glycogen stores, rehydrating, and other science-y stuff

4leighbee

I'm going to be experimenting during my long runs this summer in anticipation of my first marathon. One of the things that has me anxious is how to ensure I don't fall apart for a reason I could have avoided - i.e., hydration and nutrition. I'm a water girl, so all the talk of gels and gummies and such eludes me.

Please share with me your best tips for staying hydrated and full of glycogen (? lol) during your runs. Also, there are many choices - can you share which brand(s) you consider to be bogus and which are well-known and trusted? Which taste best (or, more to the point maybe, taste least)?

Here's the catch: the idea of a "gel" that you suck from a bag doesn't appeal to me. Should I give it a try anyway? Are there options which net an identical result?

Thanks very much for your thoughts.

MobyCarp

Physiologically, it doesn't matter whether you take gels or chews or real food. What matters is that you get some calories into your system that you can use and, more importantly, some electrolytes. The lack of electrolytes is why serious runners don't just do candy; the easy candy to eat on the run has plenty of sugar, but no sodium, potassium, or magnesium to speak of.

Get used to the idea of sodium being good. Yes, the sound track on all the health improvement stuff says to consume less sodium. That message is aimed at sedentary people with the typical American diet. Runners are far more likely to suffer from too little sodium than too much.

For hydration, carry water and/or electrolyte drink with you. Train with it. Learn to drink before you are thirsty, because if you wait till you're thirsty during a marathon you are likely to end up in the medical tent. Try different sources of fuel on your long runs to determine what you can tolerate and perhaps even what you like. Don't bother trying the stuff in the store; it tastes a whole lot better 5 miles into a run when your body needs it than it does when you're standing around before you start the run. I've been using Nuun for electrolyte drink. It's done well for me in half marathons and shorter races, but the evidence from marathons is that I may need something with a higher concentration of electrolytes.

I think you should try gels even though the concept doesn't appeal to you. If you can work with GU and Clif Shot gels, that's great because those are the brands most commonly handed out on race courses. (Buffalo gave out GUs; Boston gave out Clif Shot gels.) Late in a marathon, it can be a lot easier to use the gel the volunteer hands me rather than retrieve one from my pouch; but I need them in my pouch because there's no guarantee they will be handed out before I need them.

One of the major advantages of gels is that you can carry more of them than of bulkier fuels/foods. I used 7 gels to get through Buffalo, I think 6 to get through Boston (and should have used 7 or 8, in hindsight).

There are chews that are nutritionally equivalent to gels. Clif is more noted for Clif Shot Blocks than gels, and GU has GU Chomps. The knock on chews is that some runners find it hard to deal with them in a race environment due to how much chewing they need. Other runners do well with them. Chews are typically designed to be taken more frequently, e.g. three Clif Shot Blocks are roughly equal to one gel.

If there was one thing that really worked better than everything else, all the runners would be using it. Reality is that different solutions work for different people and the only way to find out what works for you is to try things. That's part of what long training runs are for.

kristinegift

Hydration: I used to do plain ol' water. But for a marathon I needed something extra. Typically, I carry a bottle of my own water with additives, and about 3-4 water stops in I'll start taking on-course water. I used to mix with Osmo, but then I switched to nuun. I first thought nuun was gross because I tried the tri-berry and did not like it. I've tried a ton of flavors now and my favorites for running are lemon-lime, strawberry lemonade, and watermelon.

Fuel: Personally, I like gels. Though I DETEST Gu brand gels. I think they're thick and sticky and hard to swallow. I have three brands I prefer: Honey Stinger (acai pomegranate flavor), Clif Shot (Razz flavor), and Power Bar gel (Strawberry Banana; this one has caffeine). I usually do 1 HS, 1 CS and 2 PB because the honey stinger is delicious but low in sodium, whereas the others have enough sodium (and are also delicious and have a good texture). I'll also bring some dried pineapple and have 1-2 pieces between gels, but later in the marathon eating becomes a bit more difficult as you're more dehydrated generally. But I've found dried fruit to be a good "real food" alternative to candy because it is less gummy and more chewy and has really really simple sugars that break down very easily, and dried pineapple has some beneficial vits/minerals that candy probably doesn't have.

