Training for my first marathon
MNLittleFinn
Posts: 4,271 Member
I have my first marathon coming up in mid June, and I'm already starting to prep for it. One of the things I decided to do was go all in, and order a custom training plan, to help me get some structure in my training.
well, I just got my custom training plan (earlier than I was expecting). I decided to order one because:
A) this is totally new to me (training for marathon distance) and,
I'm not so great at making my own plans, so I wanted some professional input.
I ordered the plan from Jason Fitzgerald at Strengthrunning.com. I've been avidly reading his blog and getting the free Emails for a while, and in addition to really liking the information, and how he does things, I looked at my buying a plan as one way to give back a little for what I've gotten, even though I'm getting more (the plan) by doing this. Also, there's a HUGE focus on injury prevention, which I really liked
The plan came in an Excel sheet, and holy moly, it's detailed. it Starts out at 32mpw and tops out at 52. it has 4 18 mile runs 2 19 mile runs and 2 20 mile runs. Looking at the mileage, it's obvious that it breaks the 35% rule on long runs. The Email that the plan was attached to was several paragraphs itself, explaining things and giving more input on general training and injury prevention.
General outline of how each week works:
Monday:
Easy run 4-7 miles (later in the plan the last 3-6 are at GMP)
Tuesday:
Rest
or 3-4 miles + Strides
Wednesday:
Speed day: progression runs, tempo runs, Tempo intervals, cruise intervals, etc...
Thursday:
XT day 30-60min Elliptical
Friday:
3-5 easy miles + strides
Saturday:
Long Run 13-18 miles
on the 18 mile runs, the last 6 miles are at GMP
Sunday:
Easy run 3-5 miles
All the runs are prefaced with a warm up and followed by either a IT Band workout, Core workout or the Myrtl routine.
I don't start until the end of the month, but I'll be updating this thread, probably weekly, with my progress once I get started on training "for real"
well, I just got my custom training plan (earlier than I was expecting). I decided to order one because:
A) this is totally new to me (training for marathon distance) and,
I'm not so great at making my own plans, so I wanted some professional input.I ordered the plan from Jason Fitzgerald at Strengthrunning.com. I've been avidly reading his blog and getting the free Emails for a while, and in addition to really liking the information, and how he does things, I looked at my buying a plan as one way to give back a little for what I've gotten, even though I'm getting more (the plan) by doing this. Also, there's a HUGE focus on injury prevention, which I really liked
The plan came in an Excel sheet, and holy moly, it's detailed. it Starts out at 32mpw and tops out at 52. it has 4 18 mile runs 2 19 mile runs and 2 20 mile runs. Looking at the mileage, it's obvious that it breaks the 35% rule on long runs. The Email that the plan was attached to was several paragraphs itself, explaining things and giving more input on general training and injury prevention.
General outline of how each week works:
Monday:
Easy run 4-7 miles (later in the plan the last 3-6 are at GMP)
Tuesday:
Rest
or 3-4 miles + Strides
Wednesday:
Speed day: progression runs, tempo runs, Tempo intervals, cruise intervals, etc...
Thursday:
XT day 30-60min Elliptical
Friday:
3-5 easy miles + strides
Saturday:
Long Run 13-18 miles
on the 18 mile runs, the last 6 miles are at GMP
Sunday:
Easy run 3-5 miles
All the runs are prefaced with a warm up and followed by either a IT Band workout, Core workout or the Myrtl routine.
I don't start until the end of the month, but I'll be updating this thread, probably weekly, with my progress once I get started on training "for real"
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Outside of the MFP monthly running challenge, I never heard of the 35% rule for long runs. I know quite a few marathon runners, including some repeat Boston runners, some BQ wannabes, and one repeat Iron Man. They all talk about getting in a 20 mile run during the training cycle. None of them talk about what percentage of their weekly mileage the long run is.1
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Thanks @MobyCarp. I think it's a @Stoshew71 influence that I look for that in plans. I really like how this one looks so I'm not going to sweat it, and just go with what the plan says.0
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@MNLittleFinn thanks for posting the description if your plan, very interesting! I look forward to hearing how it goes for you.
I don't buy into the long run limit of 35%. I've seen ultra running plans where the long run approaches 50%.
