Excessive hair gets me down, suggestions? Does weight loss improve it?
Jennym93
Posts: 136 Member
Hi, I'm new on here so forgive me if a similar thread has already been posted.
I was diagnosed with PCOS around a year ago maybe a little bit over, I've tried metformin and vaniqua but I stopped the metformin as it gave me unpleasant side effects and the vaniqua is expensive to buy repeatedly and there isn't enough in the bottle cover all my hairy areas
I'm having laser hair removal on my chin but I can't afford any more after these sessions are over, my parents have said they'll pay but I don't think they realise how expensive it will be.
The thing is I have fine but dark hair all over including my lower back and even a few on my shoulders, I have fine but dark hair on my arms and stomach and it makes me feel disgusting, I'm already fat and unattractive I don't need to add excessive hair onto that, I really feel disgusting when I look in the mirror, at least without the hair I wouldn't look *so* bad.
I epilate/wax most areas and shave where I have to but I feel like I'm doing it so much I don't get to relax, I'm almost obsessed with hair and hiding it if I find some I hadn't noticed before, I'm paranoid others will notice.
Anyway long complaining bit over, my question is has anyone on here seen a marked improvement in their body hair after losing weight?
I was diagnosed with PCOS around a year ago maybe a little bit over, I've tried metformin and vaniqua but I stopped the metformin as it gave me unpleasant side effects and the vaniqua is expensive to buy repeatedly and there isn't enough in the bottle cover all my hairy areas
I'm having laser hair removal on my chin but I can't afford any more after these sessions are over, my parents have said they'll pay but I don't think they realise how expensive it will be.
The thing is I have fine but dark hair all over including my lower back and even a few on my shoulders, I have fine but dark hair on my arms and stomach and it makes me feel disgusting, I'm already fat and unattractive I don't need to add excessive hair onto that, I really feel disgusting when I look in the mirror, at least without the hair I wouldn't look *so* bad.
I epilate/wax most areas and shave where I have to but I feel like I'm doing it so much I don't get to relax, I'm almost obsessed with hair and hiding it if I find some I hadn't noticed before, I'm paranoid others will notice.
Anyway long complaining bit over, my question is has anyone on here seen a marked improvement in their body hair after losing weight?
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My doctor placed me on Spironolactone and it has helped a lot. I used to have dark fine growth on my toes, stomach and arms. All those places have all but stopped. My problem area now is the chin. It helped to slow down the growth but it is still there. My primary increased the dose as much she is comfortable. However I just recently went to a PCOS specialist and once she goes over my blood draw results may increase what I am taking now.0
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Journeywithyou wrote: »My doctor placed me on Spironolactone and it has helped a lot. I used to have dark fine growth on my toes, stomach and arms. All those places have all but stopped. My problem area now is the chin. It helped to slow down the growth but it is still there. My primary increased the dose as much she is comfortable. However I just recently went to a PCOS specialist and once she goes over my blood draw results may increase what I am taking now.
I was never offered that, metformin was the first thing they wanted to try, I'm only trying to get rid of the hair (no other noticeable symptoms) so they have referred me back to my gp since I'm having laser removal and the metform did nothing, so I've no idea if there is any medication option for me. Problem is laser removal for all the hair is too expensive, I'm hoping weight loss will improve it
What is Spironolactone specifically for?
Edit: I've googled
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Weight loss will help, but getting your hormones in balance will help more. Other threads here discuss the merits of Inositol, Vitex, and other options... Don't give up. A TON of very knowledgeable women here.0
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »Weight loss will help, but getting your hormones in balance will help more. Other threads here discuss the merits of Inositol, Vitex, and other options... Don't give up. A TON of very knowledgeable women here.
I don't know how out of whack my hormones are, the doctors were incredibly vague and initially I wasn't even certain they'd actually diagnosed me, If I recall right (although it's been along time) one dr said that my testosterone wasn't overly high/fairly normal levels or something around that, I could be wrong on that one.
Guess I'll have to do some more snooping around on here.0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »Weight loss will help, but getting your hormones in balance will help more. Other threads here discuss the merits of Inositol, Vitex, and other options... Don't give up. A TON of very knowledgeable women here.
