Beginner Qs: 5X5 vs 3x5, accessory lifts etc? Help!
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alisaglem
Posts: 36 Member
Thank you for starting this awesome group. I've read as much as I could about SL from the posts here as well as Mehdi's site, but I'm still not clear. I'm a little OCD to doing things right, so help please!
I just started SL last week and did one workout A and workout B and already ran into the problem of not being able to do the OHP with 45lbs, so I finished the last set with 40.
1. First question then is how do I up the weights if all my gym has is 2.5 lbs and obviously I can't lift 45 5X5, which would be my next progression. Is it worth investing in fractional plates at this point in time?
2. When does one decide if they should do 5X5 vs 3X5? When the weight gets too heavy? You have low energy?
3. When does a cycle end? 12 weeks? Or again when you feel like you are low energy?
4. Accessory lifts: what are they? Necessary?
5. How much ab work to incorporate?
6. How much cardio? Is it ok to do HIIT on days off? What about yoga? Does that mean I'm not resting the muscles?
Oy vey, that's a ton of questions, but to all you experience awesome amazing ladies who do this, I thank you and appreciate the help!
I just started SL last week and did one workout A and workout B and already ran into the problem of not being able to do the OHP with 45lbs, so I finished the last set with 40.
1. First question then is how do I up the weights if all my gym has is 2.5 lbs and obviously I can't lift 45 5X5, which would be my next progression. Is it worth investing in fractional plates at this point in time?
2. When does one decide if they should do 5X5 vs 3X5? When the weight gets too heavy? You have low energy?
3. When does a cycle end? 12 weeks? Or again when you feel like you are low energy?
4. Accessory lifts: what are they? Necessary?
5. How much ab work to incorporate?
6. How much cardio? Is it ok to do HIIT on days off? What about yoga? Does that mean I'm not resting the muscles?
Oy vey, that's a ton of questions, but to all you experience awesome amazing ladies who do this, I thank you and appreciate the help!
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Replies
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Hello
I've only done 6 works outs and loving it - but wanted to say Hi and welcome
1.My first thought would be - start lighter - I think Mehedi says start at 50% of your max or with an empty bar. The aim is to build up so you get stronger, if you start too heavy you will run out of places to go pretty quickly (which personally would discourage me).
For the rest 2-6 - I'll let the wise folk here guide you.
Good luck - lifting heavy just seems awesome to me and the ladies on this board rock big time!0 -
Hi and welcome!
1. First question then is how do I up the weights if all my gym has is 2.5 lbs and obviously I can't lift 45 5X5, which would be my next progression. Is it worth investing in fractional plates at this point in time?
If you don't want fractionals, you can fill a sock with coins, rice or something else
2. When does one decide if they should do 5X5 vs 3X5? When the weight gets too heavy? You have low energy?
I switched when 5x5 was taking over 75-80 minutes, and I was having to take 3 minutes rest between sets.
3. When does a cycle end? 12 weeks? Or again when you feel like you are low energy?
I'll let someone else answer this!
4. Accessory lifts: what are they? Necessary?
I don't; many do. Depends on your goals, time available etc!
5. How much ab work to incorporate?
See no. 4..
6. How much cardio? Is it ok to do HIIT on days off? What about yoga? Does that mean I'm not resting the muscles?
I do HIIT after my lifting session (ie 3 sets of 20 seconds on the bike) and that's it. Many do yoga, many do other cardio too, depends on your targets, energy, how bothered you are if it impacts on your lifting etc.
I'm sure someone more experienced and wiser than me will chip in! 0 -
Welcome to the group!
1. You can start with dumbbells for the OHP until you are able to lift the bar. One option is to increase reps by one each workout until you can move up to 5 reps at the next weight. For example, do 40 5x5 day one, then 40 5x6, then 40 5x7, then attempt 45 5x5. Another option is to purchase fractional weights (1.25 lbs each) or Fastenell washers that can come in various weights like .25 or .5 lbs. Many ladies here can give advice as to where you can find them online. For OHP, I set my progression by the 5x5 standard, but only move up when I have a full 5x5 in good form. I move up and then get reps of like 5,4,4,3,2. The next time I would stay at that weight and work to add reps onto the sets up to 5. It is what worked for me and how I like doing it.
