half marathon training question....help please! long....
mkakids
Posts: 1,913 Member
Backstory....I ran my first half at the end of Nov 2015. I finished in 2:38:00. I ended up with an injury....preoneal tendonitis. Its fine now...and i started running again Jan 6.
Around that time a friend of mine asked me to run a half with her on April 26. We signed up. She started running at that point (had been a consistent rumner in the past, but had a baby in september). Then a series of illness/injury (the flu, kidney stones with 2 surgeries, her infant was hospitalized with rsv, etc...) suffice it to say she hasnt been training effectively. She recently just bowed out completely...preferring to transfer her bib rather than walk the whole thing.
Another friend of mine is also signed up for the race but i hadnt planned on running with her. Her goal time is 2:25-2:30.
I have no interest in running it alone, so i would like to run it with friend 2, but that leaves me woefully undertrained. I was planning on a run/walk with her and now i need a PR by 8- 13minutes.
Is that possible? I have been running 5k ~ 3xs a week....just working on speed since i was planning on a run walk. My 5k pr is 28:06, but i consistently run it in 30. I havent run more than a 5k since the other half in nov.
I REALLY like a well outlined plan and schedule. Followed one to a T last time. But i cant find anything usefull for this situation and im not experienced enough to confidently make my own.
Is it even possible for me to finish in under 2:30 at this point? What kind of training would you reccomend?
HALP!
I appreciate any input!
Around that time a friend of mine asked me to run a half with her on April 26. We signed up. She started running at that point (had been a consistent rumner in the past, but had a baby in september). Then a series of illness/injury (the flu, kidney stones with 2 surgeries, her infant was hospitalized with rsv, etc...) suffice it to say she hasnt been training effectively. She recently just bowed out completely...preferring to transfer her bib rather than walk the whole thing.
Another friend of mine is also signed up for the race but i hadnt planned on running with her. Her goal time is 2:25-2:30.
I have no interest in running it alone, so i would like to run it with friend 2, but that leaves me woefully undertrained. I was planning on a run/walk with her and now i need a PR by 8- 13minutes.
Is that possible? I have been running 5k ~ 3xs a week....just working on speed since i was planning on a run walk. My 5k pr is 28:06, but i consistently run it in 30. I havent run more than a 5k since the other half in nov.
I REALLY like a well outlined plan and schedule. Followed one to a T last time. But i cant find anything usefull for this situation and im not experienced enough to confidently make my own.
Is it even possible for me to finish in under 2:30 at this point? What kind of training would you reccomend?
HALP!
I appreciate any input!
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Replies
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If you are running just 5k 3 times a week, your greatest gains are going to be from doing more miles and building your aerobic base. Slowly up your mileage. At your current mileage, something like this would be a good start: http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51131/Half-Marathon-Novice-1-Training-Program
edit: And, for the most part, most of your gains even in short races are going to come from doing more miles at this point. I made great gains in my 5k time by training for a half marathon. And took another big chunk off by training for a full marathon.
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The_Enginerd wrote: »If you are running just 5k 3 times a week, your greatest gains are going to be from doing more miles and building your aerobic base. Slowly up your mileage. At your current mileage, something like this would be a good start: http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51131/Half-Marathon-Novice-1-Training-Program
edit: And, for the most part, most of your gains even in short races are going to come from doing more miles at this point. I made great gains in my 5k time by training for a half marathon. And took another big chunk off by training for a full marathon.
Thank you, but how do i modify something like that for my timeframe? I only have 6 weeks.0 -
I think you can do this, specifically because you have done it before, and fairly recently. You will not have lost all of your endurance in that amount of time, especially since you are still running regularly. Here's what I would do (disclaimer-not a running coach): Go out this weekend and run 5-6 miles slowly (taking walk breaks if needed). Continue on your current schedule of running 3 days per week, with two of those runs at 3-4 miles and one long run, increasing by 1 mile each week, up to 10 miles, then subtract a mile each week for your taper (Is your race really on a Tuesday? If so, skip the long run the weekend immediately before the race). Any aerobic cross training (cycling, eliptical, etc) you can fit in there will help too.