I don't like chews though, even though I used them in training for my first marathon. And here's my reasons: in the later stages of a marathon, chewing stuff is hard work. And a whole package of chews are only 150-160 calories, or two 100 calorie servings typically. So you can't just eat one chew at a time. You have to eat a few, which means carrying 2-3 packages of chews which is very high space-consumption. It's way more work than gels, which makes gels worth trying out, finding a good brand, and figuring out how to eat on the go.

I also tried salt tab caps on my 22 miler a few weeks ago, and if you are a very salty/heavy sweater, you may want to invest in some. I used to have awful foot cramps after long runs and every other LR I'd get a headache, but I had neither after taking 2 salt tabs on my 22er. I'm definitely going to be bringing them to my marathon on May 1.

Note: Flavor preferences are obviously geared toward "sweet and fruity." Most of my running buddies can't believe I can deal with all that sweetness on the run. I, on the other hand, don't understand how they can eat gels flavored like chocolate, espresso or peanut butter while running. Ick!

litsy3

I have kind of the opposite approach to the other posters, probably because when I started running I wasn't looking ahead to doing long races, so I just used to go out and run before breakfast. But I do still believe in doing most of my training without fuel (and very often 'fasted' because I like to get my easy and long runs out of the way at the start of the day). Because I built up my distance naturally over several years, I've never felt any run was too long for my energy stores to last, and my body has adapted to be better at burning fat stores for fuel (and topping up later) rather than having to rely on fuel top-ups while I run.

I do use 4 gels in a marathon and maybe one or two on one of my long runs just to make sure they still agree with me. And I have breakfast on race day and make sure I have a substantial lunch and snack before an evening track session.

kristinegift

@litsy3 Seconding the motion to run fasted! I find it helpful (and convenient) to do my shorter long runs and midweek runs without fuel. I eat more than enough to have gas in the tank for a solid 1.5-1.75 hours first thing in the morning, and I don't take any water or fuel for a HM race anymore. However for weekend long runs, I do practice race day stuff: I eat the breakfast I'll eat on race day. I drink a cup of coffee. I take gels on the run with me (only for runs over 14-15 miles and then I usually take 1 or 2 gels only even though I take 4 on race day; similar to litsy's plan). I take water with me so I can test out nuun flavors. But for any other run: nothing.

litsy3

I practice race day stuff on other (less important) races. It's more similar to actually racing than a long run is. For example, I know from experience that I can drink coffee before an easy-paced run with no problems, but if I drink it before a race (when I'm working harder) it makes me nauseous.

I don't really like gels and I don't need them on easy runs, so I'm happy to run 22 miles fasted. I take them in a marathon because they don't do me any harm, so I might as well assume they're doing some good.

4leighbee

with the gels - what is it improving? decreased cramping? increased energy?

kristinegift

For me, it's an energy boost -- especially for gels with caffeine. May also help with cramping if you have gels with decent levels of potassium (?) and sodium. And it's something to break up the miles. I always look forward to my gels!

lporter229

litsy3 wrote: »

I have kind of the opposite approach to the other posters, probably because when I started running I wasn't looking ahead to doing long races, so I just used to go out and run before breakfast. But I do still believe in doing most of my training without fuel (and very often 'fasted' because I like to get my easy and long runs out of the way at the start of the day). Because I built up my distance naturally over several years, I've never felt any run was too long for my energy stores to last, and my body has adapted to be better at burning fat stores for fuel (and topping up later) rather than having to rely on fuel top-ups while I run.

I do use 4 gels in a marathon and maybe one or two on one of my long runs just to make sure they still agree with me. And I have breakfast on race day and make sure I have a substantial lunch and snack before an evening track session.

This is me too. I think that running fasted has definitely improved my ability to use my fat stores for fuel. I have never had the dreaded "wall" experience in a training run or a marathon. But I do fuel during a marathon. It's definitely necessary. I fuel every 45 minutes whether I feel I need it or not. It's been said that if you wait until you feel the need for fuel, it's too late. I have never attempted to put this to the test. If the experts tell me I need to fuel every 45 minutes, I am going to listen to them. I do not like gels. I prefer the shot blocks, but it's personal preference. I carry water with me. I may take Gatorade from an aid station if I feel I need it.

4leighbee wrote: »

with the gels - what is it improving? decreased cramping? increased energy?

