Why doesn't God like amputees?
m_a_b
Posts: 71 Member
If you pray to God to lose 1lb in weight at the next weigh in you may, or may not, lose 1lb. If you have no money and pray for it then you may, or may, not get more money. If you're ill and pray to get better then God may, or may not, heal you. However, God never replaces a lost limb. Why do you think that is?
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although he was talking about death i think it applies...a wise man once said...
"sometimes God takes those closest to us, because it makes him feel better about himself. He is a very vengeful God. He's all pissed off about something we did thousands of years ago. He just can't get over it, so he doesn't care who he takes. Children, puppies, it don't matter to him, so long as it makes us sad. Do you understand? "0 -
Amen, Chef.0
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Because we're not starfish!0
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Pick up the latest article of People magazine. There are interviews with people who all lost a limb in the Boston Marathon bombing. Their positive attitudes and gratitude for being alive are amazing. Who are you, who doesn't even believe in God, to tell amputees that God must not love them because they can never grow a limb back? I know you wouldn't actually say this to their face (at least I hope not), but when atheists make this statement, it really pisses me off.
Prayer is not meant to conform God's will to ours, but to conform ours to His. You don't get that.0 -
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just realized this was in a group and not the main forum.
Its just life, bad things happen. Sometimes worse things happen to people. I just hope and pray that me and my family beat the odds and only get minor horrific things happening to us. I just don't think with everything going on in the universe god has much time for limbs. I'd much rather him worry about things like not letting other galaxies crash into ours.
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the good news is that at some point in the not too distant future we will be able to grow the limb back. hopefully it will be the USA that develops it but with our idiotic views on stem cell research it will probably come from over seas.0
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If there was a god he wouldn't hate amputees any more than he hates the people he drops churches on:
the kids he gives terminal diseases to:
or the human race upon itself upon whom he is constantly unleashing new and deadlier diseases:
if there was a god, that is.0 -
awe man...that hospital pic....0
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It may piss you off, but it doesn't change the facts.Who are you, who doesn't even believe in God, to tell amputees that God must not love them because they can never grow a limb back? I know you wouldn't actually say this to their face (at least I hope not), but when atheists make this statement, it really pisses me off.
I'f you look around this site you'll soon find people who say that they've lost weight because they prayed. If you look around the internet you'll find people who say that they won the lottery because they prayed. Others have recovered from terminal, incurable diseases. Others have even come back from the dead. However, not one single amputee has had a limb grow back. My question is, quite simply, why?Prayer is not meant to conform God's will to ours, but to conform ours to His. You don't get that.
So, are you saying that prayer does not work in the way that we were taught? That someone praying to lose weight (for example) is wasting their time? In fact, God will no more answer their prayers as he will those of an amputee?
Are you saying that, when it comes to answering prayers, God acts very much as if he doesn't exist?0 -
You missed my point. What pisses me off is saying God doesn't love amputees. How do you think that makes them feel? Do you realize how many of them are thanking God for life?!? Who are YOU to say they'll never grow a limb back because God doesn't like them?It may piss you off, but it doesn't change the facts.
I was never taught that God answers all prayers. I would hope no one is taught that.So, are you saying that prayer does not work in the way that we were taught?
It is never a waste of time to pray.That someone praying to lose weight (for example) is wasting their time? In fact, God will no more answer their prayers as he will those of an amputee?
