Marathon-specific workouts

ariceroni

Hi all! I'm putting together a training plan for my first marathon (in October). I have a few different training plans that I've been looking at as possible templates, but I was hoping some of the more experienced marathon runners in the group could help me out a bit here with some workout ideas. I currently do primarily shorter interval repeats (400m and 800m near 5K pace) for speed workouts, but I figure that's not necessarily the best way to train for a marathon haha.

What are some of your favorite marathon-specific workouts?

kristinegift

For your first marathon, I would simply emphasize long miles and easy miles. I haven't really done speedwork for the marathon until my last two training cycles (3rd and 4th marathons) when I've been chasing tougher paces for a BQ. For your first marathon, I doubt you'll be trying to run at an all-out long distance pace (correct me if I'm wrong!). I'd recommend, rather than focusing on speed, trying to do a very easy long run on the weekend, a midweek long run (8-10 miles probably), and running enough that you are sort of fatigued in the legs most of the time. I do a run the day before my long run to better prep my mind and body for how my legs will feel during the marathon.

That being said, these are my favorite workouts that I do during a training cycle:
-Fast finishes: at the end of a 15-16 mile run, I spend 3-5 miles at marathon or half-marathon pace. I do the first part of the run about 1 min/mile above pace (8:50-9:00 pace) and then drop to 8:00 or faster for the end.
-Strength ladders: my FAAAAVE treadmill workout. 1 mile warm up, then .25 at 5k pace, .25 recovery, .5 10k pace, .25 recovery, .75 HM pace, .25 reccovery, 1 mile marathon pace, and then work your way back down and do a 1 mile cool down. I like this workout because it gives me a chance to refresh my body on what the faster speeds feel like when I'm usually just running everything conversation and easy.

MobyCarp

I agree with @kristinegift that miles, long miles, and more miles with the emphasis on easy miles is the most important thing.

What I failed to appreciate getting to my first marathon is the importance of a strong base. That training cycle, I had a good base of maybe 25 miles per week and peaked out at 41 miles. In my current training cycle, I started with a good base of 46 miles per week and peaked out at 68 miles. The difference is, in the first training cycle the 22 mile easy long run left me feeling like I'd done something big but maybe could run a couple more miles. But in my current training cycle, my last 22 mile run left me feeling like I could have picked up the pace and run another 4 miles. I was very beat up after my first marathon; I'm expecting to be in better shape after my second marathon 2 weeks from Monday.

That being said, my current training plan has a wide variety of speed workouts in it. Early on, there was shorter and faster speed work designed to improve form. (R pace, about your one mile race pace) Later, there was a lot of I pace (about your 5K race pace) designed to improve lactate threshold. Late in the cycle, there was a lot of T pace (lactic threshold, sometimes called "comfortably hard," slower than your 5K race pace) designed to improve endurance. The theory is that the improved from from the work at R carries through the rest of the training, giving you greater running economy; and the improved threshold from the work at I gives you a faster T pace. There are also some workouts designed to be run at MP (pace for planned marathon finish time), mostly designed to get you used to running at the pace you'll need to maintain in the marathon.

The faster speed work has shorter intervals, and the slower speed work has longer intervals. Both are necessary to optimize speed, but I like the longer workouts better. Since you asked, here are a couple that I think really helped me:

15 total miles: 3 miles at E, 2 x (4 miles at MP, 1 mile at T), 2 miles at E
By running T after 4 miles of MP, you simulate the tired legs of the late marathon for the second 4 miles at MP and the push for a fast finish with the second mile at T. This one is really challenging.

17 total miles: 2 miles at E, 13 miles at MP, 2 miles at E
Instead of a standard easy long run, you start and end easy with a long stretch in the middle practicing the pace that will be needed on race day. This one builds mental confidence for maintaining marathon pace over an extended distance.

I would note that the plan I'm following doesn't have stuff like this for consecutive Saturdays. The pattern is, a traditional long slow run one week, a long workout the next, another traditional long slow run the week after that.

But for a first marathon, where the focus is more on finishing than on finishing fast, put the emphasis on miles, more miles, and easy miles. Lots of miles during the week, and a long run peaking at 20 or 22 miles supported by mid week runs that develop you to the point where a 10 mile run isn't long. You can get through a marathon without doing any speed work at all; but you are unlikely to get through a marathon without running a lot of miles in training.

Stoshew71

I echo that the most important thing is getting the mileage in. Don't worry about speed workouts. Just get the miles in. Long runs and building up your weekly mileage. If anything, maybe some strides or surges or fartlek runs. But most important the first time around is just getting the mileage in and starting at conversational paces for the most part.

Later on after base building is completed, your tempo runs become important.

I don't do any 400 or 800 meter repeats. Nor any kind of interval or repeat runs. I am still at the point where more mileage and maybe tempo runs will get me to where I need to be.

kristinegift

@MobyCarp I've never done more than 10 mile long speed sessions (my negative split practice days on cutback weeks), but that 15 mile E-MP-T-E has me intrigued. I'll keep that in mind for my next cycle. Speed workouts in the double digits freak me out quite frankly, but I think for next fall I'll have to add them in here and there if I want to keep seeing double-digit drops in my marathon times!