The gels are giving you instant fuel to keep your glycogen stores supplied. As @MobyCarp alluded to earlier, they differ from plain old sugary candy in that they also contain electrolytes which will help keep you from dehydration, including cramping. If you are drinking electrolytes in you water, then you can get by with jelly beans or dried fruit if you do not like the gels or chews. At least, that is my understanding of it all.

jacksonpt

MobyCarp wrote: »

Physiologically, it doesn't matter whether you take gels or chews or real food. What matters is that you get some calories into your system that you can use and, more importantly, some electrolytes. The lack of electrolytes is why serious runners don't just do candy; the easy candy to eat on the run has plenty of sugar, but no sodium, potassium, or magnesium to speak of.

Get used to the idea of sodium being good. Yes, the sound track on all the health improvement stuff says to consume less sodium. That message is aimed at sedentary people with the typical American diet. Runners are far more likely to suffer from too little sodium than too much.

For hydration, carry water and/or electrolyte drink with you. Train with it. Learn to drink before you are thirsty, because if you wait till you're thirsty during a marathon you are likely to end up in the medical tent. Try different sources of fuel on your long runs to determine what you can tolerate and perhaps even what you like. Don't bother trying the stuff in the store; it tastes a whole lot better 5 miles into a run when your body needs it than it does when you're standing around before you start the run. I've been using Nuun for electrolyte drink. It's done well for me in half marathons and shorter races, but the evidence from marathons is that I may need something with a higher concentration of electrolytes.

I think you should try gels even though the concept doesn't appeal to you. If you can work with GU and Clif Shot gels, that's great because those are the brands most commonly handed out on race courses. (Buffalo gave out GUs; Boston gave out Clif Shot gels.) Late in a marathon, it can be a lot easier to use the gel the volunteer hands me rather than retrieve one from my pouch; but I need them in my pouch because there's no guarantee they will be handed out before I need them.

One of the major advantages of gels is that you can carry more of them than of bulkier fuels/foods. I used 7 gels to get through Buffalo, I think 6 to get through Boston (and should have used 7 or 8, in hindsight).

There are chews that are nutritionally equivalent to gels. Clif is more noted for Clif Shot Blocks than gels, and GU has GU Chomps. The knock on chews is that some runners find it hard to deal with them in a race environment due to how much chewing they need. Other runners do well with them. Chews are typically designed to be taken more frequently, e.g. three Clif Shot Blocks are roughly equal to one gel.

If there was one thing that really worked better than everything else, all the runners would be using it. Reality is that different solutions work for different people and the only way to find out what works for you is to try things. That's part of what long training runs are for.

Great post.

Most people will need both cals and electrolytes at some point during a long race/workout. How you get them doesn't really matter and is largely about personal preference. During runs, I much prefer gels vs anything I have to chew, but that's me.

I can't imagine doing long course work with straight water. Not because water is bad, but because it's an extra thing to carry/manage. Adding some sports drink or electrolyte tabs to the water means I no longer have to carry that stuff separately, and it's less I have to fuss with when my fine motor skills are deteriorating. But again, that's me.


Ultimately, this is something you can't really research all that much. If you have a target race in mind, see what they will have on course and experiment with that, otherwise just go into you local running shop and try a bunch of whatever they sell. Most stuff is pretty good, so I wouldn't worry about bogus or bad products.

jacksonpt

4leighbee wrote: »

with the gels - what is it improving? decreased cramping? increased energy?

It's not specific to gels, but...

Cals will help maintain energy.

Electrolytes will help keep mineral levels balanced, which should help prevent cramps (though, I'm yet to see any significant evidence that cramps are caused by electrolyte imbalance). Regardless, it's pretty easy insurance.

The other thing to consider is caffeine, which can improve absorption rates and *may* give a physical and/or mental boost.

The_Enginerd

MobyCarp wrote: »

Physiologically, it doesn't matter whether you take gels or chews or real food. What matters is that you get some calories into your system that you can use and, more importantly, some electrolytes. The lack of electrolytes is why serious runners don't just do candy; the easy candy to eat on the run has plenty of sugar, but no sodium, potassium, or magnesium to speak of.

Gels/chews usually have a mix of sugars meant to increase the total absorption rate of carbohydrates. Fructose and glucose/maltodextrin are absorbed via different paths, so they are both included in most energy gels. "Real" food doesn't take this into account, and some foods such as fruits have fiber which can slow absorption or may cause stomach upset for some in race conditions. Not sure how much of a performance difference is actually realized, if any, with gels or other nutrition designed with racing in mind, but there are differences from that standpoint nonetheless. What works for one person in terms of race nutrition seems very individualized.

