Moving On (Maybe)

BikerGirlElaine

Well, I think it's time for me to 'graduate'. I took three 1/2 weeks off for overtraining in late May/early June. Came back, deloaded a lot, but I'm already wiped out and I haven't even gotten back to my previous PR's yet. I've been doing an 80% day on my squats but that doesn't seem to be enough of a break.

I think I am going to move to 5/3/1. Because... I'm old, and I have fibromyalgia. I can work hard for 45 minutes - an hour but that's about it. Even a shake to restore my blood sugar doesn't bring me enough energy to keep going longer.

And I don't need to lift hyooge weights to be impressed with myself. Every day that I show up is a gift, frankly. And when I look at Texas I feel tired already reading it.

So that's my story unless someone wants to talk me out of it. :bigsmile:

The downside is that my weights are not terribly high, especially on bench and OHP, and that's disappointing, I think it means that they won't ever *get* high LOL.

I'm going to reread 5/3/1 and see what I can come up with. I'm also going to go to the Starting Strength forum and see if there are any other tweaks that I can try.

suelegal

I can't decide what to do next. Just finishing NROL4W and always had thought I'd move to SL. And then I discovered 5-3-1. I'm old too, and I don't lift really heavy weights and like you I struggle with OHP and chest presses of all kinds. I keep trying though.

Keep in touch with me will you? Maybe we can buddy up. I have 6 more NROL Stage 7 workouts and I'm done.

I too want to be talked into or out of SL.

taunto

I personally am very uneducated about lifting etc but I did had a conversation a few weeks back that you might wish to read

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1017253-moving-on-from-stronglifts-also-5-3-1

tameko2

I would drop squats from one day, or move to Texas or Madcow, before you just jump ship to 5/3/1. (basically add SOME periodization or reduce squats rather than just knocking off altogether).

I would also examine other elements like nutrition first.

DaniH826

Nia Shanks is also an option.

When I'm done with my current 3x5 cycle (however long that one lasts ... possibly indefinitely and/or until I get bored, whichever happens first), I'm seriously considering Beautiful Badass or another one of her multi-variety lifting workouts.

Ditto on the nutrition. Maybe eat at maintenance for a couple weeks.

Are you still doing 5x5? Or 3x5?

I highly doubt my weights will ever get actually "high.' But hey, everything above zero is massive improvement for me and I've added a crapton of functional strength to my life. No complaints here.

I took about a month off from heavy squatting and it was awesome. Sometimes you just need a break. I'm back at it now and the dread is gone. Cause a person can only squat so much. Seriously.

tameko2

Are you still doing 5x5? Or 3x5?

oh yeah that's a good question.

Steps 1 and 2 are switch to 3x5 and check nutrition.

faeriewings1

I moved to Nia Shanks (S) hero program after SL, I dont think my back could continue to cope with squatting 3 x a week (a disc likes to give me ****) Im really enjoying the change.

bumblebums

SL and Starting Strength are programs that are designed to work as long as you are in the noob gains stage. I actually passed that a while ago, and so I modified the program so that I do not do any lifts in sets across, and I do not increase my weights more than 5 lb a week anymore, either. You have to listen to your body and not do things that are counterproductive to your motivation and adherence. Sounds to me like you're doing pretty good on both counts.

kitkat4141

The most important thing is you are lifting heavy and doing what your body allows. That's it. If it doesn't conform to the program so be it.

I found that following StrongLifts was too much for me because of other activities I do (personal training and cycling). Had to modify the program to just twice a week and pretty much increased weights by only 5# every few weeks. Have found that my body needs TIME and will incur injury if rushed.

Good luck on the program of your choice and can't wait to hear how you like it.

BikerGirlElaine

Thanks everyone! I love this group because I get knowledgeable, caring answers here. Plus half of you are on my FL and the other half ought to be :grouphug:

You all made valid points, let me see if I can address each of them.

