Evolution of a relationship
flimflamfloz
Posts: 1,980 Member
From another topic:
I was discussing about that the other day, about the fact that there is a (probably) reasonable expectation from most people for a relationship to "evolve", otherwise the relationship is considered a failure, because it stalled (I'm not sure this should be the case, but it is as it is in our day and age).
However, in the mind of pretty much everyone, "evolution" in a relationship means "vertical" evolution, as in: moving together -> engaged -> marriage -> children. A bit like being "promoted" in a job to a "superior" status/responsibility (vertical evolution, you're going up the food chain, horizontal evolution, you're going sideways to a different department for example).
Just looking for people general take, opinion or experience on this, but here are a few pointers below:
- If being engaged, marriage and children aren't an option for you in a relationship, how do you propose to offer this needed-by-most "evolution" in your relationship?
- How about "horizontal evolution" (to continue the parallel with work) and more importantly, what would this mean in the context of a relationship?
- Also, is the expectation that a relationship should absolutely evolve actually "reasonable"? How about the older crowd, what do they expect from their relationships then?
Subconsciously or without giving it too much thought, this is indeed how most people imagine the evolution of their relationship.All of a sudden it hits him. And that's when he has to make some kind of decision. His decision is - does he keep going, and take up more and more of your time and put you off more and more, or perhaps even get more deeply involved himself where he'd have to DO something? Like MARRY you, or get a home with you, or something pretty official.
I was discussing about that the other day, about the fact that there is a (probably) reasonable expectation from most people for a relationship to "evolve", otherwise the relationship is considered a failure, because it stalled (I'm not sure this should be the case, but it is as it is in our day and age).
However, in the mind of pretty much everyone, "evolution" in a relationship means "vertical" evolution, as in: moving together -> engaged -> marriage -> children. A bit like being "promoted" in a job to a "superior" status/responsibility (vertical evolution, you're going up the food chain, horizontal evolution, you're going sideways to a different department for example).
Just looking for people general take, opinion or experience on this, but here are a few pointers below:
- If being engaged, marriage and children aren't an option for you in a relationship, how do you propose to offer this needed-by-most "evolution" in your relationship?
- How about "horizontal evolution" (to continue the parallel with work) and more importantly, what would this mean in the context of a relationship?
- Also, is the expectation that a relationship should absolutely evolve actually "reasonable"? How about the older crowd, what do they expect from their relationships then?
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Well, I've never wanted marriage or children, so from my perspective the evolution need never go any further than living together.
It's all about two people wanting the same things. If you dont want to cohabit then live apart. I know a few long term relationships that have thrived with each in separate dwellings. Lets face it, living together can be domestic hell!! :laugh:
The older I get, the more I think that separate dwellings with sleep overs is the way to go........it could keep the romance alive!! :bigsmile:0 -
I'm not sure about the horizontal vs vertical evolution. I guess it you want to take the job analogy further two ways to advance are to stay with the same company, gain experience and responsibility and then move to higher ranking positions. The alternative is to gain experience, acquire marketable skills and move to a similar postion with another company for a larger salary. Does that translate to one track as getting married, etc and the other track being to learn what you can from a partner, get skills that make you more attractive to other potential partners and then jump ship when you can sufficiently upgrade?
What about the person who uses work to make money but doesn't want to climb the corporate ladder and advance to a higher status. He/she only wants the money as a means to pursue other interests? Is the relationship equivalent only a man who wants a woman around for sex but otherwise wants to pursue his hobbies and interests independently? Is it the woman who only wants financial stability and a man to be a bread winner but otherwise doesn't have much interest in her partner?
Also, by your definition of evolution what do you consider the elderly couple who have been married for 30-60 years? Their children are grown. In many cases, their grandchildren are grown. At what point did their relationship reach its peak and begin devolving?0 -
I once dated someone that I had a great connection with.......after about 6 dates....a liitle over a month, in general conversation he told me that he would probably never get married again--and he would have to think long and hard about ever even living with someone. My question then, was....."well, then what are we doing? We are just going to "date" forever?" and he said he was not sure.......we ended up breaking whatever we had at that point.
He met a woman shortly after--few months, and she moved in with about 6 mos, they are getting married next weekend! I am sure most of you will state, he wanted to get married.......just not to me, which is partially true--but the fact is that we were not talking about him and I specifically when he stated that no marriage or cohabitating.
My point is that I have to see the relationship going further.......at some point..............to pursue it.0 -
This is a big thing for me. I have dated a guy for three years on and off, currently off. He very much wants the relationship to be horizontial. We date- that's it. The kids know each other and get a long. We do stuff together but not as one potential family but as two seperate familes doing something together. He never wants that to change. It's comfortable for him and the kids and he likes it.
