squats -- leaning forward

miriaml5

Hi,

I'm doing squats, up to 70 lbs so far. I've noticed where my form breaks down is that I can sometimes tend to lean forward, like a mini good morning. Years ago I hurt my back a little bit (nothing serious) because of this. Any tips to help me stay up straight? Should I de-load? Today I focused a lot on keeping everything tight, which seems to help. The problem only happened on a few reps. I notice I push up through my mid-foot or toes. Should I aim for heels? Sometimes I'm afraid I'll fall over or not be able to get up. Does any have any tips for how to think about this?

DawnEmbers

I'm not sure on the lean forward. My coworker does that but every rep, even with just the bar. It took me a while to get the courage to even mention it. Next time, though, I'm going to film it for her and we'll look it over before trying to figure out how to get her working on the form so she's doing a squat instead of a good morning.

Heels was where the trainer suggested I put my focus, along with making sure my butt is back enough, which sounded funny but it does help me get situated in the beginning. But they also seem to go against the whole letting knees travel much past the toes at the gym I attend for some reason. So, grain of salt with that advice.

If you worry about getting stuck then you may want to get together a plan for what to do in case of failure. Are you using a squat rack or power cage? If you have a place to squat that includes safeties and can't get up, you just let them catch the bar and move out of the way. If you don't have safeties as an option, you can still bail on a lift if you must, it just means a further fall for the weights. So, it depends on your setup how that will go because if it's busy gym and people walking around/behind you then have to be aware of the other factors. At home you may need to make sure the floor can handle the weights too, and what not.

canadianlbs

um. i'm tipping on a couple reps too recently, and trying to figure it out. so, from my thoughts: i think i'm letting my knee angle open up faster than my hips. it may get better whenever i remember to start squeezing my glutes as soon as i've got my upward hip drive started.

i'd try it out and report, but i just got back from the gym. bio-breaks aside, i ain't squatting NOTHING for another two days.

miriaml5

yeah I really don't know how to get up for failure. as for squat rack or power cage, I'm not sure the difference?? My gym has different ones and I sometimes use whatever's free. but when I feel I'm going to fall I'm usually on the way up, not totally at the bottom (which is when I tend to lean forward, I think.)

@DawnEmbers: I heard the knees past the toes thing is not a big deal. So maybe go with the first bit of advice.
I remmeber I used to squat with my weight in my heels but now I feel almost scared to! Another thing I am trying to do is get the bar low enough on my back so the weight will be balanced better.

canadianlbs: I guess remembering to squeeze flutes is good too!

Fittreelol

Leaning over or knees going over toes can both be problematic depanding on what type of squat you're doing. Are you doing high bar or low bar? You should always push through your heels.

mirrim52

What helped me was making sure I was keeping my chest up, and concentrating on thinking about my whole body coming up out of the bottom, not just pushing with my legs. When I find it happening now, it is often when I stop at the bottom of the squat instead of having a smooth transition from down to up, or when I let my core lose it's tightness.

Your weight should be centred over your mid-foot, so you will be using your whole foot. Now, whether you tip forward because your weight is over your toes, or your weight is over you toes because you tip forward, that is hard to say without seeing you.

canadianlbs

just dropping this copy-paste snip from here. i bolded the section that caught my eye.

"" In contrast, the low bar squat maintains tension throughout the descent, creates a stretch reflex to “bounce” off the tense hamstrings, and then utilizes the hamstrings to extend the hip. During the ascent, the quads obviously extend the knee, but they help create balance around the knee so that the hip drive doesn’t tip the torso forward (the torso obviously needs to maintain it’s angle out of the hole). ""

might not apply if you squat with a high bar, but anyway.

threnjen

I always think about sticking my butt out behind me when I squat. Sometimes when my form flags because I am tired I can tell I am too far forward. But I don't have a concrete "how" or "why" - I can just tell that I didn't put my body out back far enough. Probably just a simple feeling that my balance is totally off.
I always put all my weight on my heels. Occasionally my toes will pop up and I have to readjust because I leaned so heavily to my heels.
Are you low bar or high bar? It makes a difference for your gravity center.