I don't know how out of whack my hormones are, the doctors were incredibly vague and initially I wasn't even certain they'd actually diagnosed me, If I recall right (although it's been along time) one dr said that my testosterone wasn't overly high/fairly normal levels or something around that, I could be wrong on that one.
Guess I'll have to do some more snooping around on here.
For hair growth, that is an indicator that your hormones are out of whack. Sorry I didn't spell that you. LOL Your testosterone can look normal by itself, but totally off when compared to other levels. This is a very wild and wacky syndrome, so you can have 1 factor or 100 factors to do with it. Some won't show up until others are treated, etc. It is a fairly involved process to diagnoses properly because there isn't just one test...
And the doctors, if they don't specialize in his field, will be very vague. You will likely need to see an endocrinologist, as they do specialize in most things hormonal. Not all cover everything, but most cover most things, if that makes sense. Before you have an appointment, you should be able to ask about that doctor's experience with this. And you should be able to get copies of any and all of your bloodwork - ask when the doctors give you your results, because otherwise they might charge you (more?) later to get a copy. That way you can do your own research.
This is your health. No one anywhere is exactly like you. For your own sanity and peace of mind, this is the perfect time to take charge of this yourself...even if you don't know where to start. Best of luck!!0 -
Oh I see, now I've seen GP's and specialists and no one has told me that it's not JUST testosterone that messes it up. The only advice they really ever gave me was lose weightKnitOrMiss wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »Weight loss will help, but getting your hormones in balance will help more. Other threads here discuss the merits of Inositol, Vitex, and other options... Don't give up. A TON of very knowledgeable women here.
I don't know how out of whack my hormones are, the doctors were incredibly vague and initially I wasn't even certain they'd actually diagnosed me, If I recall right (although it's been along time) one dr said that my testosterone wasn't overly high/fairly normal levels or something around that, I could be wrong on that one.
Guess I'll have to do some more snooping around on here.
For hair growth, that is an indicator that your hormones are out of whack. Sorry I didn't spell that you. LOL Your testosterone can look normal by itself, but totally off when compared to other levels. This is a very wild and wacky syndrome, so you can have 1 factor or 100 factors to do with it. Some won't show up until others are treated, etc. It is a fairly involved process to diagnoses properly because there isn't just one test...
And the doctors, if they don't specialize in his field, will be very vague. You will likely need to see an endocrinologist, as they do specialize in most things hormonal. Not all cover everything, but most cover most things, if that makes sense. Before you have an appointment, you should be able to ask about that doctor's experience with this. And you should be able to get copies of any and all of your bloodwork - ask when the doctors give you your results, because otherwise they might charge you (more?) later to get a copy. That way you can do your own research.
This is your health. No one anywhere is exactly like you. For your own sanity and peace of mind, this is the perfect time to take charge of this yourself...even if you don't know where to start. Best of luck!!![:\](https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
(and that was the specialists)
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Oh I see, now I've seen GP's and specialists and no one has told me that it's not JUST testosterone that messes it up. The only advice they really ever gave me was lose weightKnitOrMiss wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »Weight loss will help, but getting your hormones in balance will help more. Other threads here discuss the merits of Inositol, Vitex, and other options... Don't give up. A TON of very knowledgeable women here.
I don't know how out of whack my hormones are, the doctors were incredibly vague and initially I wasn't even certain they'd actually diagnosed me, If I recall right (although it's been along time) one dr said that my testosterone wasn't overly high/fairly normal levels or something around that, I could be wrong on that one.
Guess I'll have to do some more snooping around on here.
For hair growth, that is an indicator that your hormones are out of whack. Sorry I didn't spell that you. LOL Your testosterone can look normal by itself, but totally off when compared to other levels. This is a very wild and wacky syndrome, so you can have 1 factor or 100 factors to do with it. Some won't show up until others are treated, etc. It is a fairly involved process to diagnoses properly because there isn't just one test...
And the doctors, if they don't specialize in his field, will be very vague. You will likely need to see an endocrinologist, as they do specialize in most things hormonal. Not all cover everything, but most cover most things, if that makes sense. Before you have an appointment, you should be able to ask about that doctor's experience with this. And you should be able to get copies of any and all of your bloodwork - ask when the doctors give you your results, because otherwise they might charge you (more?) later to get a copy. That way you can do your own research.
