Hating Sansa

rml_16

A while ago, I read a blog that mentioned people really hate Sansa. At the time, I was only part-way through book one and season 2, but I couldn't think of a reason to dislike her as a character, so I asked a friend who has read all the books and seen all three seasons.

She told me that people don't like Sansa for two reasons:

1. Sansa continues to be enthralled by the idea of gallant knights and princes, etc., even after Joffrey turns out to be a toad and kind of implied that in the books, Sansa continues being in love with him even after he kills Ned Stark.

2. Because Sansa never shows concern for Aya.

Well, now I'm halfway through book 2 and Sansa twice has thought about Arya, and assumed Arya got out of King's Landing (she did) and is back safe at Winterfell. Considering that Sansa is 11 when the series begins, this seems like a normal assumption she would have, especially since she would have no idea what kind of dangers Arya would be facing because Sansa has led a sheltered like. She also realizes that they probably lied to her about Jeyne Poole and that Jeyne very well might not be in a good place after all. And she's genuinely concerned and saddened about that.

And she most certainly realizes Joffrey is a creep, as well as several of his knights immediately when he had Ned killed. She hates Joffrey. Yes, she still thinks about the stories she's heard about gallantry, but her own father and brothers and the people surrounding her growing up would have shown her some of them are that way, plus The Hound in his way is very kind to her.

And, again, she's 11 years old.

So, someone PLEASE give me a reason to not like Sansa! She isn't my favorite character, but I don't dislike her and see no reason to. (Spoilers are OK. I spoil this kind of thing for myself all the time.)

LePetitCochon

I'm all caught up on the TV series and halfway through the second book. I still don't like her. I feel bad for her, yes, but she's still a snotrag brat of a spoiled girl who is everything you mentioned.

rml_16

I'm all caught up on the TV series and halfway through the second book. I still don't like her. I feel bad for her, yes, but she's still a snotrag brat of a spoiled girl who is everything you mentioned.

I thought she was a snotrag when everything was going well, but now she's kind of trying to survive alone in a den of vipers. I kind of admire her for her strength and trying to feel her way through it all.

silver_arrow3

I think the fact that she's naive is really the biggest reason I could think to dislike her. It's not her fault at all... She grew up sheltered and protected from all of the politics and truly terrifying situations she keeps getting thrown into at King's Landing. The first book/season, I do kind of want to slap her a few times. Like taking Joffrey's side over Arya's when Nymeria bites him.

I need to reread the books anyway, so maybe I can give better insight once I do.

rml_16

I think the fact that she's naive is really the biggest reason I could think to dislike her. It's not her fault at all... She grew up sheltered and protected from all of the politics and truly terrifying situations she keeps getting thrown into at King's Landing. The first book/season, I do kind of want to slap her a few times. Like taking Joffrey's side over Arya's when Nymeria bites him.

I need to reread the books anyway, so maybe I can give better insight once I do.

Those are my thoughts, as well.

toutmonpossible

I only know the character from the series, not the books, but I find her less interesting because she is quite conventional in a universe in which almost all the other women characters are remarkably clever and pretty independent. Even if they're locked into conventional roles (queen, princess, courtesan/sex-slave), they try to live their lives with some agency; they don't just accept their fate. Sansa just plays along, although the penny seems to be dropping ever so slowly.

I know that I should admire the author's choice to include her character because she is very realistic and understandable. But in real life I hate women who seem to be permanent Sansas, playing their little girl games, refusing to drop their little girl delusions. Not surprisingly, I find every female character other than Sansa in GoT so much more interesting.

I imagine Sansa will develop. But I do understand the current animosity. She's irritating. By the end of Season 3, she must be at least 15.

toutmonpossible

The first book/season, I do kind of want to slap her a few times. Like taking Joffrey's side over Arya's when Nymeria bites him.

I can't believe I'm talking about a fantasy series like this, but yes, that was a low point, even though I understood that she was afraid for her life. Sansa was shocked when her own direwolf, Lady, was killed in Nymeria's place. (Again, can't believe I have opinions about this. :-) )

rml_16

The first book/season, I do kind of want to slap her a few times. Like taking Joffrey's side over Arya's when Nymeria bites him.

I can't believe I'm talking about a fantasy series like this, but yes, that was a low point, even though I understood that she was afraid for her life. Sansa was shocked when her own direwolf, Lady, was killed in Nymeria's place. (Again, can't believe I have opinions about this. :-) )

Why are you shocked to have opinions on this? Did you never sit through a literature class in school? That's what makes reading and watching movies/television/plays fun and interesting.

toutmonpossible

The first book/season, I do kind of want to slap her a few times. Like taking Joffrey's side over Arya's when Nymeria bites him.

I can't believe I'm talking about a fantasy series like this, but yes, that was a low point, even though I understood that she was afraid for her life. Sansa was shocked when her own direwolf, Lady, was killed in Nymeria's place. (Again, can't believe I have opinions about this. :-) )

Why are you shocked to have opinions on this? Did you never sit through a literature class in school? That's what makes reading and watching movies/television/plays fun and interesting.

