SL 5x5 on a Deficit

GreenIceFloes

Hey guys. I did SL 5x5 last year for a while. I was eating at a slight surplus and got some noob gains, but had to discontinue (long story).

I am going to start lifting again to minimize muscle loss while eating at a 20% deficit. My question is, how should I modify the program? I doubt I'll be able to up the weights by 5 lbs every consecutive workout while eating at lower than maintenance. I'll probably stall within a week or two. Should I increase the weights by a lesser amount, say 2.5 lbs instead of 5? Or should I up them by 5 lbs every two or three workouts instead? Should I play around with the reps/sets? Any suggestions?

And in case it's relevant, I'm 25, 5'8" tall, weigh 161 lbs (down from 192) and eating at a deficit to get down to 140-145 lbs. I have pretty low LBM, and a high BF percentage (don't have numbers to go on, sorry).

Help would be appreciated!

xcalygrl

This is going to sound very vague, but it's going to depend on you.

I started SL when I started a cut. I was able to add weight nearly every workout and didn't stall as fast as I imagined.

Now that my weights are higher, I add weight when I feel like it. For instance, squats are strong for me but my form is crap. I only add weight to them once a week (on Monday) so I can work on form before they get too heavy. I add weight every couple of weeks to bench because it is one of my weaker lifts. I have dropped down on my OHP because i was actually doing a push-press. I haven't been able to add weight to it yet without sacrificing form. My deads have consistently had weight added to them because they are a strong lift for me.

So, with all that said. Play around with it. Try to hit your reps/sets, and if you do, then add weight. You may find that you progress pretty good once you get started.

GreenIceFloes

I like the idea of trial and error here. Guess I'll go according to the program to begin with, and when I stall, I'll play around with it.
Thanks!

xcalygrl

You're welcome! Glad I could help

psych101

I've done most of SLs while having some kind of deficit. Yes I've had to deload at times but I've worked back up again and again. Take it as it comes and see how you go.

CarlydogsMom

GreenIceFloes wrote: »

I like the idea of trial and error here. Guess I'll go according to the program to begin with, and when I stall, I'll play around with it.
Thanks!

I'm just starting a cut (not quite a 20% cut, probably less) after a slow, 6-month bulk (my first). I was (still am) wondering just how it's going to play out. I had a personal trainer for the first six months, now I'm on my own for my cut. My trainer never followed a specific program, other than the general lower-reps/higher-volume, progress in adding weights almost every week (or spend a workout or two working on full sets of reps); every day was a little different and while we concentrated on the big 5 lifts, we did a number of different accessories.

Anyway, what I realized with him--and what I'm sort of sticking to while on my own and on a cut--is in general, if it was a workout that was intended to get a new personal record, or to progress on actual volume, we'd generally do a warm up set of 5 reps/lower weight; then maybe 1 set of 3 reps at 10-20 pounds less than what we'd be aiming for; then one rep at a new, heavier weight (yay!); then maybe try for one more at the new weight; then a couple-three more sets at full reps/lower weight.

Other days we'd do full sets, full reps.

I'm continuing that on my cut. Go three times/week, hit the lifts I consider my Main 3 (squats, bench, overhead) and with those I'll switch around from pushing myself in a sort of pyramid to get a heavier load; or just do my 5x5 and get a good number of reps in. Then I do different types of lats (really, only, because I hate Pendlay or barbell rows...), almost always do some tricep accessory and probably one more lats accessory. Then other various accessories, i.e. hangs, box jumps, leg press, calf raises, dumbbell work, kettlebell deadlifts, whatever, I pick 1-2 of those. I'm not comfortable doing barbell deadlifts on my own yet, but I'll probably stick those in there a couple times a month as they're one of my favorite lifts and I'll probably just go for whatever weight I can do 5 reps at.

So what I've been finding out is that I'm still making gains on my cut. Actually quite well. I may hit a wall at some point, and if I do, I'll figure out what my best 5x5 weights will be and try to maintain some base level until fall, when I start bulk again.

TL:DR: As long as you do the main lifts, keep trying to progress by using a combination of 5x5 or some pyramid sets, and mix it up to find what works for you!

ar9179

You may surprise yourself. I've surprised myself every workout!