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A little more information on the Speedwork for my training plan.
wks 1-4, the Wednesday speedwork is progression runs, 7-8 miles with the last 2 miles at Steady State pace
Wks4-6 Tempo intervals which go like this:
3 miles at E
2x1 mile at T with 90sec jog in between
3 miles at E
Not 100% sure on the E miles, so I split them evenly
Wk 7: 6 mile Fartleks with 8x1min at 5k pace
Wks 8-9: 9 miles Tempo intervals
3 mile warm up
3x1mile at T with 90sec jog in between
3 mile cool down at E
Wks 10-11: 9 mile Tempo Runs
3 miles at E
3 miles at T
3 Miles at E
Wk12: 7 mile Fartlek with 8x90sec at 5k pace
Wk 13-14: 9 mile Tempo Run
3 mile at E
4 miles at T
2 miles at E
Wks 15-16: 10 mile Tempo Run
2 miles at E
5 miles at T
3 miles at E
Wks 17-18: I'm calling this a Tempo Fartlek
2 miles at E
3 miles at T
Then, in the last 5 miles, throw in 6x1min at 5k pace
Week 19: 8 mile Tempo Fartlek
2 miles at E
2 miles at T
Then, in the last 4 miles, throw in 8x1min at 5k pace
Week 20 5 mile Fartlek with 8x1min at 5k pace
I'm not 100 percent sure I'll do the speed workouts the last 2 weeks, but I'm a LONG ways from that.
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I've been mining into the Email that came with my Training plan, and thought I'd write a bit on the paces for my runs. Using A few of my PR's and my general goals, I was given paces for my runs that go as follow:
5k Pace: 7:50-8:05
Tempo Pace: 8:20-8:35
Steady State Pace: 8:45-9:00
Easy Pace: 9:15-10:15, though I might actually keep it a little slower at 9:30-10:30
Where pacing gets sticky for me is on my Fast Finish Long Runs. Since I'm supposed to end those runs with 3-5 miles at GMP, and my GMP was set to be around 10:18, for a 4:30: marathon, basically 2x the time of my first HM. Jason told me to run the fast parts of my Fast Finish Long Runs at 9:15, the fast end of my E range. He also said that 9:45 would be a reasonable pace to target for my marathon. That's 5 months off, but at least it gives me something to think about since my mind likes to keep active.
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MNLittleFinn wrote: »I've been mining into the Email that came with my Training plan, and thought I'd write a bit on the paces for my runs. Using A few of my PR's and my general goals, I was given paces for my runs that go as follow:
5k Pace: 7:50-8:05
Tempo Pace: 8:20-8:35
Steady State Pace: 8:45-9:00
Easy Pace: 9:15-10:15, though I might actually keep it a little slower at 9:30-10:30
Where pacing gets sticky for me is on my Fast Finish Long Runs. Since I'm supposed to end those runs with 3-5 miles at GMP, and my GMP was set to be around 10:18, for a 4:30: marathon, basically 2x the time of my first HM. Jason told me to run the fast parts of my Fast Finish Long Runs at 9:15, the fast end of my E range. He also said that 9:45 would be a reasonable pace to target for my marathon. That's 5 months off, but at least it gives me something to think about since my mind likes to keep active.
I waffle back and forth on agreeing and disagreeing with him here. Based on where you are now and the training you have in front of you, physically I think this will be more than possible for you. The challenge is in the mental aspect of it. This is your first marathon, and that's the only reason why I say that. Having a time goal for a first marathon can be a double edged sword. You really have no idea what you are in for. If you go out too fast based on your time goal, you risk not finishing or finishing in a time that is far from your capabilities and will end up disappointed. If you take it easy and use it as a learning experience, you will be in a better position to make huge improvements the second time around. Of course, we are all different people and we all approach things differently, so you need to decide what will work best for you.
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@lporter229 your thoughts echo mine. I just figured that, since I'm putting stuff out there for informational purposes I'd post all he said.1
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Gotcha. And the thing is, maybe you will be so ready that that is your slow and easy pace! Not at all trying to discourage here. I want you to nail this thing...i think we all do!1
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lporter229 wrote: »Gotcha. And the thing is, maybe you will be so ready that that is your slow and easy pace! Not at all trying to discourage here. I want you to nail this thing...i think we all do!
Yup. I figure that can be my stretch goal, with primary goal to finish. But that's a long way off. I think that I'm just thinking about it so much because I don't have the regimented structure of training to fall back on yet. Eyes are on the prize, but I'm not feeling like I'm working toward it yet0 -
PT cleared me to run on thursday, and I went for a Run last night. Just 4 miles, but at a pretty darn fast 9:36 pace. It felt good. Assuming that my planned 6 miler this evening goes just as well, I'm planning to rest tomorrow, and start w1d1 of my training plan on MONDAY! I'll be 2 weeks early, but it will give me some leeway for life happening.