This is your health. No one anywhere is exactly like you. For your own sanity and peace of mind, this is the perfect time to take charge of this yourself...even if you don't know where to start. Best of luck!! (and that was the specialists)
Your hormones are kind of like a network. Any dominant hormone can steal another hormone and convert it for it's own use. After my daughter was born, all my tests show no progesterone to measure, even with supplementation. Turns out my cortisol and adrenaline were both low, stealing any progesterone I added and converting it to use for the others. If any one hormone is out of whack, it can mess up all the rest. Any doctor who didn't explain that would no longer be MY doctor.
My PHARMACIST who does the homeopathic/supplement treatments is the one who explained it to me... She owns a compounding pharmacy... I would plan to "interview" or research any doctors before you see a new one. (most will make 5-15 minute calls - sometimes a brief visit - to make sure their knowledge and approach mirror your need - it's a job interview - you need someone to tackle the whole issue!!)
Wishing you the best of luck finding a decent doc willing to explain things to you...they can be few and far between, though honestly, a lot of them, if you do your own research and come to them with educated questions, they'll respect you more and treat you better. They are used to dumbing stuff down for people (as I used to be) so lazy they just take a doctor's word and never try to do a single thing more/better...0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »=
Your hormones are kind of like a network. Any dominant hormone can steal another hormone and convert it for it's own use. After my daughter was born, all my tests show no progesterone to measure, even with supplementation. Turns out my cortisol and adrenaline were both low, stealing any progesterone I added and converting it to use for the others. If any one hormone is out of whack, it can mess up all the rest. Any doctor who didn't explain that would no longer be MY doctor.
My PHARMACIST who does the homeopathic/supplement treatments is the one who explained it to me... She owns a compounding pharmacy... I would plan to "interview" or research any doctors before you see a new one. (most will make 5-15 minute calls - sometimes a brief visit - to make sure their knowledge and approach mirror your need - it's a job interview - you need someone to tackle the whole issue!!)
Wishing you the best of luck finding a decent doc willing to explain things to you...they can be few and far between, though honestly, a lot of them, if you do your own research and come to them with educated questions, they'll respect you more and treat you better. They are used to dumbing stuff down for people (as I used to be) so lazy they just take a doctor's word and never try to do a single thing more/better...
Thank you, I'm hoping weight loss will cause a significant improvement since that's what they were suggesting but if the symptoms haven't lessened by the time I've reached my goal then I will definitely be going back to my GP for a referral back to the fertility unit where I'll hopefully get some useful treatment. (please don't think I've not tried researching this, it's a case of fully grasping the information I find)
I'd rather do it without medication as one prescription is expensive enough let alone two lol but if it's going to help (if weight loss doesn't) then I'll definitely go back and ask about other options. I also have to be careful due to other medical conditions so my medications are often limited0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »=
Your hormones are kind of like a network. Any dominant hormone can steal another hormone and convert it for it's own use. After my daughter was born, all my tests show no progesterone to measure, even with supplementation. Turns out my cortisol and adrenaline were both low, stealing any progesterone I added and converting it to use for the others. If any one hormone is out of whack, it can mess up all the rest. Any doctor who didn't explain that would no longer be MY doctor.
My PHARMACIST who does the homeopathic/supplement treatments is the one who explained it to me... She owns a compounding pharmacy... I would plan to "interview" or research any doctors before you see a new one. (most will make 5-15 minute calls - sometimes a brief visit - to make sure their knowledge and approach mirror your need - it's a job interview - you need someone to tackle the whole issue!!)
Wishing you the best of luck finding a decent doc willing to explain things to you...they can be few and far between, though honestly, a lot of them, if you do your own research and come to them with educated questions, they'll respect you more and treat you better. They are used to dumbing stuff down for people (as I used to be) so lazy they just take a doctor's word and never try to do a single thing more/better...
Thank you, I'm hoping weight loss will cause a significant improvement since that's what they were suggesting but if the symptoms haven't lessened by the time I've reached my goal then I will definitely be going back to my GP for a referral back to the fertility unit where I'll hopefully get some useful treatment. (please don't think I've not tried researching this, it's a case of fully grasping the information I find)
I'd rather do it without medication as one prescription is expensive enough let alone two lol but if it's going to help (if weight loss doesn't) then I'll definitely go back and ask about other options. I also have to be careful due to other medical conditions so my medications are often limited
@Jennym93 I don't doubt that you have researched your poor fingers numb! Those of us in this level of hormonal hell usually have...