I was a Literature major. I read much more high-brow and complex works. Game of Thrones is fun, but it's still popular entertainment.

rml_16

The first book/season, I do kind of want to slap her a few times. Like taking Joffrey's side over Arya's when Nymeria bites him.

I can't believe I'm talking about a fantasy series like this, but yes, that was a low point, even though I understood that she was afraid for her life. Sansa was shocked when her own direwolf, Lady, was killed in Nymeria's place. (Again, can't believe I have opinions about this. :-) )

Why are you shocked to have opinions on this? Did you never sit through a literature class in school? That's what makes reading and watching movies/television/plays fun and interesting.

I was a Literature major. I read much more high-brow and complex works. Game of Thrones is fun, but it's still popular entertainment.

So was I. And I'm not a literature snob. This is some damned good work, actually.

wanderlustlover

I have to agree with a lot of this. I have an BA and MA in English Literature & Language, and I've still been reading and fanning these books since I was 13 and found the first one. I definitely don't find any shame or embarrassment in have a whole lot of feelings about the books/stories/shows/the differences between them.

I don't think I've ever hated Sansa. She's not my favorite character, but I do find her a compelling character. Another facet of the amazing group of women George RR Martin has displayed with his wide range of characters and characters types (both as compared to all her siblings, and as compared to ).

From her very naive simple expected wants at the beginning, to the fact she's thrust into five or six different situations where her only option seriously is StayAliveThoughShuttingUp. I deeply what to know what is going to happen to her in her current circumstances (leading from the last book to the next one, that'll come out in a another few years).



Also of important note -- Have a timeline: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Timeline

The first *FIVE* novels takes place in less-than-to-about three years. The show is only through half of that. It very much so is not a year per season or per book. Sansa is still eleven, maybe only just turned twelve in the show.

toutmonpossible

Sansa is still eleven, maybe only just turned twelve in the show.

She looks much older in the show at the end of Season 3. The actress who plays her is 17, although in her off-screen photos she looks older to me.

rml_16

Sansa is still eleven, maybe only just turned twelve in the show.

She looks much older in the show at the end of Season 3. The actress who plays her is 17, although in her off-screen photos she looks older to me.

She's 13 when the first season starts. Joffrey is much older than in the books, too. Tyrion mentions he's 17 in season 2.

I have to agree with a lot of this. I have an BA and MA in English Literature & Language, and I've still been reading and fanning these books since I was 13 and found the first one. I definitely don't find any shame or embarrassment in have a whole lot of feelings about the books/stories/shows/the differences between them.

If being popular in its time means a book isn't good enough to read and enjoy, then we shouldn't ever bother with Shakespeare.

wanderlustlover

Which is a lot of the problems with anything related to the Stark kids who aren't Robb and Jon from book-to-movie.

They are NOT supposed to be older. Half of all the problems caused by (or suffered by) Sansa, Arya, Bran Rickon (Joffery, Margery, Tomen, Myrcella, Theon, Dany, etc on and on) is that they were all very much incredibly still too young children, or derivations on the notion therein.

Having to deal with death, power, escape, torture, marriage, rule and crazy adults/kings/killers, right along side all the actual adults. (And you were even supposed to view Jon & Robb's first love affairs both as something teens/barely into manhood actions that were foolish and problematic all over the board, no matter how strongly they loved.)

I would agree it moves the story out of its context to change the ages of any of the kids who's ages actually effect the storyline. It's definitely one of the problems I had with them bringing it to the screen. It changes things for all the people I listed above.

wanderlustlover

Oh, yes!

Definitely on Shakespeare.

rml_16

Even though they're supposed to be older on the show, I'm trying to ignore that and imagine them the ages they are in the books. Robb and Jon are both 14 when the books start. It's so sad! lol

I'm really enjoying watching and reading together and getting a very full picture of some things. But I don't have HBO so now I have to wait until Netflix gets the season 3 DVDs and then fight over them with everyone else trying to watch. Ugh. I finished season 2 last night. What an ending!

toutmonpossible

I have to agree with a lot of this. I have an BA and MA in English Literature & Language, and I've still been reading and fanning these books since I was 13 and found the first one. I definitely don't find any shame or embarrassment in have a whole lot of feelings about the books/stories/shows/the differences between them.

I think the self-mockery in my tone was missed, but yes, I still distinguish between highly competent fantasy novels and serious literature.

rml_16

I have to agree with a lot of this. I have an BA and MA in English Literature & Language, and I've still been reading and fanning these books since I was 13 and found the first one. I definitely don't find any shame or embarrassment in have a whole lot of feelings about the books/stories/shows/the differences between them.

I think the self-mockery in my tone was missed, but yes, I still distinguish between highly competent fantasy novels and serious literature.

So, please, tell me why House of the Seven Gables is "serious literature" and GOT isn't.

Or why Much Ado About Nothing is serious literature and GOT isn't.