Nope. Not saying that. Not sure how you drew that conclusion.Are you saying that, when it comes to answering prayers, God acts very much as if he doesn't exist?0 -
I don't really think that we should pray for ourselves. maybe this is where being Pagan differs from the more mainstream religions. i think that it's acceptable to ask for guidance, but to pray for our own betterment is kind of wrong. you work towards your own betterment. you don't ask to just be GIVEN it.
if a Pagan loses a limb, they don't pray for it back. they learn to be strong without it. to be feirce without it.
a person who simply prays for their own betterment, rages to the skies and demands to be made "better", will not be heard by the gods. but the person who wakes without something they have always had, greives the loss, and works to be better even without? that is a person the gods will hear whisper in a storm. b/c that is a person whom the gods will respect.0 -
I don't know how many Christians who have lost a limb really pray for it to grow back. My father-in-law and brother-in-law have both lost limbs because of diabetes. They have never asked, "Why me"? or thought that God doesn't love them. They pray for strength. They pray for good medical care. They give thanks for their lives and don't complain about not having a limb.if a Pagan loses a limb, they don't pray for it back. they learn to be strong without it. to be feirce without it.0 -
I honestly do not understand how anyone can believe in an interventionist god that answers prayers. I mean, God, give me strength, God, fill me with your love... God, let my dog into heaven... those at least make sense.0
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I don't know how many Christians who have lost a limb really pray for it to grow back. My father-in-law and brother-in-law have both lost limbs because of diabetes. They have never asked, "Why me"? or thought that God doesn't love them. They pray for strength. They pray for good medical care. They give thanks for their lives and don't complain about not having a limb.if a Pagan loses a limb, they don't pray for it back. they learn to be strong without it. to be feirce without it.
my point was more that - in my faith structure - asking for something that you can work towards, or around, or in spite of is never going to be something that the gods hear. OP said that the creator doesn't favor amputees b/c a lost limb won't be grown back upon request.
i also don't believe that the gods aid me in my weight loss (it's my job to get off my own *kitten* and help myself). make me well when i'm sick (i was born in a first world country w/ health insurance, good nutrition and drugs/herbs/vitamins, what more do i expect them to do?). and while i'm sure it's happened in the past, i don't think that they make a habit of raising the dead (not to say i don't believe in near-death experiances, but i beleive that it's the person's & doctor's will and fight that bring them back). so my point was that not every faith accredits everything to the creator.0 -
The whole question is dumb, and a rather poor guise to draw in a heated religious debate.
Biologically, no human can re-grow limbs. As a matter of fact, very few species possess this ability. The logic behind why some species can and some species can't is a matter of genetics and physics.
God helps those who help themselves. Prayer is not a means of instant delivery for all our hearts' desires. It's purpose is to serve as a means of direct communication between ourselves and God so that guidance and direction can be provided to help us attain our hearts' desires on our own. If we do not possess the natural ability to re-grow a limb, prayer is not going to help us attain it. However, if an amputee were to say such prayer, surely they will discover opportunities to obtain prosthetics.0 -
They'll have the exact same opportunities to obtain prosthetics as a Satanist, an atheist, and a Hindu. Prayer won't do anything for them when it comes to healing that injury.The whole question is dumb, and a rather poor guise to draw in a heated religious debate.
Biologically, no human can re-grow limbs. As a matter of fact, very few species possess this ability. The logic behind why some species can and some species can't is a matter of genetics and physics.
God helps those who help themselves. Prayer is not a means of instant delivery for all our hearts' desires. It's purpose is to serve as a means of direct communication between ourselves and God so that guidance and direction can be provided to help us attain our hearts' desires on our own. If we do not possess the natural ability to re-grow a limb, prayer is not going to help us attain it. However, if an amputee were to say such prayer, surely they will discover opportunities to obtain prosthetics.
As for amputees who would be offended by this, most of the ones I know (several - military) think it's rather funny. Yea, they're grateful they're alive but they aren't thanking some god for only taking their legs or their right arm. Frankly, the notion that they should be grateful is far more offensive IMO.0 -
They'll have the exact same opportunities to obtain prosthetics as a Satanist, an atheist, and a Hindu. Prayer won't do anything for them when it comes to healing that injury.The whole question is dumb, and a rather poor guise to draw in a heated religious debate.
Biologically, no human can re-grow limbs. As a matter of fact, very few species possess this ability. The logic behind why some species can and some species can't is a matter of genetics and physics.