Try not to worry too much about the pace. Since her pace is slower than what you are currently used to running, you can always start off with your friend and then slow up when you need to. At this point, I would not try to get her to change her pace, but see how long you can hang with her. You may surprise yourself. And if you do need to slow up, usually by that point there are others around running at your pace that you can fall into rhythm with. Most people running at a comfortable pace are more than willing to chat it up with a stranger in a race. It helps the miles go by. And remember, running a race alone is really not such a bad thing. It allows you complete freedom to run at your own pace because you do not have to worry about anyone but you. Good Luck!
ETA: I also would resist the urge to run your shorter runs at a fast pace. Keep them comfortable as well. This will keep you nice and fresh for your weekend long run, which has to be your main focus now since time is a factor.0 -
Ah, I've misread your original post. I thought the half was in November. With only 6 weeks to go, I'd start adding a bit of length to your long runs, 1/2 mile per week, and build up to 5-6 miles. Add 1/2 mile every two weeks to one of your midweek runs. You don't have enough time to go beyond that without building up mileage too quickly.The_Enginerd wrote: »If you are running just 5k 3 times a week, your greatest gains are going to be from doing more miles and building your aerobic base. Slowly up your mileage. At your current mileage, something like this would be a good start: http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51131/Half-Marathon-Novice-1-Training-Program
edit: And, for the most part, most of your gains even in short races are going to come from doing more miles at this point. I made great gains in my 5k time by training for a half marathon. And took another big chunk off by training for a full marathon.
Thank you, but how do i modify something like that for my timeframe? I only have 6 weeks.
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lporter229 wrote: »I think you can do this, specifically because you have done it before, and fairly recently. You will not have lost all of your endurance in that amount of time, especially since you are still running regularly. Here's what I would do (disclaimer-not a running coach): Go out this weekend and run 5-6 miles slowly (taking walk breaks if needed). Continue on your current schedule of running 3 days per week, with two of those runs at 3-4 miles and one long run, increasing by 1 mile each week, up to 10 miles, then subtract a mile each week for your taper (Is your race really on a Tuesday? If so, skip the long run the weekend immediately before the race). Any aerobic cross training (cycling, eliptical, etc) you can fit in there will help too.
Try not to worry too much about the pace. Since her pace is slower than what you are currently used to running, you can always start off with your friend and then slow up when you need to. At this point, I would not try to get her to change her pace, but see how long you can hang with her. You may surprise yourself. And if you do need to slow up, usually by that point there are others around running at your pace that you can fall into rhythm with. Most people running at a comfortable pace are more than willing to chat it up with a stranger in a race. It helps the miles go by. And remember, running a race alone is really not such a bad thing. It allows you complete freedom to run at your own pace because you do not have to worry about anyone but you. Good Luck!
ETA: I also would resist the urge to run your shorter runs at a fast pace. Keep them comfortable as well. This will keep you nice and fresh for your weekend long run, which has to be your main focus now since time is a factor.
Thank you. My race is a Sunday.... April 24...i had the date wrong.
Im thinking that if i run 4 miles Tues, Wed, Fri, and a long run on Sunday (5miles this week, then add a mile each week, it will get me to 9 miles the week before the race)...i know thats not ideal (id rather go to 12 miles before the race) but i think 9 is doable.
ETA....I ran the last one alone (didn't know a single person there, running or watching, lol)....and Id really rather not run it alone again. Honestly, if i dont think i can do it that day....Id rather just not run it than end up running alone again.