MobyCarp

@kristinegift - Late in the training cycle, I've come to understand that the speed workouts don't live in isolation. They start fairly easy, and build to be more challenging. Before I got to that 15 mile workout, the plan had me do 2 miles E, 3 miles MP, 2 miles E, 2 miles MP, 1 mile E. I think the idea was to get used to switching paces on a longer, continual run before the more challenging workout showed up.

Probably the toughest speed workout in my plan called for 3 x (3 miles at T with 3 minutes recovery), sandwiched between 2 miles E to start and finish. I didn't run that one. Coach had me tone it down to 2 x (2 miles at T with 2 minutes recovery) because it was on a Thursday and I had a race on Saturday. I did well at that race; essentially, I ran 5 miles on the road at about the pace I'd been running T on the track and finished with a faster sprint to the line.

MobyCarp

I suppose it would be appropriate to mention my least favorite marathon training speed workout, the Yasso 800's.

You run them on the track, and target finishing the 800m in the same minutes and seconds that you want to finish hours and minutes for the marathon. So if you're targeting a 3 hour 30 minute marathon, you target a three minute 30 second 800. Between the 800's you take the same time in recovery.

So if your target marathon finish is 3:30, the perfectly executed Yasso's would be 10 x 800m in 3:30 each, with 3:30 recovery between 800's. The theory is that if you can sustain that pace through 10 800's, you're in good enough shape to finish the marathon in that time. There are proponents and detractors of this theory, but it's undeniable that 10 x Yasso 800's is a challenging workout.

I ran 8 x Yasso 800's earlier in the current training cycle, and could not quite sustain the pace for the 8th 800. Coach said I was on track for that point of the training plan. When the 10 x Yasso 800's came up, I was nursing a sore ankle and didn't attempt to run all 10 of them. I ran 4, which was all the beating I was willing to put my ankle through. That tells me exactly nothing about my cardio conditioning.

lporter229

I also agree with what has been said by everyone here. For my last marathon, I ran 6 days per week with roughly this format:

M: short, easy, recovery pace or rest
T: mid length run with tempo
W: mid week "long" run (10-12 miles), easy pace
Th: mid length run with intervals or hill repeats
F: short, easy, recovery or rest
Sat: easyish run
Sun: long run

Sat/Sun runs were interchangeable depending on what was on my weekend agenda (although it can be really hard, I tried not to let marathon training completely dictate my life). I usually played around with some sort of speed play (partial to the fast finish) on my long run on either 1 or 2 weeks of a three week cycle. Every third week the long run was a cut back run at easy pace. I think the fast finish long runs were the most helpful for me. I occasionally added a second run to Tues or Thursday, short and easy, but truthfully, I hated two a days. The amount of time taken out of my day just from the extra shower, getting ready to run, etc. really was not worth it to me.

My average mileage over 16 weeks leading up to my marathon was 46 miles, with a max of several weeks at 62 miles. This is probably a lot less than most of the others here shooting for BQs, but I was able to exceed my goal and have a pretty comfortable race.

MobyCarp

@lporter229 - I'm glad to hear that you had a comfortable marathon on a peak of 62 miles for several weeks. That looks about like what I've done, several weeks at 62 and a couple peaks at 68. However, everyone I know thinks I'm training crazy hard, except my buddy who used the same plan for Wineglass and improved his time by 10 minutes from the prior year.

ariceroni

Thank you everyone for the great feedback!
@kristinegift - I would of course like to qualify for Boston in the future (what runner doesn't?!?), but as this is my first marathon my goals are to complete the training cycle without injury, finish the marathon strong, and figure out where I am now so that I can improve in the future!

It sounds like building up mileage should definitely be my main priority here. I'm currently running 40-50 mpw and have long runs of 12-15 miles on the weekends, so I think the 24+ weeks until the marathon should give me plenty of time to work up to 20 mile long runs and a few 60+ mile weeks. I have a hard time imagining doing a midweek 10 miler, but should be able to work that into my schedule if I get up early enough and ditch my wednesday doubles.

@MobyCarp - Those double-digit speed workouts sound really challenging! I've used a similar progression of shorter, faster repeats early on in the training cycle and switching to longer ones later one. It was really successful for getting me in top shape for my last HM, so I imagine it is a great strategy for marathon training too.

I definitely agree that Yasso 800s don't necessarily seem specific to marathon training. I did 8x800m with 400m of recovery a few weeks back, averaged 3:38 and felt like I could have done another two at similar pace. Yet I know there's no way I could currently run a 3:38 marathon, I just have a natural inclination for the speed side of the spectrum.

@lporter229 - Thank you for sharing a sample week of running, I think I'm definitely going to adopt something similar!