape as I was nearing the weight I could get back in mine.
Ok enough story here. Just wante to say you gave me a little giggle this morning and saw so much of myself in that post..lol
and at the same time I said everything in moderation!

Jim!

murphyraven

How far into your journey are you? I think in the beginning it is important to follow your program. It teaches you important habits and helps you fully recover and lose the weight. That said I don't think you should stress over an occasional treat or being 100% compliant to the program all of the time. We need to find our own way to use the tool.

I am only 11 days post op so I try to follow the program as closely as possible. As much as I think I am ready for solid food I am not going to take the chance and maybe get sick. That said. I have had a single chocolate truffle two separate times over the last week as a treat. And I don't feel guilty about it at all.

I don't plan to track my food intake using MFP for the rest of my life. Once I have stabilized and am in maintenance I figure I will have a good handle on how much protein is in foods and know what I need to eat daily. I don't want to have to micromanage my eating in fear of gaining a pound or two. But I always know if I feel out of control I can come back and refocus on my nutrient numbers if needed.

Thaeda

jrnguyen wrote: »

I've seen a lot of posts lately about people feeling like failures because they had a bad day/week/month. I've noticed this seems to be a common trend with WLS patients. Everything about our lives post surgery is "programmed". Not losing weight? Check your program! Feeling rundown? Check your program! Left foot fell off? Check your program!

Loved this!! So funny-- and true-- I hear you. And I am also one of the "programmers".

I have a very strong desire to live "free" from counting and "program" and such-- but I have yet to break loose. Primarily because I know I have a lousy track record when it comes to doing anything in moderation-- I am afraid and that fear keeps me in the "diet/program- fall off the wagon- diet" cycle. I am afraid if I eat what I want I will not make healthy choices ( I love butter, chocolate, cheese, bacon, potato chips, and cake!) and I will gain weight. I am afraid I will not exercise enough. Fear runs the show-- and honestly, it is not how I want to live. At the same time, I do not yet have the courage to "color outside the lines" (except for my binges, of course) and live "off program". Hoping to get there one day.

pawoodhull

I am 3.5 years out. I have not reached goal, yet. I probably should have reached goal before now and I'm sure if you were to look at my history (food/exercise) you could tell me why I haven't reached goal. But here's wht I found this past holiday season. I was eating mindlessly, what I wanted, when I wanted and I gained 10 pounds. Yes I logged it and yes I stayed within calories, but not water or protein. I am not, I never have been and I never will be a skinny person. I cannot eat the way they do. I am 164 pounds less than when I started this, I am healthier now than I have been since my teens, I look and feel 100 times better than I did 3.5 years ago, BUT, I will always, for the rest of my life, have to count my calories, plan my meals to get in enough protein and force myself to exercise. What you are suggesting may work for you. It may work for a lot of people. But my 10 pound gain proved to me that it will not work for me. Can I losen the reigns for a meal out or a vacation. Sure. But my day of going off plan, turned into 6 weeks and before I knew it I regained 10 pounds. Obviously I can't do the "everything in moderation" thing.

Again, this may work for you but please be careful. Let's not give false hope. Some of us will never be able to live "off program" without regaining.

loriloftness

jrnguyen wrote: »

Well I'm done with programming. Skinny people don't live on a program. They live life in a healthy way, and that doesn't involve checking every calorie in or out every day of their lives. Neither should I.

My problem is that I don't think like a skinny person. There may be a day when I do, but its not now. Left on its own, my brain still thinks it wants to eat the unhealthy things and it wants to eat them in massive quantities. If you are a person who can voluntarily moderate, you can make choices and have your choices work the way they should. I'm not there and I need to plan and I need to keep track/account for what I put in my mouth. But, I don't find it to be a burden or a hassle-- it's just as much a tool for helping me live the way I want to as having the surgery was. Again, maybe I will be there some day, but not yet.

mfpdevotee

exactly... thats the kind of thinking that got me here in the first place.. eating exactly what i wanted, how much I wanted, when i wanted for years on end... im only 6 weeks out and i dont think I've earned the right! although i did freak out last night from sugar and had a hot cocoa and went way over my allotment for 0z of protein for the day.. but this morning i got up, ate my vitamins and protein drink and got my walk in because i felt myself slipping from the plan.

i think the same way you do and at -80 lbs and finished a 5k i think i would do the same thing! congrats!

jrnguyen

At no point in my post did I suggest that anyone else should think the way I do. I was simply stating that I've seen a lot of people posting lately that they are failures because of a few bad days. My point is that NO ONE is a failure. Regardless of how you choose to "live the plan", we all have horrible days. Those horrible days don't define us, and I felt like maybe other people like me may want to see a post more on the positive side.