2. You should start out with 5x5. People drop to 3x5 when the weight gets pretty heavy for them (so all relative), they feel that 5x5 is just too much, and the rest times become so long that it takes over an hour to do the 3 lifts.
3. The program is supposed to be 12 weeks, but many people do more than the 12 weeks. Most people use the end of the 12 weeks as a point where they deload by some percent and then start back into the next cycle.
4. Accessory lifts are other strength lifts that you do in support of the 5 primary lifts. These often are done at lower weight for 8-12 reps. Doing accessory work is not necessary if you are looking to increase your strength with SL. I do accessory work because I actually enjoy going to the gym 6 days a week and I do lighter weight accessory work to develop some of the smaller muscle groups or work on particular weak points that will help with my primary lifts.
5. Core work is really up to the individual. All the 5 primary lifts will work the core. There is not a need to do additional core work unless there is a specific weakness you are trying to solve in an effort to strengthen your form on a lift. Again, I'm a nut and actually enjoy core work so I do it on non-SL days as part of the accessory work.
6. How much cardio is also a personal decision. This is where you have to decide what you want to get out of the program. HIIT is good and can support the push for fat loss, but too much and you will probably have difficulty with recovery between lift days. Yoga is great and many ladies here do it and find it helps a lot with their lifting. How much rest you need depends on your body, current level of conditioning, nutrition, sleep, stress....and a few other factors. If you start feeling fatigue, then you need to look at your fitness routine and see where you can reduce. This will either be in intensity or duration. So back off on weight/intensity of cardio, or do the same for less time (drop the number of HIIT sessions or time of cardio sessions).
If your goal is to get stronger, focus on SL and see what you can do in addition to it. If it is general fitness and you don't mind slower progression on the lifts, you can do that also. It really depends on what you want to get out of it.0 -
Wow, how quick and awesome all of you are!!! Thank you!
I see it all depends on your goals. Mine are to lose fat, increase my metabolic rate, get tighter/firmer and stronger. There's so much information out there and it's starting to overwhelm me, so I really appreciate the clear advice.0 -
Welcome to the group!
1. You can start with dumbbells for the OHP until you are able to lift the bar. One option is to increase reps by one each workout until you can move up to 5 reps at the next weight. For example, do 40 5x5 day one, then 40 5x6, then 40 5x7, then attempt 45 5x5. Another option is to purchase fractional weights (1.25 lbs each) or Fastenell washers that can come in various weights like .25 or .5 lbs. Many ladies here can give advice as to where you can find them online. For OHP, I set my progression by the 5x5 standard, but only move up when I have a full 5x5 in good form. I move up and then get reps of like 5,4,4,3,2. The next time I would stay at that weight and work to add reps onto the sets up to 5. It is what worked for me and how I like doing it.
2. You should start out with 5x5. People drop to 3x5 when the weight gets pretty heavy for them (so all relative), they feel that 5x5 is just too much, and the rest times become so long that it takes over an hour to do the 3 lifts.
3. The program is supposed to be 12 weeks, but many people do more than the 12 weeks. Most people use the end of the 12 weeks as a point where they deload by some percent and then start back into the next cycle.
4. Accessory lifts are other strength lifts that you do in support of the 5 primary lifts. These often are done at lower weight for 8-12 reps. Doing accessory work is not necessary if you are looking to increase your strength with SL. I do accessory work because I actually enjoy going to the gym 6 days a week and I do lighter weight accessory work to develop some of the smaller muscle groups or work on particular weak points that will help with my primary lifts.
5. Core work is really up to the individual. All the 5 primary lifts will work the core. There is not a need to do additional core work unless there is a specific weakness you are trying to solve in an effort to strengthen your form on a lift. Again, I'm a nut and actually enjoy core work so I do it on non-SL days as part of the accessory work.
