Dogs on Trails.

WebbyShoo

Okay, so I got bit last winter, the dog (sheepdog, huge, owner 100 lbs not a very "present" owner and he was about 150 lbs) leashed on a long tie out type tether that you retract. I greeted them, I'm looking like a ninja mind you because it's winter, they are walking with 2 other dogs who are small and don't show any interest in me, but the sheep dog... he showed interest and she didn't retract the leash, I sensed his apprehension and tried to jump right of the trail more (I gave them lots of room) because the other 2 women with the other 2 dogs on leashes were between the sheep dog and myself and he lunged and bit me.... no stitches needed, but since then my anxiety has been very high running on my beloved trails. Especially sections with blind corners known for having lots of off leash dog walkers (they aren't supposed to be off leash it's also a bike trail). I've tried to get out running before the dog walkers and later than the dog walkers, as well I've started carrying rocks and dog spray just in case. I've also started to stop and walk past them, I don't make eye contact with the dogs passing by anymore, keeping my head down and trying to stay calm, they sense my anxiety so I explain to the dog owner I've been bit by a dog on leash down here before and they always look shocked that dogs would bite for no reason... yeah.

Do any of you have similar stories or fears? I'm just about done running the one area for good (which happens to be the section of my half trail marathon) because it's right next to the off leash park, hence so many dogs...

GiddyupTim

I would bring mace every time you go out there, and don't be reticent to use it. People with dogs that menace people know they have a dog that menaces people. The dog has barked, or lunged, or bit, without provocation, before. It is completely irresponsible, therefore, for them to have their dog unsecured -- on a short leash.
You have every right to protect yourself. Spray the owner if they get pissed! They are the ones out of line. Not you.
I really hate those people who stand there and scold: "Stop it muffy!" while the dog flips on the end of the leash, snarling viciously. That is not effective dog control. You train your dog, or don't take them out, or expect to get what you get.
No one should have to stand there and be threatened by a dog!
My wife got lunged at by a dog on one of those retractable leashes, and she fell off the curb and got a huge gash on her leg. So, I am kinda sensitive to this topic.
(Yes, I own a dog. My dog is incredibly well trained. But, she also does not come off the leash in places where she might encounter people unexpectedly. She is a powder puff. But, she has barked and snarled at people she did not like. That's what dogs do. Even the best trained dog can do something unexpected.)

WebbyShoo

Thanks for the reply and relating to me, I'll continue to bring the dog mace and keep it ready. It's not heavy and easy to set if I get startled. I think it gives me extra confidence just having it, but I still feel semi psycho carrying it! LOL. I'm sorry to hear that happened to your wife.

ZenInTexas

I loathe people who walk their dogs off leash. Just because you think your precious (insert large breed here) wouldn't hurt a fly doesn't mean I feel the same. My little brother was mauled by a family pet of a friends when he was 12 and bears the scars to this day. My husbands niece was also mauled by her family dog when she was 3 and her face is disfigured. She's 17 now and will need plastic surgery. So yeah, I'm extremely leery of dogs and I make a big detour off the path when I see one coming. I wouldn't hesitate to carry something for defence if I came across them often.

BrianSharpe

I am a dog owner and a runner and I would never take a dog off leash on a trail with cyclists and runners etc. It's a perfectly natural and predictable behaviour for dogs to give chase.

Any dog owner who is not in complete control of their dog is irresponsible and inconsiderate. The owners who don't train their dogs properly remind me of idiot parents who are more concerned about being their kids best friend than being a good parent - a well trained dog is a happy dog, they are a pack animal and need a clear understanding of their place in the social pecking order.

There are no bad dogs, just bad dog owners.

WebbyShoo

OMG, ZeninTexas that's horrible! All the more reason for me to avoid the area altogether I think after this half trail race. The scary part is, EVERY dog is a large dog on this one area of trail and all of them are off leash, I might just start yelling at people from 20 yards away to leash their dog before I approach. I've been literally sick from the anxiety on a few of my runs. I'd love a dog taser but I don't think their legal.. -.-

Bryan africkenmen. I wish that lady understood her dogs apprehension and had read his body language that day. Hell even I knew something was up before it happened and that's why I probably didn't get a larger deeper bite because I was aware. I knew he was "protecting" his pack and she didn't reassure/control him, I still shake my head at the whole thing, can't believe how it played out. I've always been very confident around dogs having owned a few different breeds and had friends with dogs as well, this was my first bite, and hopefully my last.

KathleenMurry

Please be careful with the spray. Only use it if a dog really does get in your face. I find some people are just WAY to sensitive to dogs. When I walk my regular trail, dog on short leash (and he does not care AT ALL about anybody on the trail, in fact he's very shy and it's usually people and other dogs bothering him!) people have hissy fits. They throw their arms up and make weird groaning noises. If your fear of dogs is this bad, I recommend staying out of public. My dog does not jump on people, does not bite people and does not bark at people and he is most often on a leash. Just because he's half great dane, people flip out at us for existing.
I hate this.

