LSRs getting slower
jchite84
Posts: 467 Member
Must have been an extra tough winter for me. All of my runs have gotten slower over the winter, which is expected to a certain degree, but my LSRs have gotten ridiculously slow. Last season they at about a 12 -12:30 pace. My last 3 long that I've done (10 miles, 12 miles, and 11.5 miles) have been closer to a 15 minute pace. The last run was mostly on trails which, I know slow me down some, and I was at an 18 minute pace (practically walking?!?). In the past my average trail times at similar distances have been between 12 and 13 minute paces. Anybody else ever gone through something like this? What did you do to bring your pace back up. I'm getting over a pretty nasty sinus infection, and I was experiencing some fatigue for about a week and a half, but I'm pretty much back on schedule with running 3- 4 days per week and lifting 2 days per week.
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Hard to say, my pace will vary a lot based on conditions. Obviously my trail runs are much slower then runs on the road, but my pace will be slowed considerably by heat, humidity, high wind, hard route, use of a hydration bladder and sometimes due to my pre run diet. I keep a running log so I can look at a run and know what went into it. If I have a particularly slow run but I can point to this or that as a cause, I don't worry about it.0
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Shorten the distance and throw in some fartlek to promote leg speed.
BTW, I am on the other side of Akron.0 -
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Sounds like you identified all the causes.
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Thanks for the input guys! I'll see how this weekend treats me. I was considering signing up for a 25K in a couple of weeks, and then going back and forth if my times were not going to be up to snuff. I'm going to run as though I'm still training for it and see how I feel!0
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What is important, but not mentioned, is what kind of milage are you doing the other 2 to 3 days a week and at what pace? You need to balance the long run with other aerobic miles.0
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My other runs are either 3, 4, or 5 -6 miles and done at between 10:15 and 11:30 pace. I've pushed myself up to a 9:30 pace on a up to 4 miles when running with a group, but I have trouble pushing myself that hard when I'm running alone.0
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So, it looks like your long run is 50% or more of your total weekly mileage. It's recommended that you keep the long run to no more than 30% of your total weekly mileage. More mileage during the week at an easy run pace (no need to "push" the pace. It's counterproductive) would go a long way toward improving your overall fitness and your ability to complete the long run at the same pace as your easy runs.0
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CarsonRuns wrote: »So, it looks like your long run is 50% or more of your total weekly mileage. It's recommended that you keep the long run to no more than 30% of your total weekly mileage. More mileage during the week at an easy run pace (no need to "push" the pace. It's counterproductive) would go a long way toward improving your overall fitness and your ability to complete the long run at the same pace as your easy runs.
I can attest to the fact that long runs are much easier when done in a corresponding week of daily run volume. A 20 miler in a 70 mile week is simple in terms of performance and recovery when compared to doing it on a 45 mile week.
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You sound fatigued to me. I second the other suggestions to up your mileage during the week so your long runs are more balanced overall in your training. You could also try doing your long runs by time rather than distance for a while -- the aerobic & strengthening benefits will still set in with 90min-2hr runs, but they won't wear you down like a strict mile goal can at a slow pace.
And take some rest days! It's totally okay to skip a run here and there if the fatigue/strain on your body will outweigh the benefit. One run will never make your training, but one run can break it.0 -
SonicDeathMonkey80 wrote: »CarsonRuns wrote: »So, it looks like your long run is 50% or more of your total weekly mileage. It's recommended that you keep the long run to no more than 30% of your total weekly mileage. More mileage during the week at an easy run pace (no need to "push" the pace. It's counterproductive) would go a long way toward improving your overall fitness and your ability to complete the long run at the same pace as your easy runs.
I can attest to the fact that long runs are much easier when done in a corresponding week of daily run volume. A 20 miler in a 70 mile week is simple in terms of performance and recovery when compared to doing it on a 45 mile week.
I appreciate these tips and would like to incorporate some of these rules of thumb, but my question is: when you're slow (like me), how to find the time for that kind of mileage?? I'm shooting for 40mpw just based in the time I have for running, but I have more time Sat and Sun and might want to try for 15mi one of those days, but oer this recommendation, I need to be getting 50mpw to have a good solid 15mi LSR, but I don't know if I have that much time during the week (I run daily 5-7mi but usu have one shorter day about 3-5). Due to lack of time, in order to get more distance, I need to get faster. How do I get faster? Answer: more distance. Sigh.
Ideas?
(Sorry to thread jack, but thought it might pertain)
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My opinion is that you are much better off training by time rather than aiming for someone else's mileage goal. 70 miles for one person (8 min/mi) might be 9 hours of training. For another (12 min/mi) it's 14 hours of training.
The second training load per week is nearly 60% greater and is as much or more than elites train.
10 to 12 hours per week at the top end is as much as is needed.