I started SL in Feb, while in a deficit of more than 20% (although I've seen the light since then) and have been able to add weight (pretty much) on schedule, lifting 2x/week. I found the 3x/week frequency too taxing and it didn't work with my overall schedule. BP and OHP have seen some stalls, but I continue to make progress. I'm still adding 5 lbs to squats, rows and 10 lbs to DL each workout.

There will be a compromise, whether it's frequency or a slowing of progression. I bet you'll get further than you think, though!

awkwardsoul

I'm doing IIFYM with a 20% fatloss cut, while doing SL. I did SL previously for a couple months and then took a few months off - getting back at it in January.

Admittedly, I'm starting to stall/deload now 4 months in. I don't do any accessory work. I bet you'll do well too since you've done SL before and have understanding of form. For lifts, I only go up 5lbs on DL (once I got close to my PR) and 1.25lbs on OHP, everything else is 5lbs.

I did have to juggle my macros more so I'm not dying on rest days - being on a cut and hangry crazy is the worst, so prepare for that.

arabianhorselover

I was at a deficit more many months, and I still gained a lot of strength.

GreenIceFloes

Thank you so much for such descriptive answers! It's really helped a lot. I'm a little more confident getting into this knowing I can play around with the routine and that a deficit wouldn't compromise my strength gains as much as I'd thought it would. I haven't lifted in like 9 months, I hope I'll get at least some noob gains again! And I think I should practice form with a broom or something before I start on Monday because it's a crappy little excuse for a gym with no proper trainers who can correct me when I go wrong.

LaarainNYC

I'm 12 weeks in on SL, on a 10% deficit.

My progress has been fine. Very slow on the upper body stuff but I expected that. I was weak there even for a female. Fractionals really work for me. There's no way I'll be progressing in 5 lb increments on OP/BP/rows.

GreenIceFloes

Fractionals really work for me

This excuse for a gym has no fractionals, minimum 2.5 kg (5.5 lb) plates. And they don't allow outside equipment either.

LaarainNYC

GreenIceFloes wrote: »

Fractionals really work for me

This excuse for a gym has no fractionals, minimum 2.5 kg (5.5 lb) plates. And they don't allow outside equipment either.

You can bring fractionals in pretty discreetly. They're small. I bought some .5 lb plates on Amazon for $20. They're the size of coasters.

TravelsWithHuckleberry

My guess is they won't balk at you bringing in a set of fractional plates. I got a pair of 1.25 lbs., so I can go up in 2.5 lbs increments. Alternately, you could also request that the gym invest in a few sets.

canadianlbs

worked at my place . . . my request was actually for those big thin 45-sized 10-pound plates, so i could learn my rows and my deadlifts at the right height from the ground, right from the start. i borrowed the trainers' 'special' set for a while then i filled in a comment card and felt like a public benefactor when suddenly there were three sets of them available to the whole world. they get heavy use too.

a commercial gym might have a different ethos, but if you have a solid case for why something would enable more people to lift and get strong, it's always worth pointing it out to someone. especially because 'lifting weights' is such a wide spectrum, it's easy for a place to forget about the different needs at different points on the graph.

MissHolidayGolightly

My gym has a whole list of somewhat crazy rules but thankfully none of them are enforced. No cell phone use, no chalk, no outside equipment, no outside shoes (what?), etc.

krokador

Little late chiming in on this, but my advice would be to see how you do with 5x5, and if you're really not progressing and are feeling super beat up, to drop to 3 sets of 5 instead.

Jason Blaha's 5x5 program is pretty similar to SL, and that is what he suggests for people at a deficit. I wish I'd listened to that advice back when I did do his program, because I seriously ran myself into the ground with it.

Also... no outside equipment sounds like a silly rule. But hey, fractionals aren't that expensive, maybe you could convince the manager to buy a set or 2 for the clientele. Tell them it'll catter more to the female population of the gym? (My gym doesn't have them either, but hey, I can carry my string bag around with all my extra gear in it without trouble so meh. The only time I got a comment was when I was trying to deadlift in socks the one day. I can understand their concern, in a way)

mirrim52

Hrm, this is making me want to suggest bumpers to my gym. It is a women's gym, so I am sure they would get used..

arabianhorselover

canadianlbs wrote: »

worked at my place . . . my request was actually for those big thin 45-sized 10-pound plates, so i could learn my rows and my deadlifts at the right height from the ground, right from the start. i borrowed the trainers' 'special' set for a while then i filled in a comment card and felt like a public benefactor when suddenly there were three sets of them available to the whole world. they get heavy use too.

a commercial gym might have a different ethos, but if you have a solid case for why something would enable more people to lift and get strong, it's always worth pointing it out to someone. especially because 'lifting weights' is such a wide spectrum, it's easy for a place to forget about the different needs at different points on the graph.

arabianhorselover

Good idea. Those would have really helped.