DavidMartinez2

If your fear of dogs is this bad, I recommend staying out of public.

No

KathleenMurry

If your fear of dogs is this bad, I recommend staying out of public.

No

So what do you propose? We keep all the dogs inside? It's not fair that people freak out at me and my large dog for being responsible and well behaved. If someone's problem is this bad, I recommend therapy.

KathleenMurry

Also, I've seen people's children behave worse. Let's put them all on short leashes and carry Kid Mace around.

WebbyShoo

If your fear of dogs is this bad, I recommend staying out of public.

No

So what do you propose? We keep all the dogs inside? It's not fair that people freak out at me and my large dog for being responsible and well behaved. If someone's problem is this bad, I recommend therapy.

Okay wow, didn't expect this to go this way, nor a comment that I need therapy. O.o Again, for the record, I've owned dogs, a rottie cross, shep, toy poodle (who was actually the most aggressive dog I've ever owned believe it or not) and been around all types of dogs, I love dogs.

What I don't love is dogs who aren't controlled by their owner, whether on or off a leash. I am not a passive unconfident waif of a person. I am a 140 lb strong capable woman, however, I can't "fight off" a dog with a jaw that locks on my arm or leg, without something to deter it. Therefore I carry rocks just in case I come around a corner and spook a large dog who isn't near it's owner and when I'm on longer runs where I am fatigued and far from home I bring the mace (it's a legal dog grade mace sold here and wouldn't permanently harm a dog) but a dog could permanently hurt me... your interpretation of the situation is a little skewed, no offence, but your fur baby doesn't have the ability to reason like a human.

This is a completely new issue for me in the past 6 months since being bit (for no reason and I approached the situation the best I could on my end when it happened) I've never been fearful or had a dog try to bite me before this. So I'm just looking to relate and maybe pick up any tips on how to deter dogs from approaching me this way again. Oh wait... it's not my job to deter them though is it? I've noticed people in my city are very lax about how they handle their dogs and it effing sucks for us runners!!! Especially on a trail with blind corners.

Maybe one day you'll see it from a different point of view. *edited because of earlier wording, I would never wish a dog attack on anyone, it's a horrible shocking feeling trusting a large animal out on the trails minding your own business to have it lunge at you and leave a gash, or disfigure you for life*

WebbyShoo

I love Great Danes btw, I plan on getting a St. Bernard one day, so this isn't a fear issue it's more of a how to issue now that I'm wary of strange dogs because of the experience, the others who commented, thank you for your insight and relating. I will continue to bring the mace/rocks just in case, consider this thread closed as I don't want to be party to an argument over something so sensitive.

KathleenMurry

If someone EVER hit my dog with a rock or sprayed him just for "spooking" them coming around a corner, just spooking, not even physically landing on them when jumping or not biting, I WILL call the cops and humane society. This is not acceptable and not the way to approach the situation. Are you American? Maybe it's an American thing. Probably goes in line with you feeling you need the right to carry a gun everywhere you go in case a person "spooks" you.

We can close this, because we won't agree.

KathleenMurry

Also, if you're looking for tips, like you mentioned...here you go

http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/dogs/tips/avoid_dog_bites.html

Nowhere does it say spray approaching dog with mace.

MorganLeighRN

I run with my cane corso when the weather is cooler. He is around 110 lbs and I ALWAYS keep him on his leash. I have a choke collar for him so I can control him and he is ALWAYS in my control. He is NEVER allowed to act viciously towards another dog or person unless he is instructed to do so (he is a guard dog in training for our vet clinic).

I think that the best thing you can do is act normal and ignore the dogs. They pick up on your apprehension and some will push it to the limits. Most people think that their dogs are complete angels and would never hurt a fly. We have clients who think that it is "cute" that their dogs growl at us and some even encourage it instead of putting a stop to it. My dogs (and we have 5) are NEVER allowed to show any sort of aggression, with the exception of our guard dog and ONLY is he is instructed to do so. If they do they are punished. Please don't confuse this with abuse because it isn't. We have taught our dogs that it is inappropriate to act in that manner and there is no reason for it unless our lives, or theirs, is in danger. I have had to remove my cane corso from situations because I simply don't trust other people or their dogs.

Also, please don't think that because I have a guard means that he is vicious or that we are training him to be vicious. It means that we have a dog that listens very well and that if he is in a situation that he is unsure of (ie. kids running around, screaming) he looks to me or my husband for direction instead of reacting. If we tell him that it is OK it means that he can lay down and not worry.

edible_lifter

Wow, I'm sorry to hear about you being bitten! What a horrible thing to experience! I had a friend who got bit by a rottweiler when we were kids. She was coming down the slide and when she got to the bottom he just lunged at her.

As per the mace/rocks, I think that's mace is a bit excessive, but I also think that on the whole it's fine, as long as you don't use it unless you're immediately (and obviously) threatened. Whatever makes you feel safe when you're running. Especially after being attacked.

As a pet owner, myself, I would have some choice words and legal action if someone maced my dog because they were 'spooked'. It's like punching someone because they looked at you wrong.