God helps those who help themselves. Prayer is not a means of instant delivery for all our hearts' desires. It's purpose is to serve as a means of direct communication between ourselves and God so that guidance and direction can be provided to help us attain our hearts' desires on our own. If we do not possess the natural ability to re-grow a limb, prayer is not going to help us attain it. However, if an amputee were to say such prayer, surely they will discover opportunities to obtain prosthetics.
As for amputees who would be offended by this, most of the ones I know (several - military) think it's rather funny. Yea, they're grateful they're alive but they aren't thanking some god for only taking their legs or their right arm. Frankly, the notion that they should be grateful is far more offensive IMO.
Faith is a matter of personal preference. I'm not an amputee so I have no idea how easy or difficult it is to obtain a prosthetic. I know from my personal experience that the obstacles in my life seem to be less challenging once I have prayed on them. Maybe the experience is the same for people of other faiths. I have no idea. I can only speak from my own experience.
And as far as the 'gratitude' remark that you made, I really don't know why you would make that statement as I said nothing about gratitude, but if I were in the military and had an accident that cost me a limb, I would be absolutely grateful that it didn't cost me my life. I have no idea why gratitude of that nature would ever offend anyone.
But I'll admit that you have some interesting views...0 -
Prayer is not meant to conform God's will to ours, but to conform ours to His. You don't get that.
We are talking about intercessory prayer here. That means it is logically impossible for this statement to be true. The only way intercessory prayer has any chance of existing is if we have the ability through prayer to actually change the mind of god. We have to be able to cause an outcome that would be different from what would have happened in the absence of the prayer.
If god's will is set and what ever will be will be then praying for anything would be a complete waste of time because the outcome would be the same regardless.
Let us not forget that in the bible when god was talking about destroying Sodom and Gamora Lot actually haggled with god about how many righteous people would have to be in the city before he would destroy the place. Lot actually changed his mind and got him to say if only one person was righteous was in the city he would not destroy the city. Well he said that but in actuality he concluded that Lot and his family should just move because he was going to nuke the place. And that is what happened.
Also the limitations of prayer are only defended by the believers because you don't hear crap about the limitations of prayer in the bible. In fact the bible gives you ever impression that there are no limitations on the powers of prayer.
If you have faith the size of a mustard seed you can move mountains. Matthew 17:20
Whatever you ask in prayer shall be given to you. Matthew 21:22
In truth the bible makes it sound like the only prerequisite is faith. The faithful make is sound like the bible is lying. I leave it to you to decide which it is because reality seems to give me every impression that prayer is completely ineffective.0 -
We are talking about intercessory prayer here. That means it is logically impossible for this statement to be true. The only way intercessory prayer has any chance of existing is if we have the ability through prayer to actually change the mind of god. We have to be able to cause an outcome that would be different from what would have happened in the absence of the prayer.
Remember that God does not have time lines like we do. It's not like He made up his mind about something and then heard a prayer. He knew about the prayers before they ever happened.0 -
We are talking about intercessory prayer here. That means it is logically impossible for this statement to be true. The only way intercessory prayer has any chance of existing is if we have the ability through prayer to actually change the mind of god. We have to be able to cause an outcome that would be different from what would have happened in the absence of the prayer.
Remember that God does not have time lines like we do. It's not like He made up his mind about something and then heard a prayer. He knew about the prayers before they ever happened.
Are you a Calvinist?
EDIT: More to the point do you believe in predestination?0 -
Are you a Calvinist?
EDIT: More to the point do you believe in predestination?
No, I'm not a Calvinist. To make a long story short, I don't think Calvin's theology gave sufficient room or a meaningful understanding of human freedom. His focus on God's glory, power, plan, etc., resulted in a one-sided view of the human person, history, God, etc., and does not do justice to the biblical data on these subjects.
