TrainerRoad vs Other Apps

pedermj2002

Over the winter, I used TrainerRoad to keep me improving, and it really helped me out. As spring arrives, though, I'm wanting to get outdoors, and TrainerRoad is *not* conducive to outdoor workouts. Furthermore, I can't grab a .tcx or .fit file and upload it to TrainerRoad to continue showing my workout schedule. This really came to the forefront last night because of a ride I took yesterday. 30miles on a beautiful trail, but I can't tell TrainerRoad about it at all.

I'm wondering if there's anybody here that uses TrainerRoad and can give me a reason to stay with it. Right now, I'm leaning towards switching to TrainingPeaks. I can do indoor workouts on my trainer, they get automatically sync'ed up, *and* I can go outdoors and have them sync'ed up. My workout calendar is complete, all stats are tracked in one place... I'm having a hard time deciding why I would stay with TrainerRoad.

Current equipment (and planned changes), in case that influences your reasoning for me:

• Garmin Edge 820
• Garmin Speed / Cadence sensors
• Garmin Chest Strap
• Garmin Varia lights (head and radar/rear)
• Kurt Kinetic Road Machine trainer (planning on switching to CycleOps Magnus next winter)
• Adding in a bike mounted power meter that speaks ANT+ so it will connect to the Edge 820, not sure which one yet, but aiming to do so this week

With this in mind, and knowing that the Edge 820 has available (via ConnectIQ) the TrainingPeaks app which lets it download today's workout plans from TrainingPeaks (another integration that TrainerRoad does not offer), why would I want to continue the subscription to TrainerRoad? Is there a good compelling reason for it?

NorthCascades

I haven't been on a trainer in years so what I'm able to say is pretty limited, but I'm trying to be helpful.

You have a pretty great setup. I think having a power meter will keep all of your indoor training options open (eg you don't need any specific trainer to be able to use anything) but I could be wrong on this front.

I love having a power meter and it benefits me in ways I didn't realize when I got it. Some of those ways dovetail very nicely with TrainingPeaks. I'm not using TP currently but have been meaning to check them out and will probably do so pretty soon now that spring is unfolding. I can go into more detail if you want, but won't unless asked because I don't want to derail your thread ... but what I'm saying is that TrainingPeaks will probably become more attractive to you in the coming week than it is today.

pedermj2002

Yeah, TrainingPeaks is already pretty attractive. Structured workouts, coaches, all of that right there. That's some really nice stuff. I'm still zeroing in on my trainer for next winter, mainly because I want one with ANT+ FE-C, so that the Edge can control it and simulate hills for me.

I'm just torn. Part of is some sort of "loyalty" (for lack of a better word) to a company that helped me improve and get through the winter. But when that company can't integrate well with outdoor training (which is, after all, the entire point of training indoors, at least to me), I don't know that I can stick with them.

And TP offers a lot of analysis options that I haven't begun to touch yet. I like what I'm seeing.

NorthCascades

I'm using Golden Cheetah, and you should probably play with it (it's free). Very deep analysis in there. I really like the map screen, and you'll be amazed at what the map can do with your power data. What TrainingPeaks has for me over Golden Cheetah is simply that I can get my data in easier. Garmin will send every workout you do over to TP as soon as you save it, if you want.

Have you looked into Zwift? I haven't used it (or TR) but everybody has been talking about it all winter.

I definitely understand the sense of loyalty. It's probably not so much that, as it is that this is complicated and only somewhat charted, and you found something that's worked for you, so it does make a lot of sense to stick with a winner. I think in this case it sounds like you'll be getting more than you give up ... but again you have to take my opinion with a real big grain of salt.

pedermj2002

I've considered Golden Cheetah very lightly. If I were to do that, I'd wind up setting up something that logged into Garmin Connect and pulls the data down automatically to make it available for analysis in Golden Chetah. Could even set up a Raspberry Pi specifically to do that and have it available very shortly after I get home if I wanted.

As for TrainingPeaks, though, I'm 99% certain I'm going to subscribe to them. I see too much value in it. I get the structured workouts, and a calendar, *and* more activities than just cycling if I wish. I could add in one of the Fenix models and track other workout types and have everything visible in one location, tracking everything. What I've seen of Training Peaks makes me think I should be focused on making that happen.

My real question, though, is if I should keep TrainerRoad. It syncs with Strava, but that's only from TR to Strava. There's no way to get data into TR that I can find, short of running their app and recording a ride. And the data analysis is non-existent. I'm very close to simply ditching it at the end of the current billing cycle, but I figured I should give a chance for somebody to show me why TR is really something I should keep around.

I like them, but I think I'm outgrowing them. That's okay if that's what's happening. I just need to figure it out.

NorthCascades

It doesn't sound like there's anything of value for you in TR at this point. But I keep hoping somebody who rides indoors will come along and comment. Here's a bike specific forum where you might find more info.

TrainingPeaks has something called the Performance Management Chart, it's actually very useful despite the wonky name. They'll use your heart rate or power data to determine how much stress you undergo from exercise, and then use that to work out your fitness and your fatigue levels. It's visual and very intuitive and I find it very helpful. It'll answer questions like: I'm going out to Ephrata and plan to ride from Soap Lake to Dry Falls and back, how much getting ready do I need, and how much rest before the ride?

ntnunk

The biggest value of TrainerRoad is the training plans. Yes, you can get workouts and such from TrainingPeaks but the last time I looked the plans were mostly things you have to pay for.

The thing you have to understand is that the workouts don't exist in a vacuum. You can do workouts and you'll probably see improvements, but the week-on-week progressions, the timing of certain types of workouts, those are the things that you either have to rely on someone else to provide or have the (considerable) knowledge required to build yourself. TrainerRoad's workout plans have all that built in.

