From marathons to 5Ks...

kristinegift

Hey all!

So I am in taper town for my marathon on May 1, and I am starting to contemplate post-race plans (aka: budget for race fees). I think that for a few months after this marathon (my fourth), I want to focus on 5Ks. I got my butt handed to me at a 5k this spring, so I've been thinking that to get a break from the long miles of marathon training during the summer, I'd do some 5K-specific training and sign up for 3-4 races between June and August to see if I can figure out how to race harder for a shorter distance. Plus, if I can drop my 5K PR from just under 22:00 to around 20:00-20:30 over the summer, hopefully that will mean faster HM and marathon times in the fall! ::fingers crossed!::

Any long distance runners have some advice for me on where to get good ideas for training or some high caliber training plans? I'd like to keep my mileage around 40-45 miles per week, with 14-16 mile runs on non-5k race weekends. Anyone else refocused for a while on "short" distances (not that 5k is short!), and how'd you do it?

MobyCarp

People in my running club train for all distances of races. Guys who have done both 5Ks and marathons tell me that focusing on getting faster on the shorter distances takes something away from their marathons, and vice versa. THBS, just doing a few speed workouts for a 5K with this club, plus some encouragement from the coach, brought my 5K PR from 20:10 to 19:16. There's something to be said for the speed work in the week before a 5K honing the edge for the race.

40-45 miles per week is fine for racing distances from 3K to 15K. Most of the miles being easy, including your long run, is fine. The 5K training will have shorter, faster speed work than half or marathon training will. I'd love to give you examples, but I haven't done much of it and I'm not confident that I understand the details. I do remember the 15 second cutbacks as being traditional for the Thursday before a Saturday or Sunday 5K: 90 seconds at R, 90 seconds recovery, 75 seconds at R, 75 seconds recovery, and so on down to 15 seconds. It doesn't feel like very much work, but it seems to put an edge on speed for race day. (R is approximately your 1 mile race pace, a bit less that the fastest you can sprint.)

I expect to be focusing on distances ranging from 5K to 15K after Boston, but I'll be handed the workouts that go with the focus.

Elise4270

Of course I'm not experienced in this. But am sort of in the same situation. I want to run a fast 5k, and still be good in half.

I've been running my first 3 miles at a faster pace, then switch back to my slow interval runs (1km run, 0.05-0.1 mile walk) . I don't know what I'm doing, no direction just meshing both worlds in one run.

I've noticed my 5k is faster and easier. I've noticed my walk intervals are getting shorter and I have a few days a week that I walk every other walk break (run 2-4km, walk 0.1 miles). Not sure why I'm mixing units- just works for me.

I have a lot of room for improvement-and it may not matter how I'm doing it, so not sure how anything like that would work for you, a more conditioned runner.

rightoncommander

What I'd do in your position is this: concentrate like crazy on the 5k for about 6 weeks with one specific target race in mind, drop the long runs and do some lung-bursting repeats. Do the race, and then pick up the marathon/HM training plan a little sooner than you suggested.

I say this because you already have an impressive aerobic base, so distance won't help your 5k at this stage. A 15-miler will do nothing to improve your 5k time. Also, if 40-45 miles is close to your marathon training mileage, definitely drop it. This will enable you to increase the intensity of your intervals, which will give a big boost to your speed.

If you don't want to make these compromises to your HM/marathon training, just stick with an HM regime and use 5ks for race sharpness. You may surprise yourself with your times.

In a couple of weeks, I'll be starting some 5k training with a goal of (finally) breaking 20:00. The regime I'm following has less than 30mpw, but is very intense. Last time I tried it was right after a marathon, and I dropped 12s off my 5k pb in a couple of weeks, before an injury from the 26.2 caught up with me and stopped me in my tracks.

kristinegift

@MobyCarp If you find any of those post-Boston workouts especially helpful, don't hesitate to pass them along! I have some teammates who specialize in 5k, so I'll have to ask their advice as well.

@Elise4270 I've also noticed 5k getting easier thanks to running long distances (I could never have imagined doing on at a 7 min pace a year or two ago!), but the racing itself still stumps me. You can't really make up time in a 5k like you might in a HM or a full, so I need to learn how to really gut it out!

@rightoncommander Great advice, thanks! 40-45 is actually a 20 mpw drop from my current marathon mileage, and for a fall marathon I'll be aiming for a max of 70 mpw. I just really enjoy long runs, so I couldn't cut them for 2-3 months without heartbreak. If you have a link to the plan you'll be using, I'd love to check it out! Or if when you start it, you find some really gruelling but helpful workouts, feel free to post 'em

MobyCarp

@kristinegift - One other thought occurs to me, and that's the race warmup. Many runners warm up for a mile or maybe 2 miles. For a 5K, I like to run a preview of the entire course as a warmup. It's farther than most other 5K runners I know, but I have several reasons.

1. As a marathon runner, I need longer to warm up than people who never run anything longer than a 10K do. So I follow the maxim quoted by other endurance athletes (iron men as well as marathon runners): The shorter the race, the longer the warmup. At the extreme, I had 10 miles of easy before my last 5 mile race and finished the race 18 seconds faster than goal.

2. I'm a big fan of previews of the end of the course on races, and a 5K is short enough for a preview of the entire course. This gets me familiar with the course and, most importantly, familiar with exactly how far I am from the finish line. When the clueless spectator shouts, "You're almost done," I know that I'm only at the 4K mark and it's easier to ignore him and run the last 1000m as I should.

3. A 5K is run faster than lactic threshold, and the preview of the course helps me judge whether I have the gas to sustain my pace for the rest of the race. This is no big deal if you only want to finish running, but it's hugely important for trying to improve a PR. I expect to feel worse 4K into a 5K than 20K into a half marathon, and that's okay. Once I cross the line, I can stop and catch my breath. I'll recover more quickly than I would from a half.

You may decide you don't need that long a warmup, as it isn't common among runners. But the biggest concern a lot of runners have with a long warmup is using too much energy and not having it left for the race. You are a marathon runner, so you won't have that problem with a 5K course preview as a warmup.

Stoshew71

rightoncommander wrote: »

What I'd do in your position is this: concentrate like crazy on the 5k for about 6 weeks with one specific target race in mind, drop the long runs and do some lung-bursting repeats. Do the race, and then pick up the marathon/HM training plan a little sooner than you suggested.

I say this because you already have an impressive aerobic base, so distance won't help your 5k at this stage. A 15-miler will do nothing to improve your 5k time. Also, if 40-45 miles is close to your marathon training mileage, definitely drop it. This will enable you to increase the intensity of your intervals, which will give a big boost to your speed.

If you don't want to make these compromises to your HM/marathon training, just stick with an HM regime and use 5ks for race sharpness. You may surprise yourself with your times.

In a couple of weeks, I'll be starting some 5k training with a goal of (finally) breaking 20:00. The regime I'm following has less than 30mpw, but is very intense. Last time I tried it was right after a marathon, and I dropped 12s off my 5k pb in a couple of weeks, before an injury from the 26.2 caught up with me and stopped me in my tracks.

I like this idea. Speed work only works for 5-6 weeks and then it starts to degrade your performance.

kristinegift

@MobyCarp - The long preview/warm up is a great idea. On Saturday, I'm doing a 6k race (auto PR!, lol) and a few other 'thoners and I are running 10 miles to get to the event. I'll have only just worked out the kinks by then

@Stoshew71 Will read the sneakily linked article! 5-6 weeks sounds like just the right amount of time to lay low, kill myself with 5k training, and then get back to my usual fare.