Row - which sort?
subakwa
Posts: 347 Member
A few weeks into SL and I have been watching Mehdi's videos for form, but scrolling through the threads here and in the main fitness forum I see reference to bent over rows in place of the Pendlay row it seems SL uses?
Discussions seem to indicate the debt over as better for all over back strength - is that why some swap out?
I was idly wondering, given as it is early days if I should switch or stay "pure" to SL as written?
Discussions seem to indicate the debt over as better for all over back strength - is that why some swap out?
I was idly wondering, given as it is early days if I should switch or stay "pure" to SL as written?
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i think pendlay can feel awkward to do, and/or the position can be stressy for some people's hamstrings or lower back.
with that said, i've only done non-pendlay a couple of times so i'm no use at telling you which one is better for what. when my lower back worries me i get on the cable machines and do seated upright. i reckon that's pendlay rotated by 90 degrees
and i guess my attitude is: if pendlay ain't broken for you, don't bother finding a fix till it is.
** i also tried seal rows once. they're aka something like supported horizontal rows - you do them lying on a bench, with the bench elevated enough for your arms to be straight when the bar's on the ground. it was AMAZING to me how easy rows are when you take out all the balance and positioning work for the other muscles and you're just using your upper back. but they're a [expletives deleted] pain to set up, they possibly make you feel even sillier than the pendlay rows do. and they may not even be allowed in public gyms because at the top of the movement you're banging the bar into the underside of the bench.
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Pendlay do feel awkward. I seem to have no muscle memory for it, even with no weight. I am thinking there might be shoulder mobility problems impacting it. I guess I was wondering if a lower pull (to abdomen on a bent over) might be more repeatable / easier to learn.
I think that you are right with leaving it a while though. As I was posting I was torn - I am pretty compliant to systems so the thought of changing was uncomfortable from that perspective.1 -
i swear, i can't 'feel' rows at all. and nothing wakes up my lats. i mean, i have them, and it's pretty clear that i'm using them. but they're about the only muscle i've got that i can use without getting any sensory feedback from them.
my lifting club thinks i'm hilarious. i've been having some trouble with bench, so we had this fiasco a few weeks ago where i'm flat on my back with 80 pounds in lockout position and they're all gathered round trying to help. yelling 'shelf! lats! lats! turn on the lats!' while i'm trying to start that first rep.
and me yelling back: "i can't feckin' FEEL my lats!"1 -
I can't really feel my lats either. I do both pendlay and bent over row but don't do pendlay much because it's a hassle to set up the plates to get the bar at a better height since I can't do 135 with good form yet. I really should do it more often if I want to improve but eh.1
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Pendlay do feel awkward. I seem to have no muscle memory for it, even with no weight. I am thinking there might be shoulder mobility problems impacting it. I guess I was wondering if a lower pull (to abdomen on a bent over) might be more repeatable / easier to learn.
on this practical aspect: i can only speak about my own shoulder mobility stuff, and yours might be of a different kind. i had internal rotation and all the usual weak-rear-rotator stuff, frequently all starting from (of course) tight pecs. so warmup/preparation things that help me:
-broomstick dislocates. i pause at the point that gives me max pec stretch in a gentle way and this seems to be good. much rather do that than that doorway stretch that i never get right.
- straight-armed band pulls at boob height. this activates and warms up the rhomboid and other muscles that pull your shoulderblades towards each other. more pec releasing, too.
- Y's and T's. also just the 'empty pockets' move where you hold dumbbells in front of you at ~waist level, with your arm bent at right angles from the elbow. and then rotate your arm from the shoulder so that your hands end up out at your sides. these can all be tricky for me because of the impingement. on the other hand, doing them really makes me fix the impingement by subtly adjusting my shoulderblade and collarbone.
- on-handed overhead carry. i loooooove this move. seen it called the waiter walk too, and i do it with a small kettlebell turned upside down. it really helps me to stabilize my shoulder bone and the harder i grip the bell handle the more effective it is.
having said all of that though . . . yeah, rows still suck
even when you're doing them right they feel so unnatural you wonder if you are. 1 -
Off to Google those - thanks so much.
I am aching like mad today, so my back and shoulders felt it yesterday! I was already a little achey before the sets after taking the kids on a climbing wall session on Sunday, so in retrospect, not being a climber, Insusoect that didn't set me up the best. Good fun though and I surprised myself, perhaps in part due to early improvements from SL.
I haven't felt the way I do about getting stronger with exercise before, so perhaps this is "my thing". I am certainly going to give it a good shot and I am really very grateful for the free advice you ladies give.1 -
I do Pendlay rows, but I bought ten pound bumper plates so the bar is at the correct height. If you aren't feeling your lats, maybe you aren't lifting the bar high enough? I don't feel my lats engage until my elbow passes the midpoint of my ribcage.0
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canadianlbs wrote: »i swear, i can't 'feel' rows at all. and nothing wakes up my lats. i mean, i have them, and it's pretty clear that i'm using them. but they're about the only muscle i've got that i can use without getting any sensory feedback from them.
my lifting club thinks i'm hilarious. i've been having some trouble with bench, so we had this fiasco a few weeks ago where i'm flat on my back with 80 pounds in lockout position and they're all gathered round trying to help. yelling 'shelf! lats! lats! turn on the lats!' while i'm trying to start that first rep.
and me yelling back: "i can't feckin' FEEL my lats!"
Have you ever tried a straight-arm lat pulldown?1 -
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canadianlbs wrote: »
Please do -- it seems to me that for whatever reason (maybe it's lack of bicep involvement?) people tend to feel better lat engagement with this exercise. I'd be curious if it's the same for you, or not.
Another one to consider would be a lat pull-in.0 -
canadianlbs wrote: »
I hadn't done those for a while and did them yesterday. I could literally feel my lats "popping" over my shoulder blades on the side on my first set. It was a little scary, to be honest. Thankfully, making sure I kept my upper back well engaged and controlling the motion helped get rid of that unsettling feeling.
As far as Pendlay rows go, pausing for a second with the bar up against my chest seems to be where all the magic happens for me, so maybe that's something worth trying for you guys. Although really, I never actually "do" feel my lats working on the spot. I still wake up with noticeable lat soreness from time to time
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