That being said, as you burn fat, expect your hormonal situation to get worse before it gets better. Burning fat releases estrogen (I can't remember if it is stored there or generated there), but it will overwhelm your system on occasion, give your crazy PMS kind of mood swings, and all manner of mayhem. Knowing this in advance may help you with a plan...
I understand not wanting more meds, but some of these things are OTC supplements that can help. Vitex is a med that naturally balances hormones. I've never priced that one. Inositol can be purchased cheaply, and in the "Inositol" thread, there are frugal American and Canadian links to personally recommended products by those taking them. Both work to balance (Vitex balances both ways, to my understanding, where as Inositial focuses on restoring proper female balance, but I don't know about overcorrection or what have you).
Aside from that, waiting to get where you want to be might be a viable approach, but know that an evaluation, whether or not you choose more medication, might help with knowledge to combat any natural slumps you find, and additional medication may make the entire process easier on you and your body. But everyone is different, so I don't know...
Also, so many of us have additional medical issues, some related, some not. Me personally, I'm also hypothyroid, possibly insulin resistant (opinions vary), have no gallbladder, have pelvic organ prolapse (with rectocele), and chronic joint problems. I think that's the short list... So know that here, too, you aren't alone. Many others are all over the "board" too.
HUGS!0 -
Since I was hairy before I was fat, I'm going with, nope weightloss isn't a cure. However, weight certainly exasperates the hair issues for me. 40 pounds down and working with a ND to help balance my hormones, my new areas of hair growth have slowed down, or completely stopped in about 6 months.
Reversing that hair growth however I've had no luck with. The only part of my body that doesn't have some terminal hair growth is my central back (and maybe it's just because I can't see there as well) Lol
I've had moderate success with a home use IPL laser. I've been using it on my chest and stomach for about 3 months and almost all my dark course hair is under control. However it says it's safe to use on your face, but I've had no success with getting it to work there. Since hormonally things are now balanced for me (regular cycle and everything) I'm willing to try professional hair removal again. I've had my face lasered before but with very little long term success.
The cost of the at home laser system was about 200 dollars, (CAD) which since it seems to be moderately working on places I could never afford to have professionally lasered I think it's been a good investment.
I feel your pain I'm hairy like an ape
my best advice is to get your hormones balanced, then work on the crazy horrid hair. *hugs* 0 -
Since I was hairy before I was fat, I'm going with, nope weightloss isn't a cure. However, weight certainly exasperates the hair issues for me. 40 pounds down and working with a ND to help balance my hormones, my new areas of hair growth have slowed down, or completely stopped in about 6 months.
Reversing that hair growth however I've had no luck with. The only part of my body that doesn't have some terminal hair growth is my central back (and maybe it's just because I can't see there as well) Lol
I've had moderate success with a home use IPL laser. I've been using it on my chest and stomach for about 3 months and almost all my dark course hair is under control. However it says it's safe to use on your face, but I've had no success with getting it to work there. Since hormonally things are now balanced for me (regular cycle and everything) I'm willing to try professional hair removal again. I've had my face lasered before but with very little long term success.
The cost of the at home laser system was about 200 dollars, (CAD) which since it seems to be moderately working on places I could never afford to have professionally lasered I think it's been a good investment.
I feel your pain I'm hairy like an ape my best advice is to get your hormones balanced, then work on the crazy horrid hair. *hugs*
thank you, I noticed the worst of the hair as I gained weight, but I can't recall how hairy I was before that, I took it for granted.
I was considering the home ipl systems to save money on multiple laser sessions all over my body but apparently they aren't as good as professional systems (but that opinion could be biased)
I am also hairy as an ape, I feel like chewbacca the majority of the time unless it's right after my de-hairing routine *yuck*0 -
I agree that home systems aren't as good as a professional one. But the ability to treat areas I can't afford professional laser on was worth the risk of it being a complete waste if money.