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The_Enginerd wrote: »
Ah, I've misread your original post. I thought the half was in November. With only 6 weeks to go, I'd start adding a bit of length to your long runs, 1/2 mile per week, and build up to 5-6 miles. Add 1/2 mile every two weeks to one of your midweek runs. You don't have enough time to go beyond that without building up mileage too quickly.The_Enginerd wrote: »If you are running just 5k 3 times a week, your greatest gains are going to be from doing more miles and building your aerobic base. Slowly up your mileage. At your current mileage, something like this would be a good start: http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51131/Half-Marathon-Novice-1-Training-Program
edit: And, for the most part, most of your gains even in short races are going to come from doing more miles at this point. I made great gains in my 5k time by training for a half marathon. And took another big chunk off by training for a full marathon.
Thank you, but how do i modify something like that for my timeframe? I only have 6 weeks.
Wouldnt it leave me likely to injure myself going from a 6 mile run to a 13 in one week? I would think it would be better to more agressively add mileage now, in smaller chunks (1.5-2 miles a week) than all at once??0 -
The_Enginerd wrote: »
Ah, I've misread your original post. I thought the half was in November. With only 6 weeks to go, I'd start adding a bit of length to your long runs, 1/2 mile per week, and build up to 5-6 miles. Add 1/2 mile every two weeks to one of your midweek runs. You don't have enough time to go beyond that without building up mileage too quickly.The_Enginerd wrote: »If you are running just 5k 3 times a week, your greatest gains are going to be from doing more miles and building your aerobic base. Slowly up your mileage. At your current mileage, something like this would be a good start: http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51131/Half-Marathon-Novice-1-Training-Program
edit: And, for the most part, most of your gains even in short races are going to come from doing more miles at this point. I made great gains in my 5k time by training for a half marathon. And took another big chunk off by training for a full marathon.
Thank you, but how do i modify something like that for my timeframe? I only have 6 weeks.
Wouldnt it leave me likely to injure myself going from a 6 mile run to a 13 in one week? I would think it would be better to more agressively add mileage now, in smaller chunks (1.5-2 miles a week) than all at once??
Yes, but honestly just about any scenario of you building to running a half from a 5k in 5-6 weeks is likely to injure yourself. I also would not try to keep up with your friend and PR by 8+ minutes based on your training to date.
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The_Enginerd wrote: »
Ah, I've misread your original post. I thought the half was in November. With only 6 weeks to go, I'd start adding a bit of length to your long runs, 1/2 mile per week, and build up to 5-6 miles. Add 1/2 mile every two weeks to one of your midweek runs. You don't have enough time to go beyond that without building up mileage too quickly.The_Enginerd wrote: »If you are running just 5k 3 times a week, your greatest gains are going to be from doing more miles and building your aerobic base. Slowly up your mileage. At your current mileage, something like this would be a good start: http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51131/Half-Marathon-Novice-1-Training-Program
edit: And, for the most part, most of your gains even in short races are going to come from doing more miles at this point. I made great gains in my 5k time by training for a half marathon. And took another big chunk off by training for a full marathon.
Thank you, but how do i modify something like that for my timeframe? I only have 6 weeks.
Wouldnt it leave me likely to injure myself going from a 6 mile run to a 13 in one week? I would think it would be better to more agressively add mileage now, in smaller chunks (1.5-2 miles a week) than all at once??
Yes, but honestly just about any scenario of you building to running a half from a 5k in 5-6 weeks is likely to injure yourself. I also would not try to keep up with your friend and PR by 8+ minutes based on your training to date.
I would agree if she hadn't done this before, but she has run a half less than 3 months ago. I think she will be okay to build back up to the half in 6 weeks.