Sociologist2013

I agree! I dont limit any foods except those that dont agree with me. I do log everything though, the good, bad, and ugly. I refuse to get into the "diet" or forbidden mindset, thats one of the things that got me to 219#.

Thaeda

Sociologist2013 wrote: »

I agree! I dont limit any foods except those that dont agree with me. I do log everything though, the good, bad, and ugly. I refuse to get into the "diet" or forbidden mindset, thats one of the things that got me to 219#.

This is where I struggle-- because if I am not "dieting", I am afraid I will not lose weight. If I eat what I want, when I want-- even mindfully-- really paying attention to hunger/fullness, I am just too scared I will start gaining. I hate dieting-- I really do, but it feels so much safer than trusting myself. It is kind of embarrassing to say... I really WANT to trust myself-- but I don't.

2BeHappy2

I get what OP is saying, we learned that to get our pants on we had to put 1 leg in at a time.
Isnt all this pre-op and then months following post-op suppose to be teaching us so that we can lead a detached life of not having to count or check in?
Isnt that the freedom we're looking for??
The every day choices that we make "programming" should be no different than the choices people make who live free of all that!
Is it seeing your total cals or exercise in your day that gives you that warm feeling?
I mean can you not still do all those things w/out a "#" confirmation?
At some point Id like for #'s to not run my life, to come and go and be pleased with the knowledge of things learned!
When you get out of bed, do you not remember your daily routine?
Your parent dont call to say "remember to potty, wash up, brush your teeth" similar to we know (after a period of time) about good and not so good foods.
We know about exercising and eating certain things (protein 1st, other things in moderation) and always keep hydrated.
Shouldn't we get a grip on the reigns and direct our lives where we know it should be w/out being hounded by #'s?
That's freedom!!

Thaeda

2BeHappy2 wrote: »

I get what OP is saying, we learned that to get our pants on we had to put 1 leg in at a time.
Isnt all this pre-op and then months following post-op suppose to be teaching us so that we can lead a detached life of not having to count or check in?
Isnt that the freedom we're looking for??
The every day choices that we make "programming" should be no different than the choices people make who live free of all that!

For me, I do not make the healthy choices naturally. It takes effort to choose eggs instead of a donut. It takes effort to eat veggies when I want chocolate pudding. It takes effort to go and work out when I would rather sit on the couch. People talk about avoiding the word "diet" and instead use "lifestyle change"-- well, my problem is my "lifestyle" is not a healthy one! I am choosing to adopt a healthy lifestyle because I want to keep losing and eventually to avoid regain-- but very few of the things I need to do to reach my goals come without a significant amount of forethought and effort.

bikrchk

During my losing phase and the first 6 months of maintenance I logged everything, (mostly to make sure I understood what 80g of protein looked like for me). I've never restricted carbs except by volume which is not a choice anymore. I ate protein first, (still do) and other than that pretty much eat what I like in very small quantities. For me, a "diet" mentality takes me to a cycle of falling short, guilt, binging or over eating, rinse, repeat. Diets had never worked for me long term so why would I try to keep doing someting that doesn't work? What works at least for me is maintaining good habits, exercise, protein first, never over eating. The only time I log anything other than my weekly weight is if I begin to creep oustide my maintenance zone. I log for a while which encourages me to cut back on the junk, and that takes care of those few pounds so I'm back where I belong in a week or two. It's working for me and I never feel like there's something I can't have therefore there is no guilt and no failure. I think this is how fit people live... In balance, so this is how I'm making it work.

ac7nj

Thaeda wrote: »

Sociologist2013 wrote: »

I agree! I dont limit any foods except those that dont agree with me. I do log everything though, the good, bad, and ugly. I refuse to get into the "diet" or forbidden mindset, thats one of the things that got me to 219#.

This is where I struggle-- because if I am not "dieting", I am afraid I will not lose weight. If I eat what I want, when I want-- even mindfully-- really paying attention to hunger/fullness, I am just too scared I will start gaining. I hate dieting-- I really do, but it feels so much safer than trusting myself. It is kind of embarrassing to say... I really WANT to trust myself-- but I don't.