I've had several weeks of maintenance eating, or only a very small deficit, since about the end of May -- I've lost 2 pounds in that time. I get loads of protein and carbs, and I'm at a 20% cut from my observed TDEE of 2600. I actually struggle to get enough fat, and I'm trying to work on that this week. My diet is lots of lean proteins, veggies, complex carbs, and some fruit. Not a lot of processed stuff at all. When I am 'bad' it's because I slathered butter all over something or had a big ol' bacon cheeseburger or some yummy form of fried potatoes :happy:

I'm really not open to changing the 20% cut. I am 5' 4" and weigh 193, the calculators have me at 34%-44% body fat. Losing body fat is still my most important priority. According to what I've read, I'm at the top end of the range where a 20% cut is appropriate. Also, if I am truly hungry I go over my target. :laugh:

I dropped to 3X5 long ago.

Specifically, deadlifts are going well. Squats are very hard even though I am below my previous PR. And bench and OHP don't appear to be wiping me out. I think I can continue to progess linearly with those two for a while. Squats, I really need to do something. I can deadlift once a week and proooobably progress linearly for a while longer with it.

I added in power cleans and I am a total noob with those but love them. I think I can progress linearly with them for several months if I keep the progression very micro.

I am already microloading... 1/2 - 1 pound each time on OHP, 1 - 2 pounds on Bench. 5 pounds on DL but I think that will soon have to be dialed back. I'd been doing 5 pounds on squats because I was way, way deloaded from where I was in May, but next time will only try to increase 2 1/2 pounds.

I have been doing the middle day of squats at 80% for a couple of weeks. i.e. Monday 100 Wednesday 80 Friday 105, Monday 110 Wednesday 85 Friday 115... Tameko, you suggested dropping squats completely on that middle day and I could try that. Or maybe just try more periodization for squats and keep the rest linear for a bit?

And now I am going to read the thread that you linked, Taunto, thanks, all

And Sue -- I personally think that Stronglifts is not the way to go since you've been lifting and gaining strength for a while. Have you looked at Nia Shank's programs yet?

BikerGirlElaine

I think I should re-iterate that the main thing that is bothering me is that I am wiped out. I leave the gym wiped out, I'm wiped out that evening, the next day, and on the next lifting day I'm better but still not fully recovered. It's the not recovering that is an issue.

DaniH826

Any advice coming your way would really depend on your training goals.

How seriously interested are you in making further strength gains versus allowing things to go to a maintenance level/range and maybe switching to a more endurance-based barbell workout?

Maybe your body is deciding that it's strong enough, based on your current intake levels, and it could be time for you to switch things up because you've basically tapped yourself out in that regard.

That means you could easily switch to barbell training twice a week in order to maintain gains made so far, and spend your other days on other things. Or drop the squats to once or twice a week to maintain there or stay at your current deload levels, and focus on the other lifts if you're still able (and desiring) to increase the weights on those.

What do you actually want to accomplish?

tameko2

I think I should re-iterate that the main thing that is bothering me is that I am wiped out. I leave the gym wiped out, I'm wiped out that evening, the next day, and on the next lifting day I'm better but still not fully recovered. It's the not recovering that is an issue.

No sleep issues right? Food it seems like you've got handled (yes, fat is important, but I assume you're getting a reasonable minimum).

Take a look at Madcow/Texas but for this week, I'd do your 1 squat day at 80%, 1 squat day at 3x3 instead of 3x5, and 1 day at 5x5, and don't increase day to day.

It seems like you're overall happy with the other lifts, switching to wendler will slam your forward progress down a bit, so Madcow or Texas would be a much better choice to jump to.

BikerGirlElaine

1. First is aesthetics. I want to keep all my muscle while I lose fat. I'd been lifting before I started SL, and I think I have good muscle mass underneath the fat (I think the body fat % calculators may be full of s---), so probably just losing the fat will get me where I want to be looks-wise. If not, well, I'll think about that when I get there.

2. Also, I want to keep being as pain free, mobile, functional and strong as possible. Weighted squats have almost cured my knee pain and I feel better this year than I had in the last nine years. But feeling wiped out all the time is actually a negative to my overall quality of life, so I dont have a lot of tolerance for it.