As per your thoughts on running 3X 4 miles + a long run, I think that might be a bit of a quick build up. Going from 9 miles per week to 17-18 miles is pretty much doubling your mileage. I honestly don't see what that extra day is going to get you at this point. I think you will be fine doing 3 days per week, but that's just my opinion. You will hear a lot of people advise that the best way to get better at running distances is to run more miles. While I fully agree with this, this advice is mainly reserved for people who are looking to improve their running performance (endurance and speed) over the long haul. Time is not on your side in this case, so you have to stick with what is going to give you the most bang for your buck in a short amount of time. Unfortunately, risk of injury from drastically increasing your overall mileage so quickly will outweigh any benefits you will notice in the form of improved aerobic capacity. As far as running the entire race at an 8 min PR...it really just depends on you. I don't know a lot about your running history or how you prepared for and/or ran your last half marathon. All of these things matter. I can't tell you to go for it, that it will be easy. But if YOU think you can do it, then I think you can to.0 -
I'm gonna side with @lporter229 on this one. Keep your schedule pretty similar with increasing long runs ~1 mile per week; if you max out at 9 miles for a long run, that's not ideal, but it's what you have time for. Your last HM wasn't all that long ago, so let the excitement of the race carry you through the last few miles.
As for running with your friend, you can give it a go for the first 4-5 miles, but if she's wanting to go faster than you, let her go and agree to meet up at the end for some post-race brunch (I mean, really, any race should include post-race brunch... or plain old lunch! Whatever meal strikes your fancy!) 0 -
Thank you both for your unput!0
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kristinegift wrote: »I'm gonna side with @lporter229 on this one. Keep your schedule pretty similar with increasing long runs ~1 mile per week; if you max out at 9 miles for a long run, that's not ideal, but it's what you have time for. Your last HM wasn't all that long ago, so let the excitement of the race carry you through the last few miles.
As for running with your friend, you can give it a go for the first 4-5 miles, but if she's wanting to go faster than you, let her go and agree to meet up at the end for some post-race brunch (I mean, really, any race should include post-race brunch... or plain old lunch! Whatever meal strikes your fancy!)
Yes, if I try to do it...obviously I wont hold her back if I cant hack it halfway through. 0 -
lporter229 wrote: »The_Enginerd wrote: »
Ah, I've misread your original post. I thought the half was in November. With only 6 weeks to go, I'd start adding a bit of length to your long runs, 1/2 mile per week, and build up to 5-6 miles. Add 1/2 mile every two weeks to one of your midweek runs. You don't have enough time to go beyond that without building up mileage too quickly.The_Enginerd wrote: »If you are running just 5k 3 times a week, your greatest gains are going to be from doing more miles and building your aerobic base. Slowly up your mileage. At your current mileage, something like this would be a good start: http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51131/Half-Marathon-Novice-1-Training-Program
edit: And, for the most part, most of your gains even in short races are going to come from doing more miles at this point. I made great gains in my 5k time by training for a half marathon. And took another big chunk off by training for a full marathon.
Thank you, but how do i modify something like that for my timeframe? I only have 6 weeks.
Wouldnt it leave me likely to injure myself going from a 6 mile run to a 13 in one week? I would think it would be better to more agressively add mileage now, in smaller chunks (1.5-2 miles a week) than all at once??
Yes, but honestly just about any scenario of you building to running a half from a 5k in 5-6 weeks is likely to injure yourself. I also would not try to keep up with your friend and PR by 8+ minutes based on your training to date.
I would agree if she hadn't done this before, but she has run a half less than 3 months ago. I think she will be okay to build back up to the half in 6 weeks.
As per your thoughts on running 3X 4 miles + a long run, I think that might be a bit of a quick build up. Going from 9 miles per week to 17-18 miles is pretty much doubling your mileage. I honestly don't see what that extra day is going to get you at this point. I think you will be fine doing 3 days per week, but that's just my opinion. You will hear a lot of people advise that the best way to get better at running distances is to run more miles. While I fully agree with this, this advice is mainly reserved for people who are looking to improve their running performance (endurance and speed) over the long haul. Time is not on your side in this case, so you have to stick with what is going to give you the most bang for your buck in a short amount of time. Unfortunately, risk of injury from drastically increasing your overall mileage so quickly will outweigh any benefits you will notice in the form of improved aerobic capacity. As far as running the entire race at an 8 min PR...it really just depends on you. I don't know a lot about your running history or how you prepared for and/or ran your last half marathon. All of these things matter. I can't tell you to go for it, that it will be easy. But if YOU think you can do it, then I think you can to.