Thaeda,
I'm with you until I reach maintenance and establish the new lifestyle, this system works. If what I was doing before surgery worked I wouldn't be here.
I hope after enough time we will do things naturally, and not need to be so regimented.

Randy

lorilbuckner1

jrnguyen wrote: »

My point is that NO ONE is a failure. Regardless of how you choose to "live the plan", we all have horrible days. Those horrible days don't define us, and I felt like maybe other people like me may want to see a post more on the positive side.

I totally agree! We sometimes get caught up in berating ourselves for mistakes and horrible days that we end up giving up. It may be for just that day or possibly longer. I personally love to have a reminder that Horrible Days to do not define us!

I am a structure person. I need to log everything or I find myself somewhere out there. I'm hoping that once I get through the surgery and maintenance phase I will be able to lighten up a bit. I do not want to live my life defining everyday by my protein and carb count. I look forward to those free days! I know that the structure of the program will always be there for me if I need to regroup. We all have to do what works for us.

Personally I am very happy for you! 80 pounds down and running a 5K is fantastic! You are obviously taking your health very seriously and doing a great job! I think some may have misunderstood thinking you were scoffing at the structure and program. I don't think that was the case. Keep posting the positive side of post surgery life! Being in the 14 day pre op stage I could use some positive highlights of my future!! Thanks for the inspiration! In the mean time I will stay tied to my food log as a tool to reach my goals. Yippee!! LOL

pawoodhull

I think there is a huge difference between guilt and being honest and accountable with yourself. Guilt is a usless emotion in this journey. I agree that a day of bad eating is a blip and not a failure. I don't feel guilt at my 10 pound gain, I feel disapointed in myself. And that is a positive thing. If I didn't, I would continue to gain.

So jrnguyen, you are right and I totally agree with you that a bad day of eating should not define us and we should strive to live guilt free in this journey. And if I misunderstood your meaning in your original post, I apologize.

rpyle111

pawoodhull wrote: »

I think there is a huge difference between guilt and being honest and accountable with yourself.

This nails it for me. My history has shown me that every time I have lost weight/been healthy, logging has been a large part of it. The accountability really makes a difference for me. In the past, it has come with self-beatings and guilt when I did not live up to my perfect standards. This time around, i am working very hard at giving myself the same breaks that I give to others who falter, and my plan is to maintain the accountability without the inward abuse. So far, I give myself a B- in achieving the second part.

Here is where I find real solace in the rest of the MFP world. I see so many examples of 'thin/fit/healthy' people who have adopted the MFP logging and calorie targets into their lives, that I see there is real hope for me to slide into that existence after the honeymoon stage of the WLS process is over and I am at a weight I like.

I may be able to lighten up on the rigorous logging if I can tighten up my food selections, but realistically, I like cooking and eating interesting things too much to believe I will be able to successfully not log. I am hoping to follow Bikerchick's model of less rigorous loggin while in a maintenance zone, with periodic logging to get back on track, but we shall see.

OP, I hope your new plan works for you!

Rob

loriloftness

Thaeda wrote: »

[For me, I do not make the healthy choices naturally. It takes effort to choose eggs instead of a donut. It takes effort to eat veggies when I want chocolate pudding. It takes effort to go and work out when I would rather sit on the couch. People talk about avoiding the word "diet" and instead use "lifestyle change"-- well, my problem is my "lifestyle" is not a healthy one! I am choosing to adopt a healthy lifestyle because I want to keep losing and eventually to avoid regain-- but very few of the things I need to do to reach my goals come without a significant amount of forethought and effort.

This is what I was trying to say. I am not inclined to make healthy choices by nature. I am hopeful that down the road I will be. I also am a terrible judge of portion sizes. Actually, that holds true not just for portions of food, but for judging distances & space. I do not conceptualize well, which is why I need to measure and keep track. Again, I'm hopeful that it is a skill I will be able to learn as I go. I do agree with the idea of not defining ourselves as a "failure" because we ate something unhealthy, or had a bad day, or a bad week. Those things happen with eating, with work, with relationships, etc. It's a part of life. It doesn't mean we failed. If my earlier comment missed that point, I'm sorry.

jrnguyen

I think this entire thread has gone completely off the rails. I do not have a new "plan", nor am I living "off program". I am still logging everything, hitting my macros and exercising daily. I simply felt that I needed, and therfore had, ONE weekend that was free of worry about my weight/weight loss/calorie intake/etc. I was posting because I was excited that I'm finally to a point in my journey where I know that I can be successful despite setbacks, or without centering my entire world around my surgery. I was posting because I wanted others to know that it IS possible to get to this mental state post surgery. It may take months or years, but it can be done, and we should be allowed to celebrate that.