3. Having a training routine that's fun is very important. I don't tend to keep things in my life that I don't enjoy.

4. Increasing my absolute strength, just 'cause it's fun, would be next.

I think that's it. Maybe learning to run would be cool, I don't know. That would just be because I have *never* been a runner. Maybe learning to do Olympic lifts, because I really the power cleans. But I think those things fall under 3.

BikerGirlElaine

I think I should re-iterate that the main thing that is bothering me is that I am wiped out. I leave the gym wiped out, I'm wiped out that evening, the next day, and on the next lifting day I'm better but still not fully recovered. It's the not recovering that is an issue.

No sleep issues right? Food it seems like you've got handled (yes, fat is important, but I assume you're getting a reasonable minimum).

Take a look at Madcow/Texas but for this week, I'd do your 1 squat day at 80%, 1 squat day at 3x3 instead of 3x5, and 1 day at 5x5, and don't increase day to day.

It seems like you're overall happy with the other lifts, switching to wendler will slam your forward progress down a bit, so Madcow or Texas would be a much better choice to jump to.

OK, Definitely sounds like it's worth a try... except that I'm not doing 5 sets at all right now, so...how about 3X5 @ 80%, 3x3 @ 100%, and 3x5 @100% ??

And, yeah, sleep. Sleep is always a big focus for me, since sleeplessness and FM walk hand in hand. My sleep was disrupted for several weeks but in the last week it's been back to where it was in February-May when things were going so well.

tameko2

I think I should re-iterate that the main thing that is bothering me is that I am wiped out. I leave the gym wiped out, I'm wiped out that evening, the next day, and on the next lifting day I'm better but still not fully recovered. It's the not recovering that is an issue.

No sleep issues right? Food it seems like you've got handled (yes, fat is important, but I assume you're getting a reasonable minimum).

Take a look at Madcow/Texas but for this week, I'd do your 1 squat day at 80%, 1 squat day at 3x3 instead of 3x5, and 1 day at 5x5, and don't increase day to day.

It seems like you're overall happy with the other lifts, switching to wendler will slam your forward progress down a bit, so Madcow or Texas would be a much better choice to jump to.

OK, Definitely sounds like it's worth a try... except that I'm not doing 5 sets at all right now, so...how about 3X5 @ 80%, 3x3 @ 100%, and 3x5 @100% ??

And, yeah, sleep. Sleep is always a big focus for me, since sleeplessness and FM walk hand in hand. My sleep was disrupted for several weeks but in the last week it's been back to where it was in February-May when things were going so well.

Whoops, yeah that's what I meant.

CycleFlow

The most important thing is you are lifting heavy and doing what your body allows. That's it. If it doesn't conform to the program so be it.

I found that following StrongLifts was too much for me because of other activities I do (personal training and cycling). Had to modify the program to just twice a week and pretty much increased weights by only 5# every few weeks. Have found that my body needs TIME and will incur injury if rushed.

Good luck on the program of your choice and can't wait to hear how you like it.

Wow, I you have explained my issue exactly. (I cycle alot also) I found 3x a week squats especially as I approached 200lbs was killing me.... took days on end for my legs to recover and was injuring myself more than I was gaining.

Took a week off and totally killed my work out - which finally made me realize the same - my body needs rest!!

Nice to know someone is in the same situation!!! Have never met anyone else with the same issue!
I have the tightest hip flexors /psoas known to man.. LMAO.

cleotherio

I switched to 5/3/1 this week. I think I've made good progress doing 4 months of Stronglifts. I've lifted weights on and off my whole adult life, and this is definitely the strongest I've been--and the only time I've followed a program. However, even though I love lifting, I love being strong and getting stronger, I was starting to dread the SL routine. I was pretty much stalled on everything. I deloaded a couple times, did 3x5 for a few weeks, tried progressions, but it wasn't helping me progress, and like I said, I was just getting tired of the drill. No sleeping issues at all, and I eat about 1800 a day with 115-125 protein and I'm always a little over on fat.

