I'm pretty confused about my proper "Easy Pace"
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WhatMeRunning
Posts: 3,538 Member
I'm trying to build my aerobic base and determine how slow my proper "easy pace" should be. I can figure this by HR or by recent run times, with help from calculators and info online.
So, my aerobic HR zone is roughly in the 141-153bpm range. (43 yo/male, resting heart rate 50).
My last few easy runs were as follows:
4 miles @ 10:57/mi, avg HR 151
10 miles @ 12:28/mi, avg HR 153
4 miles @ 11:38/mi, avg HR 150
I paced myself on those runs based on feel after my last two half marathons running with a pace group and able to chat with people around me. Avg pace at each was 12:02/mi and 12:22/mi.
If I look at suggested pace time for an easy run though, everything I've looked at gives me ranges between 13 and 15 mins/mile, quite a bit slower than the paces from my HR zones. An example is the Runners Connect Long Run Pace Calculator where I plugged in my fastest times for two distances below:
5k - 33:20 - suggested long run pace 13:25 to 15:00
Half Marathon - 2:38:09 - suggested long run pace 13:50 to 15:30
The main reason I am even asking is that it seems that most suggest determining your Easy Pace by time than by HR, since HR baselines can vary throughout the day and over time.
So if you were in my shoes, would you go by something in the 12:30ish/mi range (from HR data) or just go with the efforts determined by pace calculators and run (or walk really) at 14 mins/mile?
So, my aerobic HR zone is roughly in the 141-153bpm range. (43 yo/male, resting heart rate 50).
My last few easy runs were as follows:
4 miles @ 10:57/mi, avg HR 151
10 miles @ 12:28/mi, avg HR 153
4 miles @ 11:38/mi, avg HR 150
I paced myself on those runs based on feel after my last two half marathons running with a pace group and able to chat with people around me. Avg pace at each was 12:02/mi and 12:22/mi.
If I look at suggested pace time for an easy run though, everything I've looked at gives me ranges between 13 and 15 mins/mile, quite a bit slower than the paces from my HR zones. An example is the Runners Connect Long Run Pace Calculator where I plugged in my fastest times for two distances below:
5k - 33:20 - suggested long run pace 13:25 to 15:00
Half Marathon - 2:38:09 - suggested long run pace 13:50 to 15:30
The main reason I am even asking is that it seems that most suggest determining your Easy Pace by time than by HR, since HR baselines can vary throughout the day and over time.
So if you were in my shoes, would you go by something in the 12:30ish/mi range (from HR data) or just go with the efforts determined by pace calculators and run (or walk really) at 14 mins/mile?
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You said that you ran your half marathons 'with a pace group and able to chat with people around [you]'. That is why the pace calculators give you a slower pace than your real 'easy' pace; if you enter your half marathon time, those calculators assume that you raced the half as fast as you could. So of course they will assume that, if half marathon pace is hard, your easy run pace must be much slower. If you were NOT, in fact, racing those half marathons, you won't get a meaningful pace calculation from them. Use your comfortable conversational pace (the HR one).0
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I think we can all get carried away with the numbers. To me I calculate an easy pace as if I can hold a conversation comfortably. Going by your specific mile time can be a bit of a distraction as this can change due to terrain and if you're running on tired legs or even the wind speed, for example yesterday I ran 15 miles today I ran 8 at an easy pace that pace was around a minute slower than my easy pace if my legs hadn't been tired from yesterdays run. Hope that makes sense. That's just my opinion on it0
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I would go out and race a 5k, as hard as you can and use that. It seems as though you want to train to race and then not race it. I respect your decision to either race or socialise, but your training will reflect that too, if you use your socialising times to determine your training. Have fun with whatever you decide to do.0
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That makes sense.You said that you ran your half marathons 'with a pace group and able to chat with people around [you]'. That is why the pace calculators give you a slower pace than your real 'easy' pace; if you enter your half marathon time, those calculators assume that you raced the half as fast as you could. So of course they will assume that, if half marathon pace is hard, your easy run pace must be much slower. If you were NOT, in fact, racing those half marathons, you won't get a meaningful pace calculation from them. Use your comfortable conversational pace (the HR one).
I was trying to make sure I would finish and thought I was challenging myself by running with the 2:45 pace group Since my first half last year took 3 hours. I wound up finishing ahead of the pace group by a couple minutes and I ran a bit faster the next weekend making the 2:38 time. I was still able to chat with people around me though.
I guess I should probably be trying to figure out my "race pace" instead!
I may still be training too fast, maybe. Seems my easy runs should be in my "rrecovery zone" instead of "aaerobic zone" which for me would be 128 to 140bpm. That might explain why my last two easy runs were not so easy.0 -
Thanks. I definitely see now that I need a real 5k race time to start figuring this out. I just don't have enough data yet.I would go out and race a 5k, as hard as you can and use that. It seems as though you want to train to race and then not race it. I respect your decision to either race or socialise, but your training will reflect that too, if you use your socialising times to determine your training. Have fun with whatever you decide to do.
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Out of curiosity I took my 2:38 HM time as an assumed upper aerobic pace which matched some of my recent long run paces with HRM data. I then started plugging in HM times in the Jack Daniel's Training Tables spreadsheet to see what HM time gave me an upper aerobic pace matching that number. I came up with a HM time of 2:28 doing this.