6. How much cardio is also a personal decision. This is where you have to decide what you want to get out of the program. HIIT is good and can support the push for fat loss, but too much and you will probably have difficulty with recovery between lift days. Yoga is great and many ladies here do it and find it helps a lot with their lifting. How much rest you need depends on your body, current level of conditioning, nutrition, sleep, stress....and a few other factors. If you start feeling fatigue, then you need to look at your fitness routine and see where you can reduce. This will either be in intensity or duration. So back off on weight/intensity of cardio, or do the same for less time (drop the number of HIIT sessions or time of cardio sessions).
If your goal is to get stronger, focus on SL and see what you can do in addition to it. If it is general fitness and you don't mind slower progression on the lifts, you can do that also. It really depends on what you want to get out of it.
Amazing! Thanks so much for such a detailed reply.
I have a follow up question: is it important to not do cardio on the same day you lift? I do cardio after lifting and take a full rest day to rest or do yoga.
Also, what do you think of the Beautiful Badass program? Is it something to consider later?
Again, thank you thank you! Such a wonderful forum for support and getting stronger!0 -
Another group you may want to check out is the Eat, Train, Progress group. You can post questions about calorie intake and programs and get advice from even smarter people.
Fat loss is mostly affected by diet so you will need to determine what calorie level you need to be at to balance losing fat and being able to progress in the strength. It can be a little tricky and take time through trial and error to get the amount to the right level. Many ladies find it difficult to lift with a large calorie deficit when the lifting gets heavy. That is an area the Eat, Train, Progress experts would be able to help you figure out with less of a headache.0 -
Thank you! I'll check it out.0
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Amazing! Thanks so much for such a detailed reply.
I have a follow up question: is it important to not do cardio on the same day you lift? I do cardio after lifting and take a full rest day to rest or do yoga.
Also, what do you think of the Beautiful Badass program? Is it something to consider later?
Again, thank you thank you! Such a wonderful forum for support and getting stronger!
Cardio is typically done after lifting or on non-lifting days. As long as you do cardio after lifting, you should be fine doing that and taking a rest day or doing yoga. If you are already doing that, stick with it since your body is getting conditioned for that.
Another member would probably hunt me down through the interwebs if I said anything negative about Beautiful Badass (Not that I have anything negative to say) :laugh: It is definitely something to consider later and many of the ladies here are actually advancing on to that program. They seem to enjoy it. I just personally have no experience with it as I am being stubborn and put my own program together for my next step past SL. But BB is one that I will seriously consider if I find that I'm an idiot and don't see the results I want from my own program.0 -
:laugh: From the posts that I've seen by you, it looks like you know EXACTLY what you're doing. I personally don't know how to put a proper program together (all the info on push/pull, work opposite muscles, blah blah blah) isn't solidifying itself into anything comprehensive in my head but a bunch of mush and I just don't think I can come up with anything so that's why I was asking about BB. :happy:
Thanks for the feedback and advice!
Oh, how I crave to see me on August 31!0 -
I know enough to be dangerous
Developing a program isn't something that most people even have a desire to do which is why there are a lot of pre-designed workouts out there. In most cases, going with an "off the shelf" program is the best way to achieve the goals you want because you can pick one that goes in line with what you like to do and it gives you the exercises without having to figure out all the blah blah blah pieces :happy: I'm just a bit of a fitness geek and like the blah blah blah bits :laugh:
Work hard and keep asking questions when you have them. August 31st will be here soon enough. Make sure you have your before pictures.0 -
Thanks for such amazing feedback and support! How come I haven't found this type of community before? Oh yeah, I was smart trying to do things on my own. Fail.
I like the geeky fitness stuff. I just have terrible memory and organizing information into usable format apparently isn't my forte.
I already have a question about the workout. After today's workout, my right knee started hurting after squats, my right wrist and elbow after bench press. I thought I'm following form cause I watched all the videos, all the tips, all the warnings, but it is possible I'm doing it wrong. I truly don't want to hurt myself. I want to make sure I'm getting stronger and 12 weeks, I'll see some slight definition. Any advice on how to make it stop hurting and prevent in the future this would be awesome. Should I start a new thread on this?0 -
Jstout already gave you lots of good answers -- You don't have much to lose, so I would pick a number closer to maintenance or if you have absolutely no idea at all, start otu with 1800 and see what happens. That's a good number for most women -- if you're VERY active, or VERY inactive it might need slight adjustment. Or if you find yourself tired/weak/hungry all the time, it probably needs to go up.