I on the other hand, would like a vertical relationship. I want more. I would like to live together, at least. Ideally, I would like to marry him. He is my best friend and even when we are apart we can't quite stay away from each other. Whenever he feels like I want too much we break up. Each time we say it is for good... Yet he is the one going with me to the onogolist next week.0 -
Horizontal evolution is trying new sex position.0
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I have no interest in getting married or having more children and I uaually make this known from the begining...Living together is as far as I want to go.... Personally I think that as long as your not dating someone who want something completely oppisite(in my case the marrige,white picket fences and 3.5 kids) you can have a happy healthy relationship0
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Sometimes I'm torn on this because I have felt that I didn't want to get married again but now I'm game.
Like Moes story, you might think you don't want to but then you meet someone that changes it all. (not talking about the ones that already have had their kiddos) So I try not to have an agenda so to speak. My bf now told me in the beginning, that he'd never marry a gal unless he lived with her first. Before him, I was totally against it but I heard his point and I decided to accept that (if we should go that far).
I have to be evolving though in relationships. It doesn't have to be fast, or on a certain agenda. As long as we are moving, I'm ok. In my relationship now, we haven't done any big changes and haven't even moved to saying "I love you" yet, but I feel we have moved to a new level of intimacy around month 4. Around that time, we had a talk. We talked about going further or not. Funny thing is we both were feeling the same exact way (confused). We talked about our feelings, what we expected right now and in the near future. Needless to say, we decided to keep going.0 -
The older I get, the more I realize that I can actually define what I want a relationship to be, on my or our terms, and it is okay to be different!
I don't think I want kids, and am not sure about marriage.
I love not sharing a bedroom or bathroom. It gives me a feeling of space and independence I have come to crave.
My philosophy is really more focused on "good for now" as opposed to "forever". Too many great couples I know have broken up lately..and it doesn't seem to make a difference if they were married or living commonlaw.0 -
I once heard somewhere that most romantic relationships start with you being "in love" with the person, and then "loving" the person. Your interest and passion becomes more tamed down as time moves on. You typically don't hear someone in a relationship for many years say, "I'm in love with my husband/wife", you hear "I love my husband/wife." I think it's natural and not anything to be worried about.
I do eventually want to get married and have kids, and if I met a guy who wasn't on board with that, well...we wouldn't be compatible. I like being alone right now, and like Danielle said, it's fun having your own place and being independent but for myself I know in the future that I want to eventually end that. When I look into my future, I see myself being older and alone and honestly that is heart breaking for me. But I would rather be alone than compromise myself and my goals. If a man said, "I just want to date the rest of my life" that wouldn't be okay with me. Our relationship has to move somewhere...marriage, most likely children.0 -
VERY interesting topic! bumping for later!0
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Lots of good comments here.
Reading them brought the following thought: the elephant trying to hide in the corner might well be fertility.
Many early 20s/late 20s women aspire to have children and they will ask/incentivise their (male) partner to make the relationship evolve towards this goal: moving together, engaged, married, and ultimately children.
While it is a sensitive topic, simply put, from what I can observe here and outside, women seem to fall in two categories:
- The ones that still want children because they still think they can. They will be trying to make the relationship move "vertically".
- The ones that don't want them because they can't (or can't for much longer and don't think they will find someone decent in the time they have left) or have them already. Most are OK with an "horizontal" relationship (most, not all, clearly)
I don't (obviously) have a biological clock ticking as a male, so it's easier for me to say this but...
I would be content to have a casual-committed relationship, i.e. a monogamous relationship in which what we do is mostly going to gigs, restaurants, trips here and there, maybe moving to another country together, ... enjoying life and being together in general...
Without any short term prospect of: children, being engaged, marriage (and optional: living together).
It's not even that I don't want these things ultimately, but more... when I feel I'm ready. When I feel like it's time to do it (within reason, of course).
So why then do I feel there is so much pressure to have to move the relationship "vertically"? Is it the "main way" people view relationships in the end?
Why can't people (women) just decide that they are going to stay together for 4-5 years together without vertical progression at all - just enjoying the relationship for what it is, without all the heavy stuff?
You can even (once you've passed those 4-5 years) do all the vertical progression at once if it pleases you.
Why do people feel that a relationship without the constant/early/ongoing vertical progression is a failure? (is it fertility?)
It doesn't make much sense to me, as people should enjoy their (relative) "youth" and freedom with as few constraints as possible to make the best of each other, and only then can they start committing to the heavier stuff, get busy wiping babies' @sses, pay the house bills with a 9-5 job, etc.
Does it make sense? Or am I missing something?
PS: dbrightwell - I agree, I don't think the analogy is perfect, far from it. It's more a case of trying to express an idea without having to write two lines of text each time I want to bring a particular notion (because I will have to define it then).
PPS: For a man my age, this is quite a hot topic, as all the women are turning 30 around me...
PPPS: On a side note, I imagine men also push for relationships to "move vertically" sometimes... or do they? Less than women? As often?0 -
I'm with you Flim, which may or may not be normal for a woman my age. I have no rush to settle down and start popping out human larvae of my own. The only purpose I see of having a government recognized commitment (marriage) is if wrigglers came into the picture.
