What Would You Think?

OMGeeeHorses

Saturday at my in laws yard sale..my husband and I were hanging out to just keep them company and help. We had this one woman come in the yard sale and told us about how the horse she has owned for years up and kicked her in the back of the head, she had staples and bandages. My thoughts in my head are " How the hell does this happen, don't you know its not a great idea to stand behind your horse or even more have your back to him."

I mean what would you think? I was trained at a young age. No matter how much you think you know your horse, never stand with your back or self behind the back legs of a horse.

Just wondering what everyone else would have thought and if i had the right attitude towards it?

I ask because after she left my husband was all worried this was going to happen to me and I used the words I was thinking out loud to him and he was all like trying to defend the woman's "stupidity" that I saw in this wound that happened to her. That it was the horses way of just being mean and stupid, I just stared at him and was like, you do realize its an animal and doesn't think "Hey I am going to drop kick my owner in the back of the head today just to show her I am pissed about the bath yesterday." I guess I just don't see how if she was being a responsible horse rider she would have been kicked in the back of her head, not her sides or front but SQUARE in the middle she was kicked. I still can't figure it out.

thanks for my jabber

MelsAuntie

This will take me a while to explain .I've been a breeder of Arabian horses since 1974, have bred and raised three to six foals a year, usually had around 25 head. I showed halter and performance, did competitive trail riding and endurance. We had stallions all those years.
In all those years we have NEVER been deliberately kicked by an adult horse. I have been kicked a few times by playing foals, once suffered a broken hand when longeing my mare Mujhara and her three-month-old filly, running beside her in the round pen, threw a buck and a kick as she passed me--just playing, not aiming. Foals are taught from birth not to kick or bite humans. What the horses do among themselves is up to them. ONCE I was bitten by a stallion, our herd sire. His top door was open, I was leaning over his stall door talking to him, when the younger stallion, loose in the arena, walked up behind me and the older stallion took a bite at him. I saw the movement of the four year old walking up behind me, started to turn, and caught the older stallion's bite by stepping into it, as he aimed at the younger horse. Neither of them ever tried to bite a human.
My horses are not kept in stalls. They live in a herd and come in and out of the arena at will. I have been walking among them , standing behind them, patting them on the butt as I walk by, and leaning against their backsides for four equine generations, from 1974 up to today. I've pushed them from behind when loading, crossing water, entering a strange area, etc. and I know they won't kick, as they never have.They all know I'm the highest ranking "herd member" and the fact that we keep horses in as natural a herd environment as possible prevents a great deal of the misbehavior you find in horses kept prisoner in stalls. No horse is frightened or forced. I trust them; they trust me. Horses that do not feel frightened, threatened, or restrained in such a way that they are not free to move their feet ( remember they are a PREY animal) are much, much less likely to feel a need to defend themselves. Outright aggression of horses to humans is not common unless the horse has been badly trained or mishandled. I have no fear whatever of being behind my horses. I've been behind them all their lives and their mothers' and grandmothers' lives.. It is NOT true that you must never stand behind a horse for fear of being kicked; indeed, I expect never to be kicked, and they have not proven me wrong. I have acted the same way around my friends' Arabians, including loose in the pasture with stallions, and have never been bitten or kicked by one of them. That said, if I do not know the horse, I take care, as any prudent person would. There is a warmblood I know of who is a chronic dangerous kicker. I have been told that this particular horse kicks when being groomed or washed, when being saddled, you cannot go near his hind legs when loading him or if he is turned out, he will almost always kick. A horse like this--and I personally have never been around one--is a serious danger and if I had the misfortune to own one, would unquestionably receive a bullet in the head. There are far too many good horses to have to tolerate one that will put you in the hospital or the morgue.. The woman who was kicked in the head; what was the cause? There is certainly a reason other than " she was behind a horse or she turned her back on one".
My farm (Mashallah Arabians) is in Midland, Michigan. Anyone who wishes is welcome to come visit, meet my stock, walk among the herd in perfect safety, as visitors have been doing for 39 years. .--Barbara Ward

nolongerXXL

I guess it depends on HOW the horse happened to kick her. Was he in the field and goofing off, threw a playful kick out? Does the horse have temperament or training issues and it was just a blatant attack?

I have heard of many different stories, even people dying. One that has always stuck in my head happened just a few miles from my home. The stud manager of a large farm went to get a young maiden mare out of her stall. He slid the door open and started to enter. She spun around and kicked him with "both barrels". This was a non typical behavior for this mare and wasn't expected. He dropped to the ground and unfortunately died from the impact.

YEARS ago, I was cleaning the stall of a young, 2 year old gelding. He was very used to me picking his stall with him in it, no issues or fear. A maintenance worker decided to fire up a chain saw right outside of his stall (I didn't know the worker was there, either.) This young gelding spooked, plowed me down and stepped on my back and nicked my head. This accident was no fault of my own, nor the geldings, but it did happen.

These are just two examples of freakish accidents that happened.

I guess without further details, I can't venture much of an option on the stupidity of the owner or her actions as freak accidents do happen.