Or anything by F. Scott or Hemingway or Anna Karenina? Or Les Miserables? What makes them "serious literature" and this isn't?

iceqieen

On the age thing:

Martin has said he would have had them a bit older if he knew that the story would move so fast, and its easier to get the general viewers to accept all the things that they do and are involved in at the ages they are portrayed rather than written.

Can you really imagine a 15 year old boy giving commands to seasoned soldiers? :laugh: Historically it did happen, but for modern day viewers it would seem unbelievable.

On Sansa: I dislike her because she is such a whiny little girl aaaaaaaall the time.. I also dislike book-Catelyn for the same reason. Like mother like daughter. I dislike book-Danearis because she's too naive. Still.. it does show what a good writer Martin is since he can captivate the whiny-essence of a typical "girly girl" and then go on to badass Arya or one of the Sand snakes to show a different character.

LorinaLynn

I'm late to the game. Just finished book one yesterday, started book two last night, halfway through season one.

I don't think Sansa is supposed to be well-liked. She's supposed to be dreamy-eyed, prissy and self-absorbed. She's a character that would have been boring, but she gets thrown in a beyond-crappy situation, and that's when things get interesting.

I relate to Arya, though. I spent my childhood tagging along after my brothers, wearing my brothers' hand-me-downs, riding dirt bikes and catching snakes... and tucking my hair up into my baseball cap because I had more fun playing with boys when they treated me like one of them.

TheHistoryLady

When I first started reading the series I hated Sansa as I found her very self centred and just annoying but having read further on I realise that's how we're supposed to feel about her. In some ways she's the one who changes the most out of the Stark kids and her story arc is quite interesting.
I've just started Feast for crows and am now routing for Sansa and hoping she doesnt get killed off at some point.

rml_16

When I first started reading the series I hated Sansa as I found her very self centred and just annoying but having read further on I realise that's how we're supposed to feel about her. In some ways she's the one who changes the most out of the Stark kids and her story arc is quite interesting.
I've just started Feast for crows and am now routing for Sansa and hoping she doesnt get killed off at some point.

See, I don't think we were supposed to hate her or even dislike her. I think Martin wrote an accurate 11-year-old, sheltered, dreamy girl who goes through hell and has to grow up fast for self-preservation.

I've read all the books and watched all three seasons. I don't see that she's not still the same person. She just gets dosed with harsh reality.

Banannafish512

Depending on how far you are in the books, it ends up that Sansa is constantly in the hands of people who want to abuse her or threaten to abuse her. She has no agency by herself because her family is gone and she is stuck dealing with people who treat her as a pawn.

Despite being beaten, threatened to the point of rape and death, she still manages to be a kind person (although mercifully, a little less naive). She saves someone's life who was nothing to her (don't wanna spoil), comforts others during the siege of KIng's Landing when Cersei kinda abandons ship.

Despite facing such challenging odds, she still manages to keep the honorable values that Ned instilled in her. While being kind is certainly not as "badass" as killing people openly, staying true to yourself after facing incredible abuse is so notable. imagine if Arya were in Sansa's place. Arya would die, quickly and painfully, if she was under Cersei's thumb because she has no sense of how to survive without a sword.

iceqieen

Depending on how far you are in the books, it ends up that Sansa is constantly in the hands of people who want to abuse her or threaten to abuse her. She has no agency by herself because her family is gone and she is stuck dealing with people who treat her as a pawn.

Despite being beaten, threatened to the point of rape and death, she still manages to be a kind person (although mercifully, a little less naive). She saves someone's life who was nothing to her (don't wanna spoil), comforts others during the siege of KIng's Landing when Cersei kinda abandons ship.

Despite facing such challenging odds, she still manages to keep the honorable values that Ned instilled in her. While being kind is certainly not as "badass" as killing people openly, staying true to yourself after facing incredible abuse is so notable. imagine if Arya were in Sansa's place. Arya would die, quickly and painfully, if she was under Cersei's thumb because she has no sense of how to survive without a sword.

That's actually a pretty good point. She is making the best out of the situation with what she has. I still feel she is annoying to read as a PoV charachter but maybe that will change with time, last I read a chapter from her PoV she was certainly getting better at "the game".

rml_16

Depending on how far you are in the books, it ends up that Sansa is constantly in the hands of people who want to abuse her or threaten to abuse her. She has no agency by herself because her family is gone and she is stuck dealing with people who treat her as a pawn.

Despite being beaten, threatened to the point of rape and death, she still manages to be a kind person (although mercifully, a little less naive). She saves someone's life who was nothing to her (don't wanna spoil), comforts others during the siege of KIng's Landing when Cersei kinda abandons ship.

Despite facing such challenging odds, she still manages to keep the honorable values that Ned instilled in her. While being kind is certainly not as "badass" as killing people openly, staying true to yourself after facing incredible abuse is so notable. imagine if Arya were in Sansa's place. Arya would die, quickly and painfully, if she was under Cersei's thumb because she has no sense of how to survive without a sword.

I'm all caught up now -- books and show. There was no point that I felt any kind of animosity toward her. I agree with everything you said.

I still don't get the anti-Sansa thing. lol