Like I said it certainly isn't effective on my face but it's also where my hair growth started. I've been waxing tweezing threading and lasering my face since I was 17. I'm 37 now. The areas that are new hair growth (in the last 5 to 10 years) seem to respond to the home system. I can't say the home system will be permanent but it does an OK job 0 -
I agree that home systems aren't as good as a professional one. But the ability to treat areas I can't afford professional laser on was worth the risk of it being a complete waste if money.
Like I said it certainly isn't effective on my face but it's also where my hair growth started. I've been waxing tweezing threading and lasering my face since I was 17. I'm 37 now. The areas that are new hair growth (in the last 5 to 10 years) seem to respond to the home system. I can't say the home system will be permanent but it does an OK job
Good to hear it's somewhat effective, it's better it does an ok job than no job I guess
I'm currently having my 2nd round of laser treatment on my face, I've had 7 sessions so far 4 weeks apart for each session and so far it's reduced but it's still there, I've got my fingers crossed it will work out well enough.
I'd love to be able to try an at home system to see if it would help with my really horrible areas, some you just don't want others to see, even if they'd help you0 -
@A_Dabauer I don't know if you have GroupOn there in Canada, but I've been told you can get some awesome deals using their couponing system for laser hair removal. Good luck to both of you. I'm Polish, so I always assumed some of this was just heredity, but I've had worse problems on my chin in the last decade. I've got a few other problem areas, too, but nothing near the hell you ladies have suffered! (hugs)0
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@A_Dabauer Just wanted to thank you as your comments about the home IPL/laser treatments have inspired me to go look around and I'm hoping I'll be able to buy one I've found, even if it helps somewhat to reduce the hair I'd be significantly more confident
The one I've found has not a single bad review and is affordable, so fingers crossed I can get one and it will work well enough 0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »@A_Dabauer I don't know if you have GroupOn there in Canada, but I've been told you can get some awesome deals using their couponing system for laser hair removal. Good luck to both of you. I'm Polish, so I always assumed some of this was just heredity, but I've had worse problems on my chin in the last decade. I've got a few other problem areas, too, but nothing near the hell you ladies have suffered! (hugs)
Oh I agree with this!
I got my first 6 sessions on a groupon offer for £99 for all 6 0 -
This has also been a problem for me, my chin and neck especially. It's not awful enough that some good tweezers and time can't fix but my doctor also prescribed Spironolactone to help hinder any new hair growth. I've been on it for about two months now and am finally noticing some difference. Unfortunately it doesn't help what's already grown, so I still need to tweeze. At some point laser hair removal will be in my future too. May be something to ask about? Good luck!0
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This has also been a problem for me, my chin and neck especially. It's not awful enough that some good tweezers and time can't fix but my doctor also prescribed Spironolactone to help hinder any new hair growth. I've been on it for about two months now and am finally noticing some difference. Unfortunately it doesn't help what's already grown, so I still need to tweeze. At some point laser hair removal will be in my future too. May be something to ask about? Good luck!
My doc put me on Metformin AND Spiro at the same time, and I experienced super heavy duty dehydration. Due to personal reasons, I stopped the Metformin (will discuss with my doc when I see him next month), but I stopped the Spiro after two months due to dehydration. I'm wondering if I should give it a try again since I stopped the Metformin...or just wait to see him again. I still have a full month bottle and a few pills from the previous month.... SIGH
NOTE: Doc put me on Spiro for acne management more than hair issues. But I didn't notice any changes, but my body was in major flux change mode, and I don't know that I gave it a chance to catch up.0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »This has also been a problem for me, my chin and neck especially. It's not awful enough that some good tweezers and time can't fix but my doctor also prescribed Spironolactone to help hinder any new hair growth. I've been on it for about two months now and am finally noticing some difference. Unfortunately it doesn't help what's already grown, so I still need to tweeze. At some point laser hair removal will be in my future too. May be something to ask about? Good luck!
My doc put me on Metformin AND Spiro at the same time, and I experienced super heavy duty dehydration. Due to personal reasons, I stopped the Metformin (will discuss with my doc when I see him next month), but I stopped the Spiro after two months due to dehydration. I'm wondering if I should give it a try again since I stopped the Metformin...or just wait to see him again. I still have a full month bottle and a few pills from the previous month.... SIGH
NOTE: Doc put me on Spiro for acne management more than hair issues. But I didn't notice any changes, but my body was in major flux change mode, and I don't know that I gave it a chance to catch up.