I have a half coming up on Saturday where I had planned on lining up with the 2:35 pace group to bump up my time. Based on this I am thinking I will line up with the 2:30 pacers instead and just go for it!0 -
One of the things we were encouraged to do to set ergo times when we started was to use the last average split for 90% and go for it in the last 10%. Easy session paces were calculated of those near maximal scores. Then use that average next time out.
For my first HM I went out for the first half at a pace I knew I would survive and then kept bumping up the pace in the 2nd half of the race. It took a doable 2:15 down to a 2:06. To set benchmarks for me, I have found parkrun in the UK invaluable and in a month that has taken a 27:54 5k time down to 24:16, just by having someone to chase. I have been using Matt Fitzgerald 80/20 and the McMillan paces for my HM training.
Now is not the time to be messing about with training plans, save that for the following week or when you start your next training cycle. Good luck with your HM.0 -
Thanks for the insights. The reason I was trying to figure all this out was for after my upcoming halfs over the next few weeks. I figured I would do a week or two recovery and then start up training with the focus on building up my weekly miles from 20 to...well...as high as I can. I would like to train for a full marathon next year if I can get the weekly mileage up comfortably enough, along with speed by next spring.Now is not the time to be messing about with training plans, save that for the following week or when you start your next training cycle. Good luck with your HM.0 -
I use HR exclusively to set my easy run pace and it seems to be giving me steady improvement.
For me easy run pace is 77% max HR (from 80/20 Running) = 129
or MAF, 180-age+5 = 130
or 85% of LT as calculated by Friel = 129
So, all right about the same. Using this my easy run pace has improved from a 12 min/mi to about a 9:45 min/mi in the past 11 weeks. (starting from zero fitness after a 15 month break).
My guess is that if you are 43 and your easy run pace is at 150 bpm you are running too hard. It probably should be a whole lot closer to 140 bpm. By slowing it down you can run more often and longer (in time) and probably achieve better improvement.0 -
grimmeanor wrote: »
I have a half coming up on Saturday where I had planned on lining up with the 2:35 pace group to bump up my time. Based on this I am thinking I will line up with the 2:30 pacers instead and just go for it!
I say "Go for it!". Last fall I was trying to determine a good half marathon pace and one of the more experienced runners on here suggested I go out at an 8 minute mile and see how long I could hang on because a HM is not a long enough distance to really hit the wall and end up in a death march to the finish. I ended up taking his advice and hung on at that pace the whole time and even finished my last mile at a 7:30. I ended up with a time of 1:43:57 which was over an 8 minute PR. I was absolutely shocked! I never would have dreamed of going out at that pace if it wasn't suggested. My point here is that you shouldn't be afraid to challenge yourself. You might be surprised at what you can do. If your past HMs have all been at conversational paces, you probably have a lot more in you than you think.0 -
lporter229 wrote: »grimmeanor wrote: »If your past HMs have all been at conversational paces, you probably have a lot more in you than you think.
I agree. I've only done one HM but conversation was the last thing on my mind. It should be run just at or just under LT pace which is going to feel pretty difficult holding on to for that long.0 -
LT is a bit too "hot" for a half marathon. If you are truly running at your LT pace you won't be able to sustain that more more than an hour or so. A 10k is an LT-pace run.
A half marathon is more appropriately run at "sub-LT" pace - so maybe 85% of your LT. You should be just on the edge of comfortable, verging on not comfortable.
A half marathon might be ab LT-pace run for the elite of the elite. The guys running <70 minutes. But then they are also in the super-LT for a 10k.0 -
Yep, I think I have just figured that out since posting (finally). For whatever reason I had it in my head that easy runs should be in my aerobic zone of 141-153. But since asking here I am learning that I should be doing these one zone lower in the Recovery zone which for me is 126-140.My guess is that if you are 43 and your easy run pace is at 150 bpm you are running too hard. It probably should be a whole lot closer to 140 bpm. By slowing it down you can run more often and longer (in time) and probably achieve better improvement.
It's a bit irritating because that means I have spent quite a few weeks doing junk miles in a way, doing these runs in the "grey area". Not getting as much benefit as I could.
Seeing how much you sped up in 11 weeks is pretty amazing! I am gathering all of this info to build a training plan starting in late June. I might not really seem to speed up running in the heat, but I will be curious to see what things are like in the fall when I have some other races planned.0 -
In my experience, running an easier easy run pace works mainly because you can run a whole lot, and still recover and improve in between runs. I'm not sure it would work as well for me if I was running less.0
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In my experience, running an easier easy run pace works mainly because you can run a whole lot, and still recover and improve in between runs. I'm not sure it would work as well for me if I was running less.
Yea. Miles on the legs is what matters for long-distance running. If you try to run all of your runs at a fast-ish pace you will burn out or become injured, for no extra benefit. If most of your running is done at an easy pace, and you save the speed work for only once (or twice if experienced) a week, you are much more likely to get to the start line on your race uninjured and in a well-trained state to run fast.
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Up to now I could not seem to do more than 3 runs per week without feeling pretty beat up. Now I know why.
This new plan I have been trying to figure out (from Runner's World Smartcoach) has me starting out at 4 runs per week and then moving to 5/week after a few weeks. The thing that was really bugging me was their recommendation of 14-15 minute pace runs (seemed far too slow) for all except the one day per week that alternates between tempo and interval runs. However, now that I have adjusted based on my "slow run half marathons" and what my race time might be... things are looking pretty realistic and sensible in my opinion now.
I'm really glad I had this place as a sounding board. I should probably just hire a coach at some point!0