Now, being I said that, I have also have had my ill horses in my care. One mare, while I was dumping and scrubbing her water buckets in her stall attacked me. I dumped her water bucket (we dumped them out the window) and turned to hang it back up to see her charging at me with an open mouth. I dodged a little bit and she got my shoulder. I had dumped her bucket with her in her stall at least 500+ times, seriously! She just had a bad *kitten* attitude.

OMGeeeHorses

I understand you expect a horse not to kick, but any horse has the ability to kick and you always need to have in your mind that it might do just that. I may have been trained with some very special trainings, but all horses kick. You can't break that habit from a horse no matter how hard you try. I mean yes you can technically train the horse to understand not to buck when your around or in the saddle. But even then when instinct kicks in, no matter how stupid people may think it is....the horse is going to kick.

I wouldn't go that far to put a bullet to his brain because he is listed as "dangerous" he needs extra attention and care to train him that its not right to buck around humans. I mean that's what you do with dogs, children and other animals closely related. You train them not slaughter or kill them because they are being the way they grew up as or were poorly trained to be.

I give all animals the benefit of the doubt, I always say its not the horses fault but the humans fault for not leading the horse to success. I am big on Natural Horsemanship. To some that's not there cup of tea. But from what she was saying is she was standing in the paddock/pasture with the horse as it was eating its grain, she turned around to speak to someone and CRACK the horse got her just enough to cause the damage it did.
She had said she had, had the horse since it was a foal and trained it herself.

I myself have been kicked by an Arabian Stallion, I had picked his stall with him in it for years and one day I was picking his stall while he was looking out the window at the other geldings in the pasture, and he let out a whine and threw out his right leg at me, luckily I was able to block it and take the hit to my elbow or it would have been my face. No damage done, but he had never kicked out at anyone for years (23). I would take that in my part as my fault. I let my guard down thinking nothing of it and it happened. He is a horse and had a natural reaction to trying to show off his rank in the pecking order to the geldings while in his stall, I wouldn't blame him for his action as I can't train that or beat that out of him in anyway.
SO if I had been seriously hurt people would have blamed the horse, when in reality it would have been my fault for 1. he was showing signs he was going to kick and I ignored them and 2. I should have moved back after he did his whine, knowing what it meant with him out in the pasture and how he acts. I understand some trainers blame it all on the horse, but really we took a wild animal and forced it into a man oriented world. Now we do a better job of gentling animals, but to go from being wild and crazy to tamed and docile...there will always be that wild left in an animal. Just like with dogs they are bred from wolves, there are more domesticated dog attacks than there are wolf attacks in the world.

A horse is a horse and that is all they know how to be. A horse isn't as smart as people would like to think they are. There brains weight 1lb compared to a humans which weights 3lbs. So when a horse does something, everyone is quick to think the horse is being devious and dangerous and planing out how to rule the world LOL. No a horse is being just that a horse.

shadowkat57

I think she's a knob! You always remember that horses are unpredictable, and minimise the risk.
My mum was kicked in the face by my old mare - complete random accident, Mum lost 3 teeth, almost lost her bottom lip and had extensive facial fractures. She never once blamed the horse.

MelsAuntie

Notice how many times it was with the horse in a stall? You take a free ranging herd animal, separate it from its natural environment, keep it in isolation from other horses in a box, well, solitary confinement in humans is a severe punishment, same thing with a horse. The best you can hope for, unless your horses are at pasture in a group ( as mine are), is to give it maximum turn out time. Confinement IS cruelty in my opinion.. Yes, any horse CAN kick. And any dog CAN bite, but how many dogs live their entire lives without attacking and biting their owners? Bottom line is, I've been daily hands-on with my own horses, most of which were bred and born here ( sitting on the floor with the mare in labor), and I have been going behind them and turning my back on them for 39 years, no problem .I cannot imagine having any fear of them, or any need to. If you work around horses all the time, you observe their body language, you know what they are thinking. A horse is unable to lie, for instance that stallion was sending signs he needed a little more personal space.

nolongerXXL

Notice how many times it was with the horse in a stall? You take a free ranging herd animal, separate it from its natural environment, keep it in isolation from other horses in a box, well, solitary confinement in humans is a severe punishment, same thing with a horse. The best you can hope for, unless your horses are at pasture in a group ( as mine are), is to give it maximum turn out time. Confinement IS cruelty in my opinion.. Yes, any horse CAN kick. And any dog CAN bite, but how many dogs live their entire lives without attacking and biting their owners? Bottom line is, I've been daily hands-on with my own horses, most of which were bred and born here ( sitting on the floor with the mare in labor), and I have been going behind them and turning my back on them for 39 years, no problem .I cannot imagine having any fear of them, or any need to. If you work around horses all the time, you observe their body language, you know what they are thinking. A horse is unable to lie, for instance that stallion was sending signs he needed a little more personal space.

I'm not sure if I agree about the stall comment,nor am I sure I disagree.
I do keep my horses at pasture 24/7 with each other, mixing mares/gelding, etc (no stallions at this moment, and I wouldn't mix obviously mare and studs, if I didn't intend on breeding them.) When I do bring up horses, at our house, it is only to prep for a show or keep those with light pigmented skin out of the brutal Fl. sun. I think they do better for the most part out, being horses. Less ulcers, boredom related issues; cribbing, weaving, wind sucking, etc. I have had a few that prefer to be stalled over at pasture, they would pace and walk the fence endlessly, until brought in. Go figure!