The problem is she injured herself the last time following a plan that most likely included a long run of 10+ miles and certainly had a weekly total over 9.3 miles (5k x 3). Can it be done, maybe, but I feel a miserable time will be had. The advise to stay with her friend, at a pace that is 40 seconds per mile faster than her last half isn't advisable even for the first 4-5 miles. Going out too fast for your conditioning typically leads to a disastrous finish. If you try to do this listen to your body and don't be too proud to admit you're woefully under-trained and quit. I speak from experience that stress reactions and stress fractures from running too fast, too soon suck.0 -
Just my opinion here, and I'm offering it solely based on my own personal experience.
I was running full marathon distance last fall, last event was a full on 11/15/2015. After a recovery period I started running again in December and was training for speed. So most of my runs were in the 3 to 5 mile range max, mostly at efforts higher than I would run at when training for a longer distance like a half or full. In the middle of February I started adding long runs back into the mix to begin building up mileage again as my goals were more halfs and fulls this year.
It was hard to do those long runs. Very hard. Not impossible, but the longest I could complete was 8-10 miles and I was quite depleted at that point.
Basically my long distance running conditioning mostly evaporated in that long period from November through mid-February. I had been training more of my fast-twitch muscle fibers and working at faster paces (with the long term goal of faster half and full times, but starting at shorter distances). Trying to then take that foundation I had built those last couple months and make it run far was not congruent with the training and muscle/cardio development I had been training under.
I think you can do it in 6 weeks. It's been a similar time for me and I am now doing 12 mile long runs, so I'm basically half ready. But took that long to get here.
My advice is to start base building right now. Ditch the speedwork, it will do you no good. Instead start focusing on increasing your weekly mileage, and getting one good long run in per week. Be careful not to make that long run be too much of your weekly mileage though (recommended to be no more than 33% of weekly mileage by a lot of smart people). Long runs alone will not get you there. You need to adapt those muscles with lots of weekly mileage at that slower long run pace. So your other runs are also critical. If you are running 3 times/week right now, try going to 4 times/week. If you are only running 3 miles per run right now, try your first week at 3x4 mile runs plus a 6 mile run as your first long run. Add a mile to your long run each week, and add distance to your other runs as you can, hopefully you could do 3x6 mile runs and a 9 miler perhaps. Also take a down week in the middle somewhere as 6 weeks of continuous advancement is hard, you will need some rest. You should be able to do it but only if you start adapting your body to run at your half marathon pace and get your mileage up to snuff to be able to go the distance. I am half ready after 6 weeks, but I had a little bit of a benefit from running 5-6 days/week which helps.
Also, why not just ditch the idea of running with that friend which you probably won't be able to keep up with for 13.1 miles anyway? If you really want to go the full 13.1 miles then maybe set your expectations to run alone, and if your training shows you that you could keep up with that friend, then start considering it and go for it! Just a thought...
Good luck!0 -
The_Enginerd wrote: »
Ah, I've misread your original post. I thought the half was in November. With only 6 weeks to go, I'd start adding a bit of length to your long runs, 1/2 mile per week, and build up to 5-6 miles. Add 1/2 mile every two weeks to one of your midweek runs. You don't have enough time to go beyond that without building up mileage too quickly.The_Enginerd wrote: »If you are running just 5k 3 times a week, your greatest gains are going to be from doing more miles and building your aerobic base. Slowly up your mileage. At your current mileage, something like this would be a good start: http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51131/Half-Marathon-Novice-1-Training-Program
edit: And, for the most part, most of your gains even in short races are going to come from doing more miles at this point. I made great gains in my 5k time by training for a half marathon. And took another big chunk off by training for a full marathon.
Thank you, but how do i modify something like that for my timeframe? I only have 6 weeks.
Wouldnt it leave me likely to injure myself going from a 6 mile run to a 13 in one week? I would think it would be better to more agressively add mileage now, in smaller chunks (1.5-2 miles a week) than all at once??