Spiro is a water pill, so it's very likely the primary cause of your dehydration issues. I'd say wait and talk to your doctor.0 -
I started laser more than 10 years ago. Jawline/chin, throat, chest, shoulders, breasts, and whole leg. Splurged with a groupon and did the beginning hairs in my 'mustache' and underarms.
Best money I ever spent on myself, and I don't regret a single penny of it. In fact, when I can wrangle up the cash, I'm going for more treatments on my legs to get the ones that were 'missed' in small patches. Like the one hair on my ankle. LOL0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »This has also been a problem for me, my chin and neck especially. It's not awful enough that some good tweezers and time can't fix but my doctor also prescribed Spironolactone to help hinder any new hair growth. I've been on it for about two months now and am finally noticing some difference. Unfortunately it doesn't help what's already grown, so I still need to tweeze. At some point laser hair removal will be in my future too. May be something to ask about? Good luck!
My doc put me on Metformin AND Spiro at the same time, and I experienced super heavy duty dehydration. Due to personal reasons, I stopped the Metformin (will discuss with my doc when I see him next month), but I stopped the Spiro after two months due to dehydration. I'm wondering if I should give it a try again since I stopped the Metformin...or just wait to see him again. I still have a full month bottle and a few pills from the previous month.... SIGH
NOTE: Doc put me on Spiro for acne management more than hair issues. But I didn't notice any changes, but my body was in major flux change mode, and I don't know that I gave it a chance to catch up.
Spiro is a water pill, so it's very likely the primary cause of your dehydration issues. I'd say wait and talk to your doctor.
Definitely!! Thanks @Dragonwolf for the reminder. I already struggle with my water most days being Keto! I don't need ANY help there... LOL0 -
I purchased a Groupon deal today myself
was a few places offering deals, I picked the more expensive place as they had better reviews, plus they do electrolysis which since I'm fair some hair may need that added treatment. 0 -
Weight loss didn't help my hair growth. I also use groupon to do laser hair removal.0
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I got a home IPL system!
Fingers crossed it works 0 -
Please come back and let us know how the IPL worked for you. I'd be willing to buy one if I even got 6-8 week reduction, because I know its not permanent.0
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6-8 weeks would be amazing for hairlessness, I'll let you know how it goes, it claims that you'll see results in 4-5 sessions at one session every two weeks but we'll see0
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I finally went to see an Endocrinologist about this issue at the start of March. He asked for a batch of tests (blood, urine, ultra-sound) which took time. Now I'm just waiting to see what he suggests. I'll let you ladies know what he comes up with. 0
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I also use Spironolactone, have for twenty years, and I found myself a good electrolysis technician and have never regretted spending the $$ on that. It's been a long haul for me but these two things helped save my self esteem. I was on the birth control pill for many years and when I had to stop it I was panicked about the hair growth but it wasn't an issue at all. Good luck with the IPL system!0
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Hi
Just back to say that I can see a reduction in hair on some areas if not all that I've used it on, arms especially, I can't say for certain if all areas have as I shave them more often than my arms but I can see the patches of hairlessness on my arms and stomach already and I've been doing it every 2 weeks since I last posted (march 26th) it doesn't take too long to do, you do have to make sure you've got all of the hair though or you end up with patches, which is a little hard with the size of the laser thing, it's only small0 -
Wow. It's scary how similiar our age/body types are. 0_0
I don't have any advice regarding medications, since I haven't been able to take any (long story). However, I have noticed a correlation between my weight and my symptoms. My weight peaked at 175-180, and I started getting hairier at 160. I dropped down to and have been maintaining 138lb for about two years now, although I'm still trying to lose a final 15.
I went from only having four periods a year to being regular for the first time in my life, and my skin has cleared up a lot. Despite the weight loss, however, I'm still not proportionate, with most of my weight going to my stomach. When I was gaining weight, I was consistently getting hairier. While I'm not getting any hairier, the hair pattern that has grown up isn't going away.
I'm hoping losing the final fifteen will put an end to the stomach and the extra hair once and for all. Unfortunately, there's no way of knowing that. If you find a solution, please let me know!0
This discussion has been closed.