DawnEmbers

From my experience the difference between the two include:

Power cage is harder to maneuver a bar out of to use for other things. It has the four posts and two rails that go between them on each side, which can be moved higher or lower depending on the lift being performed and personal preference. The parts that hold the bar also can be moved. Good part is to bail you just sink down or let go of the bar and the rails catch it, plus since the posts are there, the bar won't go anyways except maybe roll a little on the rails but won't fall off the rails if.

Squat rack tends to not have the posts. The spots to rest the bar are fixed and not moveable in the one we have at the gym. It can have an attached section that works as a safety but they don't move either so If you hit them when trying to get depth can be jarring. To bail on the lift, if you're able to use the safeties, you can also just sink down and let that section catch the bar. But tends to have less space available than power cage and if you can't use that part in order to get depth, bail can mean drop to the floor.

At least, those are the two types I have seen at the gym I attend. My coworker's tiny gym just has a power cage (well and a smith machine but not counting that for this comparison).

miriaml5

Low bar or high bar-- to be honest I wasn't really conscious of this until recently and I'm still not 100% sure on the differences. I'm trying to put the bar lower now because for high bar you are supposed to be even more upright, I think, and I don't think I can do that.

My gym has one power cage and the rest squat racks, I think. I use the power cage when it's free 'cause it seems safer. By drop to the floor you mean what?? how do you drop the weight off your back?? am a little worried about this.

I have really poor dorsiflextion and that has been a problem for awhile. I don't know if that's inhibiting me. I also squat in running shoes (I know you're not supposed to) just because it's what I have at the moment & wonder that will change things if I can manage to switch to canvas shoes. It's kind of a pain though.

Basically it seems that so many moving parts go together that it is hard to make it work! So so far I have-- sit back, tighten up, chest up, knees out, squeeze glutes (this autocorrected to flutes, LOL), weight in heels, have whole body come up.

canadianlbs

miriaml5 wrote: »

(this autocorrected to flutes, LOL)

i saw that they're a firestorm of info, squats are. on the low bar placement, this video gets re-posted a lot, but you may not have seen it yet and it was very helpful to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2tyOLvArw0

Fittreelol

I think someone mentioned the bar should be over mid foot. Leaning or knees going over toes only matters if the bar path doesn't stay over mid foot. Many people get confused over what mid foot means, however, because they think about the part they can see while looking down vs the whole foot.

Here is a handy picture.

MissHolidayGolightly

I find that when the weight gets a little to heavy for me, I have a tendency to drive up with my rear instead of my hips. Remember to focus on driving with your hips and keeping your chest forward. It helps me to tell myself, "Tits up!"

DawnEmbers

Yeah, drop to the floor is pretty much how it sounds and more of a you do it because you have to situation. That's why options like the cage or rack are better safety wise and less damaging to equipment/floor/others/you. It's more of a last minute, desperate, uh-oh kind of fail. Not recommended but exists. Just like with bench, roll of shame or the "oh $#!!" rack spot are probably better than tilt and let plates drop but all plausible for getting out from the bar when you can't push it back up.

I use sneakers too, though not running specific. I have a really old pair and a pair my mom gave me which I use both for work where I'm on my feet all shift. Now that I'm not doing cardio after lifting, I could probably figure out a different shoe for lifting but I haven't yet as that involves money. Maybe some day I will get flat shoes and micro plates. *dreams*

I actually do high bar. It's what I was shown when I started at the gym and when I asked the guy during a form workshop he didn't seem inclined to want to work on different forms or changing anything up. I hold it low bar for good mornings but for squats except with really light weight when I'm trying to do it on purpose, I do high bar.

SideSteel

It would be a good idea to post a video from the side where the foot/ankle are also visible to assess what's going on. There's a big difference between hips shooting early and doing a "good morning" vs actually having your heels leave the floor and the bar drifting forward of midfoot.