Worst case, I need to use the 2 weeks because of illness/injury/whatever, but I'm still on track....best case scenario, I have an extra 2 weeks and add an additional week of training, with a 22 mile run, and an additional week of taper to bring it up to 3 weeks.0 -
Today was my first day on "real training" for my marathon. The assignment was to run 5 miles at E and then run 4 strides. I ran the E too fast, and didn't take enough recovery between strides. Other than that, it was a good workout.
After each run I have a different "warm down" work to do as well. Today was the IT Band Rehab Routine it wasn't necessarily all that "hard" but I did find out that I really need to work on left leg strength as compared to right, the pistol squats were a lot harder for my left leg!
Tomorrow is my first fast workout in a long time, a progression run with the assignment being 7 miles with the last 2 at Steady State Pace!0 -
What kind of recovery does your plan call for between strides? The typical thing I've been given is easy jog between strides, typically the same distance as the stride. I've been assigned strides in lengths of 50m, 60m, 100m, 200m, and no length specified in various workouts, not necessarily all in the same overall training plan.0
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@MobyCarp From my Emailed instructions:In case you're not familiar, strides are ~100m accelerations done after your run on your road, sidewalk, front yard if it's big enough, or nearby field. Start at a jog, build to about 95% of your maximum speed, hold for 2-3 seconds, and then slow to a stop. One stride should take you 20-25 seconds. Take a minute of walking/standing in between each one
They are always tacked on after a shorter run of 4-6 miles. I think I was taking like 10-15 seconds between mine. I thought I was later than I was, otherwise there would have been more recovery in between.0 -
Okay, that's calling for more recovery time that I typically have between strides. But if the stride is taking 20 seconds and you're taking 15 seconds recovery, that's less than I do. Same distance recovery = more time recovery, by the nature of things.
Since they're giving you walking/standing recovery instead of easy run, I'd think the strides for your program are intended to be quite intense.0 -
Okay, that's calling for more recovery time that I typically have between strides. But if the stride is taking 20 seconds and you're taking 15 seconds recovery, that's less than I do. Same distance recovery = more time recovery, by the nature of things.
Since they're giving you walking/standing recovery instead of easy run, I'd think the strides for your program are intended to be quite intense.
yeah. I may have not been going quite hard enough on them, since I'm supposed to reach 95% max speed. On icy roads, I wasn't wanting to go all out sprint, there's a learning curve here too, I've got to figure out how to get to that speed controlled and come back down.
Here's his explanation of strides: http://strengthrunning.com/2012/10/what-are-strides/
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Weekly training Recap:
Monday: 5 miles plus 4 strides
Tuesday- Rest
Wednesday: 7 miles last 2 on the border between Tempo and Steady State
Thursday: PT visit
Friday: 4 miles plus 4 strides
Saturday: 13.11 miles
Sunday: 3.14 miles
Weekly total: 33.3
Week's notes: Fully cleared from my calfe/Achilles injury just in time for my shin to start bugging me when I'm NOT running. Other than that nagging issue, it was a good week, and one where I learned a lot about what changes I need to make in my training/pacing.
Change number 1 will be to start making an effort to run slower, more in the ~10:00 pace range.
Change number 2. really get into my warm ups, I can tell the difference when I do them.
Change number 3, make sure I'm doing all the exercises for my cool downs and doing them properly.1 -
Weekly Recap a day late
Last week was a messed up week because of my left shin, but here's how it looked:
Monday: 5 miles
Tuesday: Rest
Wednesday: 7.15
Thursday: Rest
Friday: rest/recovery
Saturday: Rest/recovery
Sunday: 3.15
Total: 15.3
Looking to see if I can't get back on track this week. 6 miler this morning felt just fine to me.0 -
Week 3 Recap
Monday: 6 miles @ 9:51 pace. I opted to skip the strides since my leg was healing,
Tuesday: REST
Wednesday: 8.1 miles. Progression run.
6 miles at 9:47
1.5 miles at 8:40
0.6 at 8:24
Thursday: REST and PT Clearance to run!
Friday: 4.23 miles at 9:45 pace
Saturday: 14.11 miles at 9:47 pace Distance PR!
Sunday: 3.16 miles at 9:33 pace
Total weekly mileage: 35.590 -
Week 4 Recap
Monday: 6.17 Miles @ 9:54
Tuesday: REST
Wednesday: 8.09 mile Progression Run
6 miles at 9:46
1.5 miles at 8:42
0.59 at 8:28
Thursday: REST
Friday: .04 miles @ 9:47
Saturday: 14.01 Miles S 9:55
Sunday: 3.04 Miles @ 11:05
Total weekly mileage: 35.35
Next week is a pretty big jump, to 40 miles, so we'll see how it goes. I'm definitely thinking about slowing down the pace even more. my "very happy" goal for the marathon is 4:20, and that's a 9:55 pace....I've been a bit faster than that.....0 -
Week 5 recap
Monday: 6 Miles @ 9:47 pace
Tuesday: 3.1 miles @ 9:45 pace
Wednesday: Tempo Intervals:
Miles 1-3 I averaged 9:42 pace.