I hope you never have to use either! Stay safe.

mellorunner

While I wouldn't advocate using mace on a dog because it "spooked" you, I would support a runner/cyclist/walker/hiker/competitive badmiton player/etc who used mace on a dog which was lunging/snarling(off the leash) or otherwise behaving in a clearly pre-"your face looks tasty let me try it" sort of way. If the owner is being irresponsible (walking their dog off a leash) and that dog moves to attack, the person has a right to defend themself.

And please note, I love dogs. Grew up in a household that always had at least two dogs in it, and at times they were easily my favorite family members! But I don't mess around with dogs when I'm running or cycling.

KathleenMurry

Wow, I'm sorry to hear about you being bitten! What a horrible thing to experience! I had a friend who got bit by a rottweiler when we were kids. She was coming down the slide and when she got to the bottom he just lunged at her.

As per the mace/rocks, I think that's mace is a bit excessive, but I also think that on the whole it's fine, as long as you don't use it unless you're immediately (and obviously) threatened. Whatever makes you feel safe when you're running. Especially after being attacked.

As a pet owner, myself, I would have some choice words and legal action if someone maced my dog because they were 'spooked'. It's like punching someone because they looked at you wrong.

I hope you never have to use either! Stay safe.

I'm with Amy. There is a difference between being spooked by a dog (who might be equally spooked by you coming around a corner) and being viciously threatened by a dog who is capable of reaching you to attack.

For your own safety, read the article I provided a link to above. These suggestions are very effective. For the dog's safety, only use mace (never rocks, speaking of disfiguring someone), if you are in serious danger of an attack.

And I only said someone needs therapy if they are frightened even by well behaved dogs on leashes (like my dog). It's caused by trauma (your bite). People get therapy after trauma so they can move on with life.

Carolyn_79

I'm in awe that people let their dogs off-leash on a running/cycling trail. I have 2 large dogs and I would never let them off leash in an on-leash designated area for their own safety. It's unfortunate that it's not enforced on the trail you run on. I don't recommend mace though. Depending on the direction, you could end up macing yourself and it does have the reverse effect and makes some dogs more aggressive. I think how you're handling it now is the right way. Pay attention to body language, stop running and step to the side if the dog seems anxious.

WebbyShoo

Just for anyone who's curious, I'm in Alberta and this is the product I'm using is legal (it's not a bear strength grade) http://www.macecanada.com/canada/product/sabre.htm and I only bring it on my long runs because I'm far out from home in the middle of nowhere on isolated trails, or trails known to have lots of off leash dogs. It would take forever for people to find me to help even with directions (we also have coyotes I've encountered) and would have no other way to deter a dog off when fatigued. I'm not a jumpy person normally. I'm well trained in self defence and able to physically defend myself normally. I should clarify that I'm not the one being spooked (I'm mentally prepared for a dog now at every corner with a rock in each palm and repeat some mantras to stay confident). It's the dogs I've mentioned off leash on a blind trail who get spooked and startled. Usually I stop and walk, say hello and try to keep eye contact to a minimum with them.

Sometimes I have to look for the owner (you would be surprised how far a head these idiots let their large dogs roam from them) and hence where the anxiety comes from. Depending on the dog and as mentioned it's body language, I've realized these dog populated trails are a minefield though... you never know which way to respond with certain dogs. With that depending, I will greet or just look down and start walking ignoring it, but I never offer it a hand to smell. A few of them do nothing, but now most of them perk up to my stopping running (there is no in between it seems with some dogs, some get weirded out when you stop to walk and some give chase when you keep running).

I actually got the idea for the small rocks from the www.letsrun.com forum (great forum btw for lots of different topics, lol, trying to keep this light). Thanks for the advice and the reassurance, I understand dogs mentalities and always catered to that before, I catered to it the day I got bit and still got bit, that's the stressful part of the whole incident, I did everything on my end right.

I think I'll just end up skipping the one area of trail entirely for the next few years, some of it was flooded out last month anyways, no loss to me.

WebbyShoo

Also, if you're looking for tips, like you mentioned...here you go

http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/dogs/tips/avoid_dog_bites.html

Nowhere does it say spray approaching dog with mace.

Thanks for the link but I don't find any of this helpful for the situation I've been in (that dog was on leash who bit me and as I was slowly passing by it lunged to the far side of the trail while on a thin tether style leash. The waify unexperienced owner who didn't read his signals, and couldn't hold him off is at fault, she could have said something to him verbally and tied in the leash to restrain him but she blindly trusted him like so many owners do. I'd like to keep as much space between myself and the dogs as possible, unfortunately, it's usually a dog approaching me, which means if they come to close and body language doesn't seem right, then and only then would they get the spray. So far I've never had to use it, it does give me confidence to have knowing at least I have something to deter them, because lets face it, once a dog locks on, there isn't much that will shock them out of an attack. As some people have mentioned, attacks happen when least expecting them and undeservingly so. The problem is the owners blindly trusting and not being in control of their dogs.