Marathon no.2

valentine4

Morning all,

just wondering if anyone has any tips for me as I contemplate marathon no2.

I did as Carson predicted a textbook first time marathon - fine until mile 20 ish, then walked/ jogged very slowly and painfully to the finish line. Finished in 4.40, was bang on pace throughout until the last 6 miles when it all slowly fell apart .

My expectations were low the aim was simply to finish with a smile which I did, however now I want to go back and make a better effort at it.

So any tips/advice ? at present I am going mountain running ( very slowly) once a week, speed work with the running club, a long run at the weekends - longest so far 15 miles with a cut back every 3rd wk and generally a 6 mile run in between as well.

I'm also having a great time cross training and try and do it once a week - last week was pliboxing a cross between pilates & boxing. This week its back to anti gravity yoga.

I have two half marathons in March a week apart, so will do my final long run this weekend and then tamper for them. Dublin marathon is not until october, however I did a half in the mournes last June and loved every second of it I have an itch on me to go back and do the full however I would need to decide soon in order to get the training in....other thing as well is it is a trail run.

Again any help greatly appreciated!

regards,

Valentine

jenring3

Following. I'm in the same boat from my first full in january though your time is a bit better than mine. At first I thought I would never do another and stick to halfs. But now I feel I have a score to settle

kristinegift

I'm also training for my second full (end of May) as well as my ninth half (end of April). I am mostly trying to up my mileage overall, as well as incorporate speed work more regularly than I did for my last training cycle. My schedule is a long run Sunday, 3-4 miles recovery Monday, off Tuesday, 4 miles Wednesday, 5-8 miles with speedwork Thursday, 3-4 miles Friday, and then 2-3 miles if I feel like it on Saturday to keep things limber for the long run. I'm trying to figure out when to incorporate some cross-training, but my grad school schedule is pure chaos. However, since I've been doing speedwork and upping my mileage, I am running 20-50 seconds per mile faster than I was during my last training cycle, which is super exciting.

As for the June marathon, will you be trained in time -- for both the distance and the terrain? If not, why not do the half again since you liked it so much?

JustWant2Run

More easy miles, more easy miles, more easy miles.

Build slowly your base. Add 4% a week for two weeks, then cut back for one week. Build up to 6 runs a week if you are not already.

More easy miles, more easy miles, more easy miles.

chemlabdoc

It looks like your training is good except the longest run needs to be longer. You should be able to run 20 miles comfortably. This gives your body the confidence it needs to not give up.
During the race you can have a walk run strategy from the beginning. Walk for a minute after every water stop for example. Some people don't like this because it is hard to get going again. If that's is the case then try it in practice on a long run. If it is flat, choose an interval like walk every so many minutes or once a mile. For trail running, walk all uphills.
Generally speaking, the 20 mile breakdown in a marathon is from going out too fast. It takes some experience to figure out the right pacing, and you can get that experience either by training or running races.

lporter229

I concur with Josee. More easy miles. And run them slowly. This will prepare your body for conserving energy during a race. The pace you run for your marathon should feel easy for at least the first 15 miles. The last 6 miles of a marathon are going to be tough, it's a marathon, so you need to prepare for that and try and conserve your energy. If you are working hard at the beginning, you are almost certainly going to fall apart at the end. Other factors that add to this include proper fueling during the race, carb loading for adequate glycogen stores and fresh legs from a proper taper. What you do in the days and weeks leading up to a race have just as much impact as all of your other training.

lporter229

I also want to add that I am by no means an expert on this subject, but I also just did marathon number 2 and had a definite fear of bonking, so I did as much research (here and other running websites) and the advice in the above post are what helped me the most. My goal for my race was sub 4 hour. I finished in 3:52 and change. My first miles was 8:59 and my last was 8:54. Average was 8:52 and all of my miles except 1 were within 10 seconds of my average. I was really happy with the consistency of this race. The last several miles were hard, but I never felt the need to slow down or that I wasn't going to make it.

jbrinda1

It's super hard to run a consistent marathon pace. You have to really know what you're capable of, not get sucked in by the hype of idiots going out fast, and know how to manage your hydration and nutrition, and of course plan accordingly for hills and other challenges. Definitely try to get at least three twenty mile runs in. They don't have to be fast. On race day, I try to run a pace that I know is within me, and hold back just a bit on the first 18. Run them like you could run a bit faster if you really wanted. Try to conserve something for that last 6 or 8 miles. The last 10K is never easy, no matter how well trained you are. Don't be surprised by that. But if you reserve a little something for it, you'll feel better at the end. That being said, my fastest races were ones where I pushed the pace. I usually know a few weeks before the race what I am capable of within five or ten minutes. Try to run at the slower end of that range early in the race. You can always air it out at the end. You definitely don't want a death march from mile 20. Put in the miles, the rest will follow.