First Tempo Rep was 8:20 pace
Second Tempo rep was 8:20 pace
Miles 6-8 I averaged right at 9:30
Thursday: REST
Friday: 4.02 miles + 4 Strides
Saturday: 15.04 Miles
Sunday: 4.03 miles
Weekly Total: 41.1
Week 5 went well!1 -
Week 6 Recap
Monday: 6 Miles @ 9:33 pace
Tuesday: 3 miles @ 9:34 pace + 4 strides
Wednesday: Tempo Intervals:
Miles 1-3 I averaged 9:37 pace.
First Tempo Rep was 8:19 pace
Second Tempo rep was 8:21 pace
Miles 6-8 I averaged 9:21
Thursday: REST!
Friday: 4 miles @ 9:23 + 4 strides
Saturday: 15.12 miles @ 9:33
Sunday: 4.16 miles @ 9:13
Weekly total: 41.81
Week 6 was tougher, my left calf/shin were acting up this week. I'm pretty sure that's a function of training hard for 6 weeks. Tomorrow starts a cutback week (29 miles) So I'm hoping that will help things out.
I ran "too fast" this week, so I think I will be focusing on running closer to GMP or slower from here on out. I have mixed feelings on this, part of me "knows" that I've been running too fast, but another part is saying that I'm not actually going too fast, and I'm selling myself short by thinking that way.....oh, the joys of training for one's first marathon!
Edit: Side note, I hit both a long run distance PR, and a weekly mileage PR this week.....really puts marathon training into perspective.0 -
MNLittleFinn wrote: »I ran "too fast" this week, so I think I will be focusing on running closer to GMP or slower from here on out. I have mixed feelings on this, part of me "knows" that I've been running too fast, but another part is saying that I'm not actually going too fast, and I'm selling myself short by thinking that way.....oh, the joys of training for one's first marathon!
Much of the struggle is first, figuring out how slow you need to run; and second, making yourself run that slow. Every marathon runner in the world will tell you that if you go out too fast, it will come back to bite you. Most of us have been bitten. I felt great through 19 miles of the Rochester Marathon . . . and ended up face down on the sidewalk a mile from the finish. 20-20 hindsight says I should have just stuck with the 3:30 pacer and run the whole 26 miles at an easy pace.
So now I know what marathon pace I'm targeting, and the hard part of my training is getting myself to run at that pace and not faster. Easy running, I can do. Tempo runs, I can do. Holding that odd MP that's faster than easy but not really hard is challenging. And that's even with a pretty good idea of what I can run a marathon in, which is slower than what the online calculators say I can do.0 -
@MobyCarp using several PR's that I gave him, Fitzgerald gave me pace ranges to use for my training runs. The E Pace seemed fast, at a range of 9:15-10:15, so I've been keeping it over 9:30 on average, but really focusing on keeping it closer to 9:45, which has been hard. That said, the tempo run pace range seems to be right on, so I don't know...
Here's the kicker, when I asked Fitzgerald about the E range, since it was actually faster than my secondary marathon goal, and my stretch goal is in that pace range.... His response was that he thinks my marathon pace could end up being ~9:45, and that pacing issues for me, as he saw it, were more a matter of me being a pretty darn new runner.
With a stretch goal of 4:20, that puts my "goal" marathon pace right in the middle of my E range as it stands.....0 -
A goal in the middle of E for your first marathon is a pretty reasonable thing. I know people who ran their first marathon in something like 4:30, then the second in 3:45, and ultimately settled in at 3:30-ish for a well trained marathon in good conditions.
I'm an outlier, having run my first marathon in 3:21, my second in 3:23, and having been on a pace for 3:20 in tough conditions with hills and humidity before cramping up in my 3rd attempt. It's kind of a guess what I should be aiming at, but first I need to learn to manage the race to stay healthy.0 -
A goal in the middle of E for your first marathon is a pretty reasonable thing. I know people who ran their first marathon in something like 4:30, then the second in 3:45, and ultimately settled in at 3:30-ish for a well trained marathon in good conditions.