I'm OK with progressing more slowly, at least for now. I want to maintain the muscle that I have and get a little stronger over time. I still have competing in the back of my mind. If that's something I want to commit to, I'll revisit the training plan. Right now I just want a change that I'll be able to stick with for a while.

bumblebums

The most important thing is you are lifting heavy and doing what your body allows. That's it. If it doesn't conform to the program so be it.

I found that following StrongLifts was too much for me because of other activities I do (personal training and cycling). Had to modify the program to just twice a week and pretty much increased weights by only 5# every few weeks. Have found that my body needs TIME and will incur injury if rushed.

Good luck on the program of your choice and can't wait to hear how you like it.

Wow, I you have explained my issue exactly. (I cycle alot also) I found 3x a week squats especially as I approached 200lbs was killing me.... took days on end for my legs to recover and was injuring myself more than I was gaining.

Took a week off and totally killed my work out - which finally made me realize the same - my body needs rest!!

Nice to know someone is in the same situation!!! Have never met anyone else with the same issue!
I have the tightest hip flexors /psoas known to man.. LMAO.

My six-times-a-week gym visits came to a prompt end when I started lifting more seriously. Like you, I wasn't recovering enough between lifting days, and the wake-up call came when my back pain (a lifelong friend) and bum knee acted up in the same week. I had to deload, and then had enough sense to stop doing my so-called "active recovery" stints at the gym on the days between lifting.

There is a good reason why most of these starter programs recommend a MWF schedule with four rest days a week--if you work with the heaviest weights you can, as you are supposed to, you actually need all that rest. When the weights get really heavy, people don't even do certain lifts more than once a week or once every 10 days or so. It's a serious workout; no wonder lifters eat so damn much

kitkat4141

The most important thing is you are lifting heavy and doing what your body allows. That's it. If it doesn't conform to the program so be it.

I found that following StrongLifts was too much for me because of other activities I do (personal training and cycling). Had to modify the program to just twice a week and pretty much increased weights by only 5# every few weeks. Have found that my body needs TIME and will incur injury if rushed.

Good luck on the program of your choice and can't wait to hear how you like it.

Wow, I you have explained my issue exactly. (I cycle alot also) I found 3x a week squats especially as I approached 200lbs was killing me.... took days on end for my legs to recover and was injuring myself more than I was gaining.

Took a week off and totally killed my work out - which finally made me realize the same - my body needs rest!!

Nice to know someone is in the same situation!!! Have never met anyone else with the same issue!
I have the tightest hip flexors /psoas known to man.. LMAO.

I thought I was the Queen of Hip Flexor tightness, LOL. Just bought a foam roller for post-cycling torture.

Squats always feel wonderful to my hips and I have no problem doing them three times a week. My biggest issue is the fatigue the OP described. I just can't spin or cycle outdoors as effectively if I lift heavy 3 times a week. Simply do not have the energy. Have been examining my diet and have come to the conclusion the nutritional requirements are somewhat at odds between the two activities. Strength training requires lots of protein, cycling requires lots of carbohydrates. Currently searching for a balance so I can enjoy both and achieve my goals.

DaniH826

I thought I was the Queen of Hip Flexor tightness, LOL. Just bought a foam roller for post-cycling torture.

Squats always feel wonderful to my hips and I have no problem doing them three times a week. My biggest issue is the fatigue the OP described. I just can't spin or cycle outdoors as effectively if I lift heavy 3 times a week. Simply do not have the energy. Have been examining my diet and have come to the conclusion the nutritional requirements are somewhat at odds between the two activities. Strength training requires lots of protein, cycling requires lots of carbohydrates. Currently searching for a balance so I can enjoy both and achieve my goals.

You may or may not be interested in this (mostly because it talks about cycling :bigsmile: ):
http://www.schwarzenegger.com/fitness/post/best-damn-cardio-humanly-possible-in-15-minutes

kitkat4141

I thought I was the Queen of Hip Flexor tightness, LOL. Just bought a foam roller for post-cycling torture.