Speaking personally, I use TrainerRoad almost every day. I'm normally on the bike 6 days per week, and even in summer at least 2-3 of those days will include trainer work. Why? Because if you spend the winter doing structured work, come into the spring strong, and then spend your summer "just riding" you will, in all likelihood, not be as strong in July as you were in April. You have to keep structure in your weekly training, even if it's only a session or two per week, if you want to get strong, stay strong, and keep getting stronger.

My setup is TrainerRoad to guide the training, Training Peaks for tracking and planning, and Golden Cheetah for analysis. I don't worry about trying to track in TrainerRoad. I pick my TR plan, plug the workouts into the calendar on Training Peaks, and then use that to monitor and "check off" workouts.

pedermj2002

The argument about having to buy training plans on training peaks doesn't hold weight with me for one big reason: That's exactly what I'm doing with TrainerRoad, except I'm paying for it in the form of a monthly subscription instead of explicitly calling out the price of an individual plan.

TrainerRoad is not bad, not at all. It just isn't showing me reasons to stay after the first few plans are completed. I've established a base, and can train up from there using anything. At the beginning, I see a lot of value. In much later training, I could see a lot of value. In the middle, where I am? I don't know. I'm just not as convinced by it.

ntnunk

pedermj2002 wrote: »

The argument about having to buy training plans on training peaks doesn't hold weight with me for one big reason: That's exactly what I'm doing with TrainerRoad, except I'm paying for it in the form of a monthly subscription instead of explicitly calling out the price of an individual plan.

I guess it depends on how you look at it. For me, yes, I'm paying for plans with TrainerRoad but I have a wide variety of plans and workouts I can mix and match as my needs change or if I just want something different. With TrainingPeaks, you have what you've bought. You want more, you have to buy more. Plus many of the TrainingPeaks plans I've seen you could buy many months of TrainerRoad for the cost of one of those plans. I guess part of it is that if you buy TrainerRoad by the year it winds up only being $8 per month. Personally, it's hard for me to care much about the cost when you're talking about those kinds of numbers. I blow twice that on lunch many days. Your mileage may vary, of course.

pedermj2002 wrote: »

TrainerRoad is not bad, not at all. It just isn't showing me reasons to stay after the first few plans are completed. I've established a base, and can train up from there using anything. At the beginning, I see a lot of value. In much later training, I could see a lot of value. In the middle, where I am? I don't know. I'm just not as convinced by it.

My stance would be that the "middle ground" is arguably where you want the structure the most. If you're really out of shape or a new cyclist you can make a lot of progress just by riding. Once you hit that plateau, arguably the middle ground here, that's where you need the help to continue making progress. It really comes down to what you want though. If you're happy just riding your bike, and there is nothing wrong with that and many people are very happy doing it, then it doesn't really matter. Even if you are just trying to get to the point where you can ride longer distances and don't care about speed, it probably doesn't matter much. You can get what you need just by spending more time in the saddle, ideally in a progressive fashion (i.e. gradually increasing time or mileage on a weekly basis). But if you're time-crunched and/or trying to get faster as well, the best and most efficient way to do it is structured training.

In case there's any question, I freely admit to being a huge TrainerRoad fan. I've been a user since the free beta days back in 2011 and every single time I've made a substantial leap forward in strength and speed on the bike it's been via consistent use of TrainerRoad. I've purchased and used other training plans, I even hired a coach for two years, but TrainerRoad has consistently been the best vehicle for making the biggest gains in the shortest time.

All that said, I think you certainly need to review the decisions and make the best one for you. There are many other options, what with SufferFest, Today's Plan, Training Peaks, coaches, Garmin training plans, etc etc etc. I guess the biggest takeaway here is to decide first and foremost what it is exactly you're trying to accomplish. If you just want to ride, then just ride and you'll be fine. Many people do just this. But if your goal is to progress, don't fall into the trap of thinking you only need structure at certain times or levels of fitness.

pedermj2002

I don't dispute that TrainerRoad has value, especially in the structured workout department. It really did help me out over the winter. As I look around at other options, though, and look at the information I'm getting from the sensors I'm using, and the analysis I get elsewhere that I don't get with TR, that value is disappearing.

For instance, one of the stats I get as of today is pedal smoothness (power meter provides this), along with left/right balance. TrainerRoad doesn't show me this, so I have no objective way to gauge how I'm doing from TrainerRoad on those stats.

I don't have a way to bring outdoor rides in without possibly killing the phone in a number of ways (my phone doesn't have ANT+, so I had to buy a USB adapter that simply kills the battery after a few hours, or I run a real risk of just damaging the phone when I leave it on and out on the handlebars if something happens, etc). When I switch away from the phone or the laptop, my worries about those parts go down.

I can export some of the data from TR to elsewhere for analysis, and I'm going to do just that tomorrow to see how much of the original data carries over. I'm not expecting to see all of it, though.

Limited export, no import, limited reporting, and little to no outdoor integration. TR has helped me (and others) in a huge way. I just don't see me advocating for them at this point, not with the analysis I can get in so many other places for both indoor and outdoor rides.

I have multiple goals: Lose weight, gain distance endurance, and gain speed. In that order. I can see workouts available elsewhere that are focused on exactly those goals, while the plans on TR seem to be mostly racing focused (which is good, but is not my primary goal).

Anyway, I think I'm rambling now, so I'll stop.

ntnunk

I can see why you'd say that if you're lumping analysis in with training. I guess it's just a different mindset from mine. I don't think of TR as a data collection or analysis tool, simply a training and trainer control tool. I collect every ride, indoors or out, via my Garmin Edge 820, data goes into Garmin Connect and then onwards to Strava, Training Peaks, and Golden Cheetah.