The number of negative responses I received, and the number of "warnings" about what I could potentially be doing wrong is disheartening. Being told that I'm giving "false hope" is a slap in the face. Thank you to those of you who actually didn't twist my success into some personal attack against you, but I believe this is a sign that it's time to back away from the negativity of this forum.

garber6th

Sorry you are taking this to heart, but I am sure no one means to attack you. The fact is, in this group, we should all feel good about sharing but we should all understand that when others share opinions that aren't ours it isn't necessarily responding negatively, but sharing experience. Those of us who are a year or more out might have different experiences than someone who is 3 or 4 months out, and it's important that we are all honest so that maybe our experiences can help someone. I think it's fine to share, I also think it's fine to express concern that what we share and how we share it might not be perceived in the way it was intended. We have to be open, but we have to be careful as well, because some people read these forums and take what is said to heart, and as we all know, not everything works the same for everyone. I will say what I always say - follow the program. If we could all make our own program and follow it successfully, we probably would not have needed to get surgery. Almost everyone who is a year or more out from surgery will probably tell you that when they drift from the program or the plan, that is when the trouble begins. Please appreciate what others are sharing and try not to take it personally.

ac7nj

[quote="jrnguyen;31151324
The number of negative responses I received, and the number of "warnings" about what I could potentially be doing wrong is disheartening. Being told that I'm giving "false hope" is a slap in the face. Thank you to those of you who actually didn't twist my success into some personal attack against you, but I believe this is a sign that it's time to back away from the negativity of this forum.
[/quote]

I didn't get any thing negative from this thread. I did get inspiration from other points of view. I should also say I misunderstood your post. I read it like you were not happy with logging and following a regimented program. That you wanted to be free of need to use MFP tools.

Randy

2BeHappy2

I understand her and bikrchk
It would be nice to not always have to be running to the site to get my cals logged in before the stroke of midnight.
I mean come on, Im not Cinderella!
Wouldn't it be freeing if we didn't have to jump online for every morsel but to just knowingly be thoughtful of our food choices?
I don't believe that everyone whos elected to have surgery is because they themselves caused it.
Weight gain could have come from medications, mental or medical health issues.
Take for instance someone who is mentally challenged and on meds and is sedentary.
I am 4'2, clearly I cant eat as much as Rob at his height so while I cant eat his portion, I can still eat the same just at a smaller amount.
My weight comes from not always having enough to eat growing up.
Being 1 of 6 kids and every one of them being much taller than me feeling like I had to fight for my share!
Eat it while its there because we never knew what or how much we'd have later.
Its not like I don't know what or how much to eat because I have learned that in the process of things (pre & post surgery).
I just want to get to the point where #'s are no longer the highlight but that I ate to comfort and not fullness and I was happy w/ my choices.
I never learned the feeling of contentment because we were either really hungry or really full.
Even when I moved out, my 1st priorities were my bills and then my personal needs and then myself.
So if it meant eating "bad" vs "healthy" then that was just what I had to do to get by.
Where my life is now, I can and do eat better but the damage had been there for all those previous years.
It was hard and even painful for me to exercise effectively, not that I couldn't but my energy level was so low that doing the every day normal things was enough in my day that anything else just simply exhausted me.
This surgery has given me that do-over that I needed!
Since I am consciously aware (maybe more so since doing all this) of the goods and not so good, I am better able to apply it in this part of my life than before when things looked so bleak.
This do-over is giving me the 2nd chance that I was needing and this time around I have the right attitude and a chance for a happier, healthier, stronger me with a great attitude to go with it!
At some point (not now) Id like to not have to hover around cals and logging in, to be able to slowly break away from the bonds of all this knowing that I can be detached but come back as needed.
Kind of like spreading my wings and venturing out into the world without fearing it!
Read about this little girl who was a "normal" weight and then ballooned to her highest weight.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/texas-girl-12-hungry-gastric-bypass/story?id=22992991