SheilaG1963

I stand behind, and I mean RIGHT behind my horses all the time. I lean on their butts. I have never been kicked, but I know that's a possibility.

OMGeeeHorses

Notice how many times it was with the horse in a stall? You take a free ranging herd animal, separate it from its natural environment, keep it in isolation from other horses in a box, well, solitary confinement in humans is a severe punishment, same thing with a horse. The best you can hope for, unless your horses are at pasture in a group ( as mine are), is to give it maximum turn out time. Confinement IS cruelty in my opinion.. Yes, any horse CAN kick. And any dog CAN bite, but how many dogs live their entire lives without attacking and biting their owners? Bottom line is, I've been daily hands-on with my own horses, most of which were bred and born here ( sitting on the floor with the mare in labor), and I have been going behind them and turning my back on them for 39 years, no problem .I cannot imagine having any fear of them, or any need to. If you work around horses all the time, you observe their body language, you know what they are thinking. A horse is unable to lie, for instance that stallion was sending signs he needed a little more personal space.

The horse didn't kick me for personal space, it kicked me because he was showing dominance over the geldings that were able to walk up and sniff him if they wanted to. The geldings decided to ignore him and he was pissy that they were not following his rules as he was the head of the herd. The Geldings and Stallion all were released together. He was in the stall due to having an injury that was getting x-rays that day for his front leg that wouldn't move quit right.
I have no fear of horses and could care less if I got kicked, I just know it would be my own fault if I ever did/do get kicked by a horse..I am putting my weight of little to nothing up against a 1200lb animal, no matter what I am going to be at fault for everything that happens as I am putting pressure on the animal with my different body language than what that horse is use to. All horses are a horse and that just that, they will kick, bite, rear and be a horse! No matter how much training or respect you think they have for you. I mean my friend raises gypsy cobs and she one day went out to her horses paddock who is such a sweet loving mare and never would kick at a fly at all, that mare up and kicked out at the fence and pinned her ears back at her owner. She was in heat and wanted nothing to do with riding that day and was being a horse and making her body language clear. I understand we as a human have domesticated a horse to an extent to have it do things we want, but by golly when a horse wants to be a horse it will be one no matter its training or raised heritage. Just like with a stallion, people walk around with a chain over its nose to take control off it, you remove that chain with most stallions and you can forget about control if their is a mare in heat. That stallion has one thing on its mind and it could care less what you or any other person wants it to do, its going to breed that mare and will act like a horse to get what it wants. I may not have as much horse experience as most young adults would, but I know a horse well enough to know any injury dealt to myself by one is my own fault.

OMGeeeHorses

I stand behind, and I mean RIGHT behind my horses all the time. I lean on their butts. I have never been kicked, but I know that's a possibility.

I do too as well, I lean on their butts and brush their tail right in between there legs.. If they decide to kick out, I am close enough were all they can do is squeal and sort of bunny hop kick. I am not saying don't EVER stand behind your horse, we all do. I am just saying its not the horses fault if you get kicked in the head when you turn your back on a 1200lb animal and then try to blame it on the horse or want to shoot it because it does that. The horse isn't acting in aggression it is just acting like a horse.
I was trained by my first trainer never to stand behind a horse at all (5yrs old), because they can't see you as well and can become spooked and kick out hard if obviously your not close enough to the back legs to stay out of the kicking area. So I carry that with me a lot when telling young ones how to handle a horse. As they get older they can choose as an adult what to do. I just know this adult was far enough away to get her horses hoof square in the back of the head, because if she had been standing close to it, it would have been her leg or arm at most that would have been kicked.

MelsAuntie

And by the way, when I said I would have shot a dangerous kicker, I was talking about ONE PARTICULAR HORSE, who kicked all the time, it was nearly impossible to handle that animal at all without it kicking. Sooner or later it would put somebody in the hospital, if not the morgue. That horse is not worth the time and effort to try rehabilitating! Bullet in head, absolutely.

SheilaG1963

And by the way, when I said I would have shot a dangerous kicker, I was talking about ONE PARTICULAR HORSE, who kicked all the time, it was nearly impossible to handle that animal at all without it kicking. Sooner or later it would put somebody in the hospital, if not the morgue. That horse is not worth the time and effort to try rehabilitating! Bullet in head, absolutely.

I watched Clinton Anderson break a horse from kicking the other day. This horse not only kicked constantly, she aimed. She knew right where she was going to kick and hit the spot everytime. I've seen my mustang do the same thing to the cats if they are in the field. Gypsy looks over her shoulder, *kitten* that hind leg and lets fly. The cats learned very quickly to get out of the way!

I think every horse can be saved. I've heard of putting a tire in their stall with the bottom cut out. They kick all day, but don't get hung up.My mare and gelding push their limits at times, but respect is the key. I've never beat them or mistreated them, but they do respect me.