Were you able to achieve a dramatic improvement in your marathon time? How?!
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CarsonRuns wrote: »FromHereOnOut wrote: »
Speed/track workouts have a very limited effectiveness if you don't have the aerobic base to support it, which you get from weeks and months of easy running.
This can't be said often enough, I don't think. I've never had a 'breakthrough' in the sense of 'and I knocked 30 minutes off my time!!!!' or whatever, but that is because I didn't get round to racing until I'd been running for three years and was comfortably running 30+ miles a week. I think it's a breakthrough if I get three minutes off a PR (thats HUGE). But I didn't go through all the pain and misery of training I wasn't ready for, or racing distances I couldn't handle either.0 -
DavidMartinez2 wrote: »Carrieendar wrote: »-getting close to racing weight
This is a huge help in running faster. Judging by your profile pic it may not be a big issue for you. I had two breakthroughs in my running: one was loosing ~20 lbs and the other was being introduced to track workouts.
I'm currently ranging 133 - 135 lbs and am 5'6". Not sure current BMI. I am open & willing to lose a bit more.0 -
OK I know this is *not* long distance, but just had to share that I got a PR on my 5K today! 25:37. Pretty darn pleased with my progress also considering this was a cross country course with mud, trails, a bit of a grassy hill, and dodging puddles!
Now, if I could hold that pace for 26.2....
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Anything over 800 (and some argue 800 included!) is long distance!0
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I think the dividing line is 5000m track = middle distance and 5k road or MT = long distance. So it definitely counts!0
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AH! Thanks for the encouragement, guys!
I'm going to keep plugging away. 0 -
CarsonRuns wrote: »FromHereOnOut wrote: »DavidMartinez2 wrote: »s and the other was being introduced to track workouts.
Now I'm curious! :-) Care to share your breakthrough story and maybe a link or something wrt track workouts?
Speed/track workouts have a very limited effectiveness if you don't have the aerobic base to support it, which you get from weeks and months of easy running.
I only asked because I am base building now and I have easy access to running long slow distance (basic city and coastal running). And that's all I'm doing for the next couple months. But for any speed or tests or anything requiring a track, I have to pay to join a club to have acces to a track (FYI, I don't live in America where there are tracks at every high school) and so naturally I'm waiting until I'm ready for those workouts before joining (not to mention that running around a track is mentally difficult for me). But once I'm ready and start paying (won't be befor September for sure), I'll want to maximize usage effectiveness and so I'm just looking for pointers or success stories, which I thought it sounded as if the poster I quoted had.
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FromHereOnOut wrote: »CarsonRuns wrote: »FromHereOnOut wrote: »DavidMartinez2 wrote: »s and the other was being introduced to track workouts.
Now I'm curious! :-) Care to share your breakthrough story and maybe a link or something wrt track workouts?
Speed/track workouts have a very limited effectiveness if you don't have the aerobic base to support it, which you get from weeks and months of easy running.
I only asked because I am base building now and I have easy access to running long slow distance (basic city and coastal running). And that's all I'm doing for the next couple months. But for any speed or tests or anything requiring a track, I have to pay to join a club to have acces to a track (FYI, I don't live in America where there are tracks at every high school) and so naturally I'm waiting until I'm ready for those workouts before joining (not to mention that running around a track is mentally difficult for me). But once I'm ready and start paying (won't be befor September for sure), I'll want to maximize usage effectiveness and so I'm just looking for pointers or success stories, which I thought it sounded as if the poster I quoted had.
You don't need a track to do speed workouts. You can do them with a Garmin (or other GPS device) or by running a route with know distances. A track is just the most precise way to do them.0 -
I think I mentioned this to you before, but I went from a 3:49 to a 3:14 marathon in 6 months. Yep, shaved 35 minutes off that bad boy! Part of it was my internal motivation. I had been so close to a BQ, but missed it. Secondly, I completely changed how I trained. The general rule is to do your long runs SLOW, like a minute or more slower than your marathon pace. I do not do that. i run them fast to get my body used to the distance and pace. That has been key for me. You do run the risk of injury (as I type this I am injured!). For that 3:14 PR I was also only running 4 days/week. I would cross train on the other days and usually take the day after the LR off. Those 4 running days, I make the miles count. I would start the week with 10 mile run on Mondays (usually at half marathon pace). Tuesdays would be 10k Tuesdays. I do a killer hill workout on the treadmill. Then I would do another run (fast) on Thursdays on the treadmill. I like to do progression runs, meaning that I start at a good pace, and pick up speed every 5 minutes. On the treadmill, I will start at 7.5 mph and I am usually at 9.2 mph by the end and sometimes will get it close to 10 mph for like 20 seconds. This teaches my body to work hard even when its tired.