I'm an outlier, having run my first marathon in 3:21, my second in 3:23, and having been on a pace for 3:20 in tough conditions with hills and humidity before cramping up in my 3rd attempt. It's kind of a guess what I should be aiming at, but first I need to learn to manage the race to stay healthy.
Thanks for the info! I really feel, at this point ant a a 4:15-4:25 finish is doable. albeit I am only up to 15 miles, but so far, that has worked pretty well for me. It seems like I'm recovering from my 15 milers in about the same time that I used to recover from 10 mile runs, so I think I'm doing OK.....Having no experience to fall back on has made it something of a guessing game for me as far as to what I can handle in training.0 -
After a week and a half off, I am finally running again. Some more back story. A week and a half ago on Friday 3/2, I cut my run off after only about 100 yards, because the pain right below my right knee told me that even though I could go further, doing it would be a VERY bad idea.
Fast Forward to the next day, when I met wit my GP who is a DO. Got a tentative diagnosis of Patellarfemoral syndrome and was told to RICE my knee and take NSAIDs.
FINALLY, by last Thursday, my leg was feeling just about 100%, so I went for a run. ran just about 3 miles on Thursday, rested Friday, Ran 6 miles on Saturday, Rested yesterday, and Ran 4 more today.
Fast Forward to this afternoon. I had my coaching call with Jason Fitzgerald (great guy) and found out that I had done everything correctly (RICE, NSAIDs and pre/rehab exercises) he had wanted to talk mainly because, I guess, most runners don't stop running soon enough, turns out that I did. I had 30 minutes, but it only took 12, so he could ask me some questions and get some info so he could redo the rest of my plan.
Part of me was like man, that was quick, but I had been emailing him a bunch, and the call was mainly just to confirm things so he could ask clarifying questions based on what I told him.
15 minutes later, I received my updated plan. I am on week of 20 still, and the main differences are that this week and next week have reduced mileage, and the speed work is limited to intervals at Tempo Pace.
Week 10 I am back to full mileage, and from here on out, the fast runs are all up to Tempo pace, and not faster.
It was Good to hear that I had done the right things, and having a 2 week build up before going back to full mileage should give me some confidence, as well as letting my body readjust to running again.
Looking at the plan, I'll still end up done a week ahead of time (IF I don't hurt myself again) so I'll still have some wiggle room, which is nice.5 -
I'm glad you have a coach who can adjust the plan and tell you how much to back off. That has been very important to me, and it may well be a critical factor getting you to the start line healthy. You can't finish a marathon if you don't make it to the start line.2
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I'm glad you have a coach who can adjust the plan and tell you how much to back off. That has been very important to me, and it may well be a critical factor getting you to the start line healthy. You can't finish a marathon if you don't make it to the start line.
Yeah, it was good, I was kind of lost figuring out how to get back into training, so it really helped to get recovery factored in and planned out for me.
I ended up dishing out more money (coaching call was not included when he made the plan) but I figured it was an investment in my running, so I ate the cost and it turned out to be the right choice.
He's answered a bunch of emails from me as I had questions so, even though it was some money, I felt ok with it because of all thr free advice he'd already given me.
I don't normally like to spend money, so I'm hoping that, after this training cycle, I'll have something of an idea of plan making, so I can work up my own after this.0 -
Finally updating this past after half a month of more disappointments.
After seeming to be getting going again the week of 3/13, I ended up getting sick that weekend and was sick for 4 days. I ended up missing another whole week of running before I felt good enough to try it again.
I jumped into training as best I could on 3/25, and then on 3/27 I started on week 9 of my revised plan. Week 9 went well I got in almost 39 miles that week, culminating in a 15.23 mile run this last Saturday. I felt great after the run, so I'm hoping that I'm back on track.
So far, this week has been good, I don't want to jinx it though, so no update until Sunday when/if I finish a second full week back training!
Thanks for the support all!1 -
Gut check tomorrow. I don't know for sure what it is, but pushing past the 16 mile mark on a long run seems to be a big deal to me. Tomorrow's run is supposed to be 17-18 miles. 17, if I run the "back up plan" and 18 if I run the "original plan" My route allows for both, preatty easily, so the option is open.
I'm still waffling a little on whether or not I'm going to run with fuel along, or run it with just breakfast for fuel. I have another run of the same distance next week, so I'll be able to run fully fueled at that distance, one way or another. The thought of using the first run at each new distance as an unfueled run to train myself to burn fat for fuel, is where I'm leaning right now. Plus, just getting ready and going, without the logistics of getting my gels/filling bottles/grabbing my hydration belt seems like a good idea, since I'll be driving to my start and running back home.
I'm notorious for over thinking though, so we'll see.....2
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