congruns

Last fall, I registered for the LA Marathon (March) thinking that would be my first marathon. I was running halves every weekend and was ahead in my training. After feeling good after a 40K in early November, I decided to push up my first marathon over the T-Giving weekend because I wanted to get it done before my 41st bday. I run in small (about 100 runners) open-distance (5k-marathon) fun-runs/races that have aid stations. These are cheaper than the big races, so it makes it easier to run these on a whim. Like the OP, after mile 20, it's game on was a fight between heavy legs, blisters, and the mental game. After tripping and palm planting to the ground at mile 24, I finished just over 4:45 (my best half time is just under 2 hrs). Looking at my splits, I was averaged 9:30 through the first half, then 12:30 in 2nd half.

With the first one out of the way, I glad I was able to have the small race to learn from my mistakes. I feel I improve as a runner when I fail. I decided to work on a slower pace (10:00-10:30) in my long runs. Then at the end of December I started to experience ITBS. Some say that it might because of my increase in mileage. I didn't start running until Dec 2013, so I had my first 5K in June 2014 then migrated to the first full in November. I had loss a bunch of weight and was on super high. I also think that I changed my form when I slowed my pace down and that may have attributed to the ITBS.

My doctor is a runner, so she understands that not running is not an option for me, so I've been warned that I can make things worse if I am not careful. With more rest days between runs, foam rolling, and glute/hip strengthening, IT band is improving. I ran 18 miles last weekend with no problems after running 13 the weekend before. I have 4 weekends until the LA Marathon, so I'm going to start my taper a bit early and my plan is to run what I can with no pressure on time, and walk when I need to. I've never ran in a large half let alone a full, so I am just going to allow myself to enjoy the party. LA is my hometown, so this is my race to reward myself for my new found hobby.

After the Ides of March (LA is on 3/15), I have all the time to rest of take a break and don't have any plans to do a full in the near future. The half is a fun distance, and to me the 10K is a great race. To give myself more cross training options, I've bought a bike and will take swim lessons, because I've been told that I swim very inefficiently.

Since I have no deadlines for the next full, I think back to how I started running. My long runs were 6 miles before I ran my first 5K, 10 miles before my first 10K, and 15M before my first half. I remember when running was a stress release but when I was dealing with ITBS, running was stressful because I evaluated my knees after every step. My plan now is to just master long runs of 18M for a couple of months, then 21M, then 24M, etc. Maybe there is another full in my future, maybe there isn't. No concerns, no worries, just trying to get back to the love of running.

2 poster worthy notions I've learned through all this:

1) It's easier to become a marathoner, then to become a millionaire.
2) The last 6 miles of a marathon is like a hangover: you swear you'll never do this again but you'll be back at it next weekend.

CarsonRuns

congvo wrote: »

2) The last 6 miles of a marathon is like a hangover: you swear you'll never do this again but you'll be back at it next weekend.

I only felt this way in my first and fifth marathon. The other three, I was able to finish strong and never felt like I'd never do it again. With proper training and appropriate pacing, the last 6 miles doesn't have to be like this. First marathon, was just my first marathon. Fifth marathon it was way warmer than I expected and that impacted everyone's last 6 miles.

Carrieendar

For me, the key to running a great last 6 is a negative split. I've tried steady splits in a couple races of varying distances, but all of my best races (minus 5k) have been a negative split. it takes some practice though to be able to convince yourself that starting slow will not negatively affect your finish time; I think once i got over that mental hurdle now its just second nature to run negative splits in a big race.

congruns

Carrieendar wrote: »

For me, the key to running a great last 6 is a negative split. I've tried steady splits in a couple races of varying distances, but all of my best races (minus 5k) have been a negative split. it takes some practice though to be able to convince yourself that starting slow will not negatively affect your finish time; I think once i got over that mental hurdle now its just second nature to run negative splits in a big race.

That's amazing. I have been able to run negative splits in a half but to me but to apply it to a full brings up the fear of just being on your feet (even walking) for that long would cause some fatigue an affect performance. I once walked with a friend for a half in under 3.5 hours and my legs were jello at the end.

Carrieendar

It's not a huge difference though. My last marathon was a 1:37/1:35 for the two halves, but you get faster and it feels great.

CarsonRuns

Carrieendar wrote: »

It's not a huge difference though. My last marathon was a 1:37/1:35 for the two halves, but you get faster and it feels great.

That's a good split. In marathon #3, I ran like 4:00+ negative split. I left some time out there on the course.