I don't know if this is an official way, but I found it works for me. I got cocky the past few months though and was trying to run every day. Now I have a major injury that may cause me to miss Boston.0 -
I think I mentioned this to you before, but I went from a 3:49 to a 3:14 marathon in 6 months. Yep, shaved 35 minutes off that bad boy! Part of it was my internal motivation. I had been so close to a BQ, but missed it. Secondly, I completely changed how I trained. The general rule is to do your long runs SLOW, like a minute or more slower than your marathon pace. I do not do that. i run them fast to get my body used to the distance and pace. That has been key for me. You do run the risk of injury (as I type this I am injured!). For that 3:14 PR I was also only running 4 days/week. I would cross train on the other days and usually take the day after the LR off. Those 4 running days, I make the miles count. I would start the week with 10 mile run on Mondays (usually at half marathon pace). Tuesdays would be 10k Tuesdays. I do a killer hill workout on the treadmill. Then I would do another run (fast) on Thursdays on the treadmill. I like to do progression runs, meaning that I start at a good pace, and pick up speed every 5 minutes. On the treadmill, I will start at 7.5 mph and I am usually at 9.2 mph by the end and sometimes will get it close to 10 mph for like 20 seconds. This teaches my body to work hard even when its tired.
I don't know if this is an official way, but I found it works for me. I got cocky the past few months though and was trying to run every day. Now I have a major injury that may cause me to miss Boston.
OH NO!!!
I hope you get better, that would be a HUGE bummer to miss that.
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I think I mentioned this to you before, but I went from a 3:49 to a 3:14 marathon in 6 months. Yep, shaved 35 minutes off that bad boy! Part of it was my internal motivation. I had been so close to a BQ, but missed it. Secondly, I completely changed how I trained. The general rule is to do your long runs SLOW, like a minute or more slower than your marathon pace. I do not do that. i run them fast to get my body used to the distance and pace. That has been key for me. You do run the risk of injury (as I type this I am injured!). For that 3:14 PR I was also only running 4 days/week. I would cross train on the other days and usually take the day after the LR off. Those 4 running days, I make the miles count. I would start the week with 10 mile run on Mondays (usually at half marathon pace). Tuesdays would be 10k Tuesdays. I do a killer hill workout on the treadmill. Then I would do another run (fast) on Thursdays on the treadmill. I like to do progression runs, meaning that I start at a good pace, and pick up speed every 5 minutes. On the treadmill, I will start at 7.5 mph and I am usually at 9.2 mph by the end and sometimes will get it close to 10 mph for like 20 seconds. This teaches my body to work hard even when its tired.
I don't know if this is an official way, but I found it works for me. I got cocky the past few months though and was trying to run every day. Now I have a major injury that may cause me to miss Boston.
Not to sound like too much of a prick, but from the way you describe your training, it's not surprising that you are injured.
You basically described a FIRST style of training with seems to work very well with athletes that have been running for a long time and want to preserve their speed as they age. For newer runners, running fast all the time is a recipe for injury.0 -
I don't think you are a prick, but I also don't think you have all elements of my training presented in a post. I am usually quite healthy and I realize where I made mistakes. I would never advise a newer runner to run fast all the time. I was content for years doing my 10 minute miles. The OP asked how others got faster and doing my LR fast was my key.
It is easy to point fingers as to why someone got hurt. I am not 25 years old anymore and far from it. I am working on finding the balance of pushing my limits and realizing the limits of my older body.0 -
I don't think you are a prick, but I also don't think you have all elements of my training presented in a post. I am usually quite healthy and I realize where I made mistakes. I would never advise a newer runner to run fast all the time. I was content for years doing my 10 minute miles. The OP asked how others got faster and doing my LR fast was my key.