As far as stuff hurting - yes its probably a minor form issue, but DON'T panic yet. Go into your next set and look for some of the most common form issues. For squats, it tends to be letting your knees buckle inward on the way down or as you push up. II'd say watch for that before anything. There are some common cues for it -- "Knees out!" is one, "imagine you're pushing the floor apart with your heels" is another. You may find it easier if you turn your feet out more, or less, or move your feet wider apart or closer together. Check on that stuff -- one of the reasons yuo started out at low weights is to identify these issues and work on them before it becomes a problem
For hte bench I'd say wrist and elbow issues tend to be mostly how you are gripping it. Make sure its being gripped in the palm of your hand, not back towards the fingers (where it will be dragging down hard on your wrist joint. Make sure your elbows aren't straight out at a 90 degree angle from your side (or alternately, that they are at a 180 degre angle with each other) -- they should be tucked slightly closer to the body. Somewhere less than 90%s.0 -
Thanks tameko!
I figured my TDEE -20% to be 1600. But I'll see how it goes for the next couple of weeks and adjust as necessary.
Awesome suggestions on form. I'll definitely work on it tomorrow.
Another question popped in to my head as I'm still working on form. Should I increase my squats by 5lbs tomorrow or still work on form with the current weight, which is tiny, 55?0 -
Another question popped in to my head as I'm still working on form. Should I increase my squats by 5lbs tomorrow or still work on form with the current weight, which is tiny, 55?
Do you find 55 to be heavy? Or is it a weight you can do a set, wait a minute, do the next set....? You can continue to increase weight and work on form at the same time. It is when you are lifting a weight that you really have to work at getting it up that you want form set so you are not trying to do for corrections while working so hard. If that makes sense. If you feel like you are not working hard at 60 lbs, then you can still put primary focus on form. It takes a lot of reps for muscle memory to set in so the lower weight reps are important for form development.0 -
I found 55 lbs the last set to be slightly difficult. It's hard to tell if I'm going parallel or below without someone watching me (those darn burly men aren't a good judge based on the squats I saw them do so I'm not even asking for the fear of getting unnecessary advice). Based on what you'er saying below, I think I'll go for another 55lbs workout today while working on form.
You guys are so awesome on here! Such great support and so prompt. I feel like I'm cradled in big fuzzy arms. Wait, wrong. Strong, muscular, feminine, beautiful arms.0 -
If there is not a mirror near the squat rack, what you can do is find small things to sit on (when NOT lifting) to see what parallel or below feels like. I know it sounds goofy, but at least you can kind of get a feel for it while being able to look at it yourself. Either that or take a video of your squat and check it yourself.0
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Success! I figured out how I'm squatting and I'm going below parallel and I was spreading my knees like a bad girl. lol And my knee didn't hurt. Yay! Actually, one of those burly men complimented my form!
I still have a weird issue with holding the bar really low on my back. I'm pretty flexible but it feels like my arms don't want to go that way and it sorta of hurts but nothing permanent.
One thing that I'm still not doing well is the grip on overhead press and positioning. My wrist was hurting again. I reviewed Mehdi's tips and proper grip but could it be because I'm using gloves? I really don't want to get calluses. Any experiences with OHP causing wrist problems? And I'm only at 40lbs.0 -
Well done on the burly compliment! You may find playing around with your grip width on squats helps. Go a bit wider and see if that is more comfy, then as you get more flexible start to bring it in. are you squeezing your shoulders together?0
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Gloves probably aren't helping. They make the overall distance your hand has to curl greater. Since you don't have a lot of weight on the bar for ohp yet, try taking them off and see how that feels.0
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Hate to tell you this, but I still had callouses even when I wore gloves. It's no big deal, though. You can slough them off with a pumice stone and slather on some good hand cream. I've been lifting for over a year now and no one even notices mine.
Losing the gloves improved my grip on the OHP tremendously. But I know people who lift successfully with them. Try it and see how you feel. 0