Personally, I have an easier time with liquid nutrition such as Tailwind or Skratch under race conditions. Gels are more convenient, but unless I take them just a little bit at a time they upset my stomach. If I'm not racing, I could put down a burrito at Chipotle and then bang off a long run without much thought.

Stoshew71

A lot of good but different advice here. But unless you know how to apply it all and put it all together, it can be confusing and maybe even contradicting.


The beast of the marathon is that you will need to run as fast as you can but still run slow enough where fat is being the primary source for fuel. Your body can uses both carbs and fat for energy but in different proportions depending on intensity, how well your body is trained, and how far into the run you are. The goal is to force your body to use more fat for fuel and make the transition faster in order to preserve your carb stores. Your carb stores being glycogen in both the liver and your running muscles. You have a limited supply of carbs but a virtual endless supply of fat. The more intense you run and closer to an anaerobic intensity, the more you force your body to rely on carbs. So you have to train the body to be a more efficient fat burner by staying within an aerobic intensity.

So you have training and you have the actual race day. These are 2 different animals and different thought processes. On race day, you will have to supplement as much as possible what carbs you are burning by taking in carbs (gels, sports drink, sports beans, gummies, ect). (notice I said supplement- because it is impossible to replace everything you burn) There are different things out there and you are going to want to learn what works best for you, won't upset your stomach, what tastes the best, and can be carried along with you and eaten while on the run. Gummies may be the best thing for you, but if you are going to drop them all over the place as you are running or they make too much of a mess, then that is no good. Same thing with GI distress. Some things will work for your stomach and in certain quantities at a time. You will need to learn these things by experimenting during your training. You practice your race day fueling during your practice long runs. You consume too much sugar while running and you will get GI distress. Consume not enough and you will bonk. Some things require water as well (like gels). You suck a gel pack down and then immediately down a cup of water as you pass an aid station. Or, you may be able to get away with sucking a 1/4 pack of gel with no water every mile or so. But then you will be holding a half eaton gel pack as you are running. Are you comfortable with this? Try it and see.

Now, potentially contradictory to this is that during training, you will need to get your body used to not having a big supply of carbs. This will force your body to adapt and rely more on fat. In order to use fat for fuel, your body needs to learn to manufacture more of those harmones that release and use fat effieciently. The only way to get the body to do this is to force the body to do this. That means there will also be some long runs that are fasted. Some long runs where you deny yourself any carbs. And you need to keep the pace slow (aerobical intensity and not anaerobic). Long runs that last 90-150 minutes teach your body to use fat for fuel. if you are not used to running fasted or without taking in any fuel, then there is period of time where your body is adapting and you feel very sluggish during the run. You can take in water and electrolytes but during this period, but no carbs. Things like NUN provide electrolytes and water without carbs. This is known as "training low and racing high".

There is a diminished returned on training low. That means you can run a lot of long runs in a fasted state and you will eventually reap big returns, but continue training like this when your body adapts as much as it can, then you no longer get the most out of your workout. So the pearl of wisdom that is learned is that you do so many workouts in a fasted state then you do so many in a FED state. In a FED state, you can practice your race day fuel strategy.

The last thing you will eventually need to learn is to taper and carb load correctly. Carb loading is NOT pigging out on junk food the week before your race. There is actually a science to it. If you carb load correctly, your body can temporarily store more glycogen then it normally would and be fully hydrated. You won't gain fat weight, but you will gain some water weight which will be shredded during the race to cool you down. That is if you do everything correctly. Do it wrong and you won't increase carb stores enough and may even gain weight the wrong way.

here are some sources:

The science of bonking:
http://runnersconnect.net/running-training-articles/cience-of-bonking-and-glycogen-depletion

How To Tap Into Fat For Fuel

http://triathlon.competitor.com/2014/06/nutrition/inside-triathlon-magazine-fat-burning-machine_31034#sSfKucKImFZIxZIu.99

Fasted Running / Training Low and Racing High

http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/lab-report-fuel-management?page=single
http://www.runnersworld.com/running-tips/running-on-e?page=single

Marathon Long Runs on an Empty Stomach or Fully Fueled

http://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/marathon-long-runs-on-an-empty-stomach-or-fully-fueled/

4leighbee

Printing. Thanks to all of you!