Squats always feel wonderful to my hips and I have no problem doing them three times a week. My biggest issue is the fatigue the OP described. I just can't spin or cycle outdoors as effectively if I lift heavy 3 times a week. Simply do not have the energy. Have been examining my diet and have come to the conclusion the nutritional requirements are somewhat at odds between the two activities. Strength training requires lots of protein, cycling requires lots of carbohydrates. Currently searching for a balance so I can enjoy both and achieve my goals.

You may or may not be interested in this (mostly because it talks about cycling :bigsmile: ):
http://www.schwarzenegger.com/fitness/post/best-damn-cardio-humanly-possible-in-15-minutes

Thanks for the link. Going to read it now.

xidia

Have been examining my diet and have come to the conclusion the nutritional requirements are somewhat at odds between the two activities. Strength training requires lots of protein, cycling requires lots of carbohydrates. Currently searching for a balance so I can enjoy both and achieve my goals.

Strength training requires protein to build muscle, but that muscle still needs carbs to function. I lift better when I've had 150g+ carbs per day compared to 100g ish, and if I've done cardio or a lot of walking around it's not unusual for me to hit 200g+ carbs.

Protein is fairly consistently around 90-110g per day for me - any more and my digestive system gets "unhappy". You actually can't make use of much more protein than 1g/lb LBM in muscle-building terms, so while it's fine to eat more if you want to, it won't do you any more good in terms of strength, at least as I understand it.

kitkat4141

Have been examining my diet and have come to the conclusion the nutritional requirements are somewhat at odds between the two activities. Strength training requires lots of protein, cycling requires lots of carbohydrates. Currently searching for a balance so I can enjoy both and achieve my goals.

Strength training requires protein to build muscle, but that muscle still needs carbs to function. I lift better when I've had 150g+ carbs per day compared to 100g ish, and if I've done cardio or a lot of walking around it's not unusual for me to hit 200g+ carbs.

Protein is fairly consistently around 90-110g per day for me - any more and my digestive system gets "unhappy". You actually can't make use of much more protein than 1g/lb LBM in muscle-building terms, so while it's fine to eat more if you want to, it won't do you any more good in terms of strength, at least as I understand it.

My protein goal is 85-100 grams. Carbohydrates are set at 190 grams which is high for me. I'm one of those who don't do as well on carbs and tend to bloat. I'm doing a cycling tour later this month and plan to return to a lower carb regimen once it's over.

xidia

Have been examining my diet and have come to the conclusion the nutritional requirements are somewhat at odds between the two activities. Strength training requires lots of protein, cycling requires lots of carbohydrates. Currently searching for a balance so I can enjoy both and achieve my goals.

Strength training requires protein to build muscle, but that muscle still needs carbs to function. I lift better when I've had 150g+ carbs per day compared to 100g ish, and if I've done cardio or a lot of walking around it's not unusual for me to hit 200g+ carbs.

Protein is fairly consistently around 90-110g per day for me - any more and my digestive system gets "unhappy". You actually can't make use of much more protein than 1g/lb LBM in muscle-building terms, so while it's fine to eat more if you want to, it won't do you any more good in terms of strength, at least as I understand it.

My protein goal is 85-100 grams. Carbohydrates are set at 190 grams which is high for me. I'm one of those who don't do as well on carbs and tend to bloat. I'm doing a cycling tour later this month and plan to return to a lower carb regimen once it's over.

Fair enough. The best guide is how you're feeling day to day, after all.

Will_Thrust_For_Candy

I have a couple of ideas regarding this.....kind of reiterating what has already been said admittedly.

If you like the SL routine, then Madcow is an excellent option. I seriously considered moving to Madcow simply because I love the spreadsheet (I'm really not a numbers person and loved that it showed me exactly what weight to do for each workout) I ended up deciding against Madcow because I was just tired of the SL routine. I ran that program for 6 months (2 cycles) and I was over it. I ended up buying Nia Shanks Beautiful Badass and am just wrapping up week 4 on the 6-3-9-3 program and I have to say that I LOVE IT. The workouts are quick and effective and challenging in new ways.

Oh and I don't squat every workout and I love not squatting every workout. Like LOVE LOVE LOVE it.