It is easy to point fingers as to why someone got hurt. I am not 25 years old anymore and far from it. I am working on finding the balance of pushing my limits and realizing the limits of my older body.
You're right, you did answer the OP's question.
Also, you said you run about 4 times per week. Rereading your post, you said you did:
one 10 mile run at HM pace: This is right around LT pace, which most coaches will tell you you should exceed about 40 minutes at that pace unless you are racing.
10K hill workout on the treadmill.
Fast run on the treadmill on Thursdays (progression down to 10 mph, which is 6:00 mile).
Again, back to my original post, these are all hard workouts, similar to FIRST training, which is a methodology that is almost certain to leave a newer runner injured and stands a good chance of injuring an experienced runner.
Most successful modern coaches advocate an 80/20 plan. 80% easy running with 20% of the volume being the hard workouts. The percentages get a little higher as you move toward the peak of training, but not by much.
Maybe I am being too presumptuous about the source of your injury, but I'm certain that the information that I've given about the type of training that you do is accurate. If it works for you, that's fantastic. I only want to point out to the other runners, some less seasoned, some more seasoned than you, that the way you train is very uncommon and isn't the way that the large majority of successful distance runners train.
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I think I mentioned this to you before, but I went from a 3:49 to a 3:14 marathon in 6 months. Yep, shaved 35 minutes off that bad boy! Part of it was my internal motivation. I had been so close to a BQ, but missed it. Secondly, I completely changed how I trained. The general rule is to do your long runs SLOW, like a minute or more slower than your marathon pace. I do not do that. i run them fast to get my body used to the distance and pace. That has been key for me. You do run the risk of injury (as I type this I am injured!). For that 3:14 PR I was also only running 4 days/week. I would cross train on the other days and usually take the day after the LR off. Those 4 running days, I make the miles count. I would start the week with 10 mile run on Mondays (usually at half marathon pace). Tuesdays would be 10k Tuesdays. I do a killer hill workout on the treadmill. Then I would do another run (fast) on Thursdays on the treadmill. I like to do progression runs, meaning that I start at a good pace, and pick up speed every 5 minutes. On the treadmill, I will start at 7.5 mph and I am usually at 9.2 mph by the end and sometimes will get it close to 10 mph for like 20 seconds. This teaches my body to work hard even when its tired.
I don't know if this is an official way, but I found it works for me. I got cocky the past few months though and was trying to run every day. Now I have a major injury that may cause me to miss Boston.
I would consider this risky and dangerous training met have "worked" had it not caused an injury. I'll stick with the proven method because I know I'm not a snowflake.0 -
I think it's possible. Some of is up to your hard work and dedication, and some of it is beyond your control (age, genetics, etc). And strangely, sometimes a person for the first time in their life tries to run to get in shape and they find a remarkable athlete underneath. I just listened to the Ultrarunnerpodcast of Caroline Boller. At 38, she was a married mother and lawyer and decided to start running. This is all very recent. She started in 2012. She ran her first marathon in 3:53 in September of 2013. One year later she ran a marathon in 2:51. She just took 1st place female in a stacked field at the Black Canyon 100K and is now sponsored by Nike Trail Elite. Obviously she's an outlier! For us who have not won the genetic lottery (not to take away from her very hard work!), our improvements are not going to be so dramatic.
Good luck to you!0 -
I'm just witing till I get older nd the qualifying times get longer for my age group.
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Do you all listen to Runner's Academy? They have a ton of free podcasts there. I just listened to this one amazing story today about Ariana Hilborn. Here's a snippet from the podcast description:
"She went from running as a charity runner with the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society Team in Training program finishing her first marathon in 4:36:58 to qualifying for the US Olympic trials just over 3 years later and has a PR of 2:37:28 – and she did all of this while training in the heat of Arizona and at the time a dedicated full time first grade teacher."
Another example, most likely, of someone with undiscovered hidden talent, but still so inspirational to listen to today!
http://runneracademy.com/ra046-ariana-hilborn/0 -
Ooh, another podcast to check out. Thanks!0
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DonPendergraft wrote: »Ooh, another podcast to check out. Thanks!
You bet!! I love listening to these while I work (I work from home). They seem to have to some notable folks too - Deena Kastor, Hal Higdon, plus lots of what they call "everyday runners" just doing amazing things. Good quality stuff!
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