Power Meter Data

verdemujer

So - I successfully used that Power Meter Data Ap. [Don't shoot me for not buying an actual meter. Funding wins out.] I would have this question no matter where the data comes from. How do I interpret this information? What does this mean?

At the moment, on the new bike, the phone is in my bag and not where I can see this info as its working. Is this information I need to be looking at as I ride?

veloman21

Without actually measuring power or even HR, the calculated power figures are probably useless.

verdemujer

Well -- I was reading all the reviews of the app before I downloaded it and some folks were running actual power meters along side the app and they stated it was surprisingly similar data. No HR stuff though. That will be coming with a different device in the future because that's the other data set I want to track. But I just can't spend the money they want for a power meter. I'm not going to be riding in races. The app made me put in my age/weight, bike type, bike weight, and wheel data and then it tracks me off GPS the whole time.

TheBigYin

verdemujer wrote: »

The app made me put in my age/weight, bike type, bike weight, and wheel data and then it tracks me off GPS the whole time.

In fairness, it'll probably be about as accurate as Strava's "guesswork" power calculations are (if you're not using a real power meter, Strava calculates a "virtual power" figure based on your weight, speed etc. and bases it's calorie calculations on that...)

As to how meaningful or useful the data actually is, i'd say not very... Even "Real" power meter data is only useful IF you have the knowledge to read it, interpret it, and use it to move toward your goals... Without the knowledge, it's just expensive bike jewellery. Grab a copy of "the power meter handbook" by Joe Friel, and "Training and Racing with a Power Meter" by Allen and Coggan from the library, read them, read them a second time, then decide if power meter data is likely to be of any use to you.

sufferlandrian

Calculated power data is useful for measuring progress so as a snap shot, it's not much use. If you continue to use it, it can help you calculate your progress. On the other hand, a power meter allows you to see your power use while you are on the bike. It lets you make adjustments faster than a HR will allow. Calculated power isn't completely useless. It's just another measuring stick. However, a single use is not worth much. Once you have a pattern, you can gauge how well your training is going a bit different than with just time and speed.

veloman21

I probably should not have used the word 'useless.' As TBY said the results will be as good as Strava's virtual power so you will have some sort of value, which as Sufferlandrian says, can help shows possible general improvement over time but there is just so much noise that I'm not really sure the values have much value other than being a number.

The problem is that there are a number of variables that can effect the result which the app has no idea about.

For instance let's take that bane of cyclists everywhere, wind. Let's say you ride the same 10 mile route three times. On the first ride the wind is at your back, on the second ride it is in your face and the third ride it is calm. The app has no idea what the wind is doing so it cannot factor that in but the reality is that the wind can have a huge effect on the power needed to maintain a certain pace. This is a real world situation and one that makes the values meaningless to me. The books TBY mentioned are excellent and I do use power in my training regimen so for me, unless it is measured it has rather limited value.

The good news is that power meters are coming down in price fast. What used to be $1500 a couple of years ago is now selling for half that. There will be a number of PM's available this year at the sub $400 level and probably sub $250 next year. Prices will continue to plummet and it wouldn't surprise me to see a sub $100 PM soon.

On a side note, I also bought a PowerCal unit which I use as a back up PM. It is basically a HRM that uses special software algorithms to measure time between beats and other data and then calks the power value. It is not very good for things like interval training but for overall average power on a 2-3 hour ride it has always been within about 5% of my power meter. Plus of course you get HR data too. You can buy it for about $100 I believe.

TheBigYin

veloman21 wrote: »

On a side note, I also bought a PowerCal unit which I use as a back up PM. It is basically a HRM that uses special software algorithms to measure time between beats and other data and then calks the power value. It is not very good for things like interval training but for overall average power on a 2-3 hour ride it has always been within about 5% of my power meter. Plus of course you get HR data too. You can buy it for about $100 I believe.

I've also got the Powercal belt, and it's not bad at all for the money, especially as you say, for getting a "normalised power" figure and half-sensible TSS scores out of a bike that doesn't have a "real" powermeter.

Dave2041

This looks terribly out and i'd be very cautious about treating the data provided seriously. Pulling away from the lights i can easily hit 700w - 1000w (not a brag) and i'm sure you could too. I'd be very dubious about this. Do yourself a favor and get a heart rate monitor as it's very cheap compared to power and allows much more accurate training and progress monitoring!

verdemujer

Thank you everyone for your advice. Its all helpful.

matsprt1984

I have watched this thread with interest. These pop up from time to time and are always interesting. Some good info and some irrelevant info.

I would ask what is your goal ?? Why do you think power data will help you achieve it and how do you plan to use that data to achieve it ?? Armed with answers from the above questions you can then make good decisions about what you need PM wise. Quality training is simply time and intensity and variations on this. Power is just the latest metric to be used to guage how you are doing with respect to intensity. Power is a little better than HR for several reasons but either can be used.