Regarding "predestination," this is a highly loaded word. I don't believe in predestination in the Calvinist sense. I do believe history is the outworking of God's eternal plan and that all our free choices are included in that plan. Again being too short in my explanation, I believe in an understanding of predestination that affirms both the providence and all-encompassing plan of God for our history but that also affirms a meaningful and real role for human free acts. (By the way, the word "predestination" is found in the Bible and therefore all Christians must take the concept seriously. See Romans 8, Ephesians 1, etc.)0 -
Quibble: The word "predestined" is found in some English translations of the Bible.0
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http://biblesuite.com/greek/strongs_4309.htm
Strong's Greek: 4309. προορίζω (proorizó) — 6 Occurrences
Acts 4:28 V-AIA-3S
BIB: βουλὴ σου προώρισεν γενέσθαι
NAS: and Your purpose predestined to occur.
KJV: counsel determined before to be done.
INT: purpose of you predetermined to come to pass
Romans 8:29 V-AIA-3S
BIB: προέγνω καὶ προώρισεν συμμόρφους τῆς
NAS: He also predestined [to become] conformed
KJV: also did predestinate [to be] conformed
INT: he foreknew also he predestined [to be] conformed to the
Romans 8:30 V-AIA-3S
BIB: οὓς δὲ προώρισεν τούτους καὶ
NAS: whom He predestined, He also
KJV: whom he did predestinate, them
INT: those whom moreover he predestined these also
1 Corinthians 2:7 V-AIA-3S
BIB: ἀποκεκρυμμένην ἣν προώρισεν ὁ θεὸς
NAS: God predestined before
KJV: God ordained before
INT: hidden which predetermined God
Ephesians 1:5 V-APA-NMS
BIB: προορίσας ἡμᾶς εἰς
NAS: He predestined us to adoption as sons
KJV: Having predestinated us unto
INT: having predestined us for
Ephesians 1:11 V-APP-NMP
BIB: καὶ ἐκληρώθημεν προορισθέντες κατὰ πρόθεσιν
NAS: we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according
KJV: we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to
INT: also we obtained an inheritance having been predestined according to [the] purpose0 -
Are you a Calvinist?
EDIT: More to the point do you believe in predestination?
No, I'm not a Calvinist. To make a long story short, I don't think Calvin's theology gave sufficient room or a meaningful understanding of human freedom. His focus on God's glory, power, plan, etc., resulted in a one-sided view of the human person, history, God, etc., and does not do justice to the biblical data on these subjects.
Regarding "predestination," this is a highly loaded word. I don't believe in predestination in the Calvinist sense. I do believe history is the outworking of God's eternal plan and that all our free choices are included in that plan. Again being too short in my explanation, I believe in an understanding of predestination that affirms both the providence and all-encompassing plan of God for our history but that also affirms a meaningful and real role for human free acts. (By the way, the word "predestination" is found in the Bible and therefore all Christians must take the concept seriously. See Romans 8, Ephesians 1, etc.)
I am content to disregard the label of Calvinist and focus only on the position that you are asserting here which I have put in bold. There is no such thing as this, "...an understanding of predestination that affirms both the providence and all-encompassing plan of God for our history but that also affirms a meaningful and real role for human free acts." and that point is not even debatable. It is completely impossible for this state of affairs to exist in reality.
It would be like saying you believe in a football that is not a football. It is a matter of fact that X cannot be equal to "not X" and it cannot be both equal and not equal at the same time and it can't be neither for that matter.0 -
It is a matter of fact that X cannot be equal to "not X" and it cannot be both equal and not equal at the same time and it can't be neither for that matter.
Remember that you're talking about a religion which claims both "X = 1" and "X = 3".0 -
Yeah I have a problem with that too.
Remember that you're talking about a religion which claims both "X = 1" and "X = 3".It is a matter of fact that X cannot be equal to "not X" and it cannot be both equal and not equal at the same time and it can't be neither for that matter.0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-QIH87SbNk