I think the only "vertical evolution" I would want is living together- but that would be for a more practical stand point. Shared bills means more free money to go do things and have adventure. Of course this would also be after being exclusive for some time.0 -
Why can't people (women) just decide that they are going to stay together for 4-5 years together without vertical progression at all - just enjoying the relationship for what it is, without all the heavy stuff?
I spent forever crafting an answer to this and all I got out of it is "I don't know." I think a lot of people are happy where they are. And I think other people have to keep moving and growing. A lot of couples date for a while before settling down and others want all that stuff right away and get married within six months of meeting each other.0 -
Why can't people (women) just decide that they are going to stay together for 4-5 years together without vertical progression at all - just enjoying the relationship for what it is, without all the heavy stuff?
I spent forever crafting an answer to this and all I got out of it is "I don't know." I think a lot of people are happy where they are. And I think other people have to keep moving and growing. A lot of couples date for a while before settling down and others want all that stuff right away and get married within six months of meeting each other.
Think of your job. Some people are fine to stay in the same job all their life while others want to be promoted and go up the ladder. So some people are happy moving more linear in their life and don't have the ambitions or wants to escalate out of their current positions. While other people need to see that there is more out there and that they are not at the end of their growth cycle. This probably just came to mind for me because right now I feel stagnant in my job and need something to change soon even if it is me looking for a new job.0 -
Why can't people (women) just decide that they are going to stay together for 4-5 years together without vertical progression at all - just enjoying the relationship for what it is, without all the heavy stuff?
I spent forever crafting an answer to this and all I got out of it is "I don't know." I think a lot of people are happy where they are. And I think other people have to keep moving and growing. A lot of couples date for a while before settling down and others want all that stuff right away and get married within six months of meeting each other.
Think of your job. Some people are fine to stay in the same job all their life while others want to be promoted and go up the ladder. So some people are happy moving more linear in their life and don't have the ambitions or wants to escalate out of their current positions. While other people need to see that there is more out there and that they are not at the end of their growth cycle. This probably just came to mind for me because right now I feel stagnant in my job and need something to change soon even if it is me looking for a new job.
Good comparison!0 -
I'm with you Flim, which may or may not be normal for a woman my age. I have no rush to settle down and start popping out human larvae of my own. The only purpose I see of having a government recognized commitment (marriage) is if wrigglers came into the picture.
I think the only "vertical evolution" I would want is living together- but that would be for a more practical stand point. Shared bills means more free money to go do things and have adventure. Of course this would also be after being exclusive for some time.
I'm with both of you..I got married because it was expected of us.... We were young and pretty stupid... As Kit put it I have 2 wigglers lol....I have no desire to have more so I see no reason to get married again....... Living together is a potential but being that I've lived with my own room (space) for a few years now it would have to be a LTR before anyone would be moving in with me lol...... I really just want to enjoy the guy, having fun and just see ........ The only commiment that I truely would say is concrete is if we are BF/GF we are monogamous0 -
Flim, I think there are men who want to move the relationship vertical quickly! I know guys who have proposed to women in 2 months, even 6 months. Generally you don't see this as much I don't think. Maybe they are worried they are running out of time?
Does desperation come into it at all?
I think in my past, maybe desperation did? I got attached early (not married) at 23 and ended up having 2 kids. I wanted soooo badly to get married but my ex still wasn't divorced from his ex. It never happened for me and in hindsite THANK GOD!
I then went on to date someone else for 9 months and again wished it would happen, after getting burned there (moved from alcoholic to gambler) I realized that yes, I want to be married but the RIGHT PERSON! I don't care anymore if it takes time, because I want to do it the right way. I want it to be someone worthy of me, and that it is healthy. That being said, I am not sure I could wait 4-5 years because marriage is important to me- at that point I may question if he wants marriage, you know?
I have no problem now living in the present.... I am ok to be alone now, I have kids to worry about, and I have secured myself here alone, and I need to make pretty damn sure the guy is right for me and my kids before I uproot us and potentially screw us all over .... so to speak...0 -
This sounds like a fascinating psychology study that needs to be fleshed out. I'm not sure why we think that "progress" in a relationship is needed to feel happy and content. I think a large part of it is made very complex by our social surroundings. I for example am very much single at this stage, I'm at the entry level position on the relationship ladder. However I know a lot of people around me (mid-late 20's) are getting married or having kids at this stage in their life, they are much higher up the relationship ladder and I feel naturally compelled to want similar "success" for myself. It's not that I'm unhappy where I'm at, I get the attention/dates and such that I need to feel loved/wanted blah blah but there's a very big desire for more and I think it has everything to do with what's around me more than what I actually need in life. I know on a very basic level that I don't need marriage or kids to be happy with my life, but maybe it's just human nature to want what you don't have or there is added interest in what other people have/are doing.0