Not anymore than adding mileage too aggressively in the weeks prior to the race. You had the higher base from your previous 1/2 training, and you can typically add mileage quicker if you have a previous base, but with the history of a prior injury, I'd be hesitant to recommend adding mileage too quickly to your training runs. At this soon out from the race, you aren't going to be adding any significant fitness by ramping up your mileage.0 -
Here's some good inspiration for you, mkakids:
I plugged your 5k PR time into a race predictor and it spat out a potential half marathon time of 2:21 for you. Here's the one I used, it's nice because you gives you different aggressiveness settings: https://app.box.com/shared/qr1u960kfg. (I set it on the lowest one given your mileage). Was that recent?... Plugging in 30:00 spat out a time of 2:31, which also is very close to your target. 0 -
@dsg2000 That's a pretty cool spreadsheet.0
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WhatMeRunning wrote: »Just my opinion here, and I'm offering it solely based on my own personal experience.
I was running full marathon distance last fall, last event was a full on 11/15/2015. After a recovery period I started running again in December and was training for speed. So most of my runs were in the 3 to 5 mile range max, mostly at efforts higher than I would run at when training for a longer distance like a half or full. In the middle of February I started adding long runs back into the mix to begin building up mileage again as my goals were more halfs and fulls this year.
It was hard to do those long runs. Very hard. Not impossible, but the longest I could complete was 8-10 miles and I was quite depleted at that point.
Basically my long distance running conditioning mostly evaporated in that long period from November through mid-February. I had been training more of my fast-twitch muscle fibers and working at faster paces (with the long term goal of faster half and full times, but starting at shorter distances). Trying to then take that foundation I had built those last couple months and make it run far was not congruent with the training and muscle/cardio development I had been training under.
I think you can do it in 6 weeks. It's been a similar time for me and I am now doing 12 mile long runs, so I'm basically half ready. But took that long to get here.
My advice is to start base building right now. Ditch the speedwork, it will do you no good. Instead start focusing on increasing your weekly mileage, and getting one good long run in per week. Be careful not to make that long run be too much of your weekly mileage though (recommended to be no more than 33% of weekly mileage by a lot of smart people). Long runs alone will not get you there. You need to adapt those muscles with lots of weekly mileage at that slower long run pace. So your other runs are also critical. If you are running 3 times/week right now, try going to 4 times/week. If you are only running 3 miles per run right now, try your first week at 3x4 mile runs plus a 6 mile run as your first long run. Add a mile to your long run each week, and add distance to your other runs as you can, hopefully you could do 3x6 mile runs and a 9 miler perhaps. Also take a down week in the middle somewhere as 6 weeks of continuous advancement is hard, you will need some rest. You should be able to do it but only if you start adapting your body to run at your half marathon pace and get your mileage up to snuff to be able to go the distance. I am half ready after 6 weeks, but I had a little bit of a benefit from running 5-6 days/week which helps.
Also, why not just ditch the idea of running with that friend which you probably won't be able to keep up with for 13.1 miles anyway? If you really want to go the full 13.1 miles then maybe set your expectations to run alone, and if your training shows you that you could keep up with that friend, then start considering it and go for it! Just a thought...
Good luck!
Thank you for the feedback!0 -
Here's some good inspiration for you, mkakids:
I plugged your 5k PR time into a race predictor and it spat out a potential half marathon time of 2:21 for you. Here's the one I used, it's nice because you gives you different aggressiveness settings: https://app.box.com/shared/qr1u960kfg. (I set it on the lowest one given your mileage). Was that recent?... Plugging in 30:00 spat out a time of 2:31, which also is very close to your target.
The 28min 5k was just last week. Thanks for the link!0 -
oh, then with some solid training you should totally be fine.
@MNLittleFinn: Yeah, I used to lurk a lot on the runnersworld marathon forums and that spreadsheet always got pulled out when anyone had a question about goal time/pace. All the different settings are definitely a great addition.0
This discussion has been closed.