Figure out how much time you are running now per week and aim to increase that. Let the mileage fall where it will.
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FromHereOnOut wrote: »SonicDeathMonkey80 wrote: »CarsonRuns wrote: »So, it looks like your long run is 50% or more of your total weekly mileage. It's recommended that you keep the long run to no more than 30% of your total weekly mileage. More mileage during the week at an easy run pace (no need to "push" the pace. It's counterproductive) would go a long way toward improving your overall fitness and your ability to complete the long run at the same pace as your easy runs.
I can attest to the fact that long runs are much easier when done in a corresponding week of daily run volume. A 20 miler in a 70 mile week is simple in terms of performance and recovery when compared to doing it on a 45 mile week.
I appreciate these tips and would like to incorporate some of these rules of thumb, but my question is: when you're slow (like me), how to find the time for that kind of mileage?? ... Due to lack of time, in order to get more distance, I need to get faster. How do I get faster? Answer: more distance. Sigh.
This is exactly the problem I posted in another thread on here so I'm OK with the threadjack
My opinion is that you are much better off training by time rather than aiming for someone else's mileage goal....Figure out how much time you are running now per week and aim to increase that. Let the mileage fall where it will.
Has anyone tried this method? I kind of imagine there's a pace at which it might not work so well, but it's definitely appealing to me when a lot of the advice out there comes from people way faster than I am.
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Matt Fitzgerald's marathon plans (at least in 80/20)are centered around time. The only run that is based on distance is the one weekly LSD.FromHereOnOut wrote: »SonicDeathMonkey80 wrote: »CarsonRuns wrote: »So, it looks like your long run is 50% or more of your total weekly mileage. It's recommended that you keep the long run to no more than 30% of your total weekly mileage. More mileage during the week at an easy run pace (no need to "push" the pace. It's counterproductive) would go a long way toward improving your overall fitness and your ability to complete the long run at the same pace as your easy runs.
I can attest to the fact that long runs are much easier when done in a corresponding week of daily run volume. A 20 miler in a 70 mile week is simple in terms of performance and recovery when compared to doing it on a 45 mile week.
I appreciate these tips and would like to incorporate some of these rules of thumb, but my question is: when you're slow (like me), how to find the time for that kind of mileage?? ... Due to lack of time, in order to get more distance, I need to get faster. How do I get faster? Answer: more distance. Sigh.
This is exactly the problem I posted in another thread on here so I'm OK with the threadjackMy opinion is that you are much better off training by time rather than aiming for someone else's mileage goal....Figure out how much time you are running now per week and aim to increase that. Let the mileage fall where it will.
Has anyone tried this method? I kind of imagine there's a pace at which it might not work so well, but it's definitely appealing to me when a lot of the advice out there comes from people way faster than I am.
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lporter229 wrote: »
Matt Fitzgerald's marathon plans (at least in 80/20)are centered around time. The only run that is based on distance is the one weekly LSD.FromHereOnOut wrote: »SonicDeathMonkey80 wrote: »CarsonRuns wrote: »So, it looks like your long run is 50% or more of your total weekly mileage. It's recommended that you keep the long run to no more than 30% of your total weekly mileage. More mileage during the week at an easy run pace (no need to "push" the pace. It's counterproductive) would go a long way toward improving your overall fitness and your ability to complete the long run at the same pace as your easy runs.
I can attest to the fact that long runs are much easier when done in a corresponding week of daily run volume. A 20 miler in a 70 mile week is simple in terms of performance and recovery when compared to doing it on a 45 mile week.
I appreciate these tips and would like to incorporate some of these rules of thumb, but my question is: when you're slow (like me), how to find the time for that kind of mileage?? ... Due to lack of time, in order to get more distance, I need to get faster. How do I get faster? Answer: more distance. Sigh.
This is exactly the problem I posted in another thread on here so I'm OK with the threadjackMy opinion is that you are much better off training by time rather than aiming for someone else's mileage goal....Figure out how much time you are running now per week and aim to increase that. Let the mileage fall where it will.
Has anyone tried this method? I kind of imagine there's a pace at which it might not work so well, but it's definitely appealing to me when a lot of the advice out there comes from people way faster than I am.
I do use Matt's plan, I did the 2nd half of his level 2 HM plan for the last training cycle and am currently in week 6 of my 2nd cycle. Based on predictions my HM has improved from a 2hr15m predicted to a 2hr6 actual and is currently looking like 1hr56m for the next. I do heaps of easy pace runs building an aerobic base. The plan looks like 4 easy sessions, 1 moderate session, 1 hard session, 1 long run. I am doing 5-6 hours per week for the HM. His FM plan is not significantly different it looks like 7-8hrs for the same point in the programme. For the cost of the book, buy it and read and use it if you feel it would benefit you. It works for me at the moment.
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