GreenIceFloes

I spoke to the manager, and he told me they do have 500 gram (1 lb) plates, but they've been in storage for ages because nobody uses them haha. I'll make do with those. But I've gotten so out of shape in the past year that I've dedicated this week solely to practicing form and being able to hold different positions without collapsing under my own weight. Seriously, I cannot believe it was even possible to go from being fairly decent at yoga to this level of inflexibility. Apalling. Even bodyweight squats felt taxing up till yesterday. But the good news is that just three days in I feel my stamina increasing and the DOMS is becoming lesser. So this is my warm-up week; the barbell training begins Monday.

@krokador I settled on 3 sets of 5 reps after reading Starting Strength and having a word with my trainer. I think anything more than that at this point is a little too ambitious for me.

@MissHollyGolightly I was in a gym like that last year, but the shoes rule is just overkill. Probably don't want you tracking mud all over their sparkling floors or something. Pretty silly.

MissHolidayGolightly

GreenIceFloes wrote: »

I spoke to the manager, and he told me they do have 500 gram (1 lb) plates, but they've been in storage for ages because nobody uses them haha. I'll make do with those. But I've gotten so out of shape in the past year that I've dedicated this week solely to practicing form and being able to hold different positions without collapsing under my own weight. Seriously, I cannot believe it was even possible to go from being fairly decent at yoga to this level of inflexibility. Apalling. Even bodyweight squats felt taxing up till yesterday. But the good news is that just three days in I feel my stamina increasing and the DOMS is becoming lesser. So this is my warm-up week; the barbell training begins Monday.

@krokador I settled on 3 sets of 5 reps after reading Starting Strength and having a word with my trainer. I think anything more than that at this point is a little too ambitious for me.

@MissHollyGolightly I was in a gym like that last year, but the shoes rule is just overkill. Probably don't want you tracking mud all over their sparkling floors or something. Pretty silly.

Flexibility, unfortunately, is one of those things that you lose if you don't use. If you did yoga well before, it'll probably come back if you keep at it.

The rules were funny because they're completely unenforced. They were posted above an out-of-the-way water fountain and I thought it was a joke. A lot of people use chalk, everyone uses their phone, some people come in with bags of their own equipment - I even saw a guy doing an insanity video on his laptop he brought in , most people don't change their shoes, some go down to socks to deadlift, etc.

krokador

MissHolidayGolightly wrote: »

The rules were funny because they're completely unenforced. They were posted above an out-of-the-way water fountain and I thought it was a joke. A lot of people use chalk, everyone uses their phone, some people come in with bags of their own equipment - I even saw a guy doing an insanity video on his laptop he brought in , most people don't change their shoes, some go down to socks to deadlift, etc.

The shoes rule is a good one. Especially during winter. And trust me, I've dug bits of gravel into my hands doing burpees, I'm all for people not bringing in outside stuff where I'm not expecting it! Now keeping them on I don't really care so much if people have socks. If you're risking breaking your toe it's your own damn problem. The gym has you sign a waiver when you subscribe stating they're not reponsible for any of your injuries (which I'm sure they are glad I signed, ROFL)

krokador

GreenIceFloes wrote: »

@krokador I settled on 3 sets of 5 reps after reading Starting Strength and having a word with my trainer. I think anything more than that at this point is a little too ambitious for me.

It's a good idea to start with what you can handle. No one said it has to be written in stone, either. If you're feeling really good one day (especially as you are starting out) you may want to actually go to 5 sets! Stepping outside the comfort zone is a good thing, as long as you don't overdo it

ohiotubagal

Lots of good info in this thread! I've been doing SL for about a month now and I'm on a 15% deficit (not that I've been losing...you can't binge twice a week and still lose...) Anyway, I've found I can only increase 5 pounds every other time, and even then I'm struggling on the upper body stuff. I have definitely noticed the start of muscle definition and everything feels firmer in general. Yay!

Good luck wading through it.

GreenIceFloes

Good luck wading through it.

Thanks!