One word of caution. Do not get caught up in the number game. A post above mentions 700-1000 watts coming off a stop. Not relevant to you, some 27 year old male cat 3 of unknown weight and fitness willl not compare to your numbers. I'm chuckling at how many testosterone driven guys here are out trying to see how they compare...useless. Weight, sex, age, height and fitness all impact watts. It is a personal metric only good for your training.

So after all the above dribble, it falls on you, what is your goal and how can power help you attain it, or can it ??

ntnunk

matsprt1984 wrote: »

One word of caution. Do not get caught up in the number game. A post above mentions 700-1000 watts coming off a stop. Not relevant to you, some 27 year old male cat 3 of unknown weight and fitness willl not compare to your numbers. I'm chuckling at how many testosterone driven guys here are out trying to see how they compare...useless. Weight, sex, age, height and fitness all impact watts. It is a personal metric only good for your training.

^^ This. Well said, and worth repeating often.

Dave2041

matsprt1984 wrote: »

I have watched this thread with interest. These pop up from time to time and are always interesting. Some good info and some irrelevant info.

I would ask what is your goal ?? Why do you think power data will help you achieve it and how do you plan to use that data to achieve it ?? Armed with answers from the above questions you can then make good decisions about what you need PM wise. Quality training is simply time and intensity and variations on this. Power is just the latest metric to be used to guage how you are doing with respect to intensity. Power is a little better than HR for several reasons but either can be used.

One word of caution. Do not get caught up in the number game. A post above mentions 700-1000 watts coming off a stop. Not relevant to you, some 27 year old male cat 3 of unknown weight and fitness willl not compare to your numbers. I'm chuckling at how many testosterone driven guys here are out trying to see how they compare...useless. Weight, sex, age, height and fitness all impact watts. It is a personal metric only good for your training.

So after all the above dribble, it falls on you, what is your goal and how can power help you attain it, or can it ??

Really didn't mean that as a brag! I was just saying that i wouldn't trust the max or avg figures shown in the screenshot that's all.

verdemujer

matsprt1984 wrote: »

So after all the above dribble, it falls on you, what is your goal and how can power help you attain it, or can it ??

I know the app is called a power meter but what I was and am really looking for is a cadence counter. When riding up a hill, I need to focus on my revolutions and counting them within 15 sec or what ever and doing the math isn't something I can do while riding. Depending on the hill, I may be gasping for breath too much. The power stuff - I could really care less about that. What I want is to figure out how to achieve that easier, effortless looking (ha!) ride up the more basic hills around my area. So I'm really looking for cadence.

matsprt1984

I know the app is called a power meter but what I was and am really looking for is a cadence counter. When riding up a hill, I need to focus on my revolutions and counting them within 15 sec or what ever and doing the math isn't something I can do while riding. Depending on the hill, I may be gasping for breath too much. The power stuff - I could really care less about that. What I want is to figure out how to achieve that easier, effortless looking (ha!) ride up the more basic hills around my area. So I'm really looking for cadence.

You don't mention what if any bike computer you currently have now so I will assume nothing. If I was starting out and on a budget I would buy a Garmin Edge 500 bundle. It will come with HR strap and should have a GSC10 for cadence and speed. It is a GPS computer and will upload all your rides to Garmin Connect (free). It is ANT+, so should you decide in the future to get an actual PM it should pair. All this for <$200 and I've seen the bundles for $150-$160 range these days. This is a very solid dependable bike computer which is still being used by some of the pros.

To your answer about wanting to address cadence...yup. One of the most overlooked aspects of cycling by the general public. A smooth comfortable cadence is crucial to long enjoyable injury free rides. The only way to get what you want is practice and maybe some smaller gears (:_))). I would suggest you start by riding on the flats in one gear lower than you would normally ride. Just sit and spin along easy like. Let your legs slowly get used to turning over the gear a little faster than they are used to. This can take some time (several months) but it will improve. Then when you start climbing do the same thing, climb in one gear lower than what you would normally climb in. It will improve.

With a 500 on your handlebars you can set one of the display windows for cadence and see where you are at any time. Then upload your ride and see what your ride average is. If you want to improve / increase your cadence you can do it. The above would be my suggestion to accomplish that goal.

verdemujer

Thank you @matsprt1984

Dahamac

My Christmas present for 2014 was a PowerTap Wheelset. For $800US, I got two 32 spoke wheels, A power meter, and a head unit that would work for recording ride data. The only thing not included was a heart rate monitor but any ant+ HR monitor would work with the computer. The PowerTap Hub also measures cadence. So, if you didn't need the Garmin for maps and routing the PowerTap Wheelset package isn't a bad way to go to get into power. I will also say that you need to read the books on training with power to get your bang for the buck.

However, since I already have a Garmin 800; I am seriously considering the PowerCal belt for my other two bikes since swapping the rear wheel gets tedious on the bike with fenders and the other is a disc brake wheel that won't swap.

BTW, I hit a record high 1350w on a playful county line sprint. I lost the sprint to a 100lb female who's max wattage is 550w. You will learn that the power to weight ratio means far more than just raw wattage. At 220lbs, my power to weight ratio is still less than the 100lb cyclists.