Does anyone understand steps given for elliptical?

LadyLilion

Because, this is weird. Attached you'll see what Fitbit gives me for an elliptical workout. 20 minutes today and yesterday give me different step amounts, and only 10 minutes on Sunday gave me almost double! I don't get it. They are virtually identical.

Today's average heart rate: 93, 18 min Fat Burn and 1 of Cardio (Hey, it's early!)
Yesterdays heart rate: 91, 14 min Fat Burn and 2 min of Cardio
Sunday's heart rate average: 93, 10 min of Fat Burn.

LadyLilion

Let me clarify...it's really the April 2 one that has me stumped. How, if I went half the time, with no higher average heart rate, did it have me going twice as far and burning as many calories, and twice the steps? But also, what's with the 14 minutes of fat burn and 2 minutes of cardio giving me 402 calories over 18 minutes of fat burn and 1 minute of cardio giving me only 172. Do I really get 200+ calories a MINUTE doing cardio? I can't imagine that.

LadyLilion

Actually, let me clarify further - the higher ones, Sunday and Monday, I had ALSO put into MFP. Today's I had NOT input in MFP. Is it possible that the MFP adjustment (408 for 20 minutes and 203 for 10 minutes) makes the Fitbit adjust UP? I had thought, since Fitbit takes more into consideration, like heartrate (I have a Charge 2) it would supersede the MFP number, not the other way around?

So...one simple question instead. Does the MFP make the burn higher than it would be if using Fitbit alone?

heybales

And that is exactly why elliptical is NOT a step-based workout.

Not only are seeing the step impacts not accurate, but the impact from what is seen has no bearing on distance gone, which for step-based devices would be the crux for estimating calorie burn.

But you have a HR-based device - therefore steps are NOT used for calorie burn - but HR is.

That's a better estimate than step-based or database calorie burn from MFP.

How many levels of intensity does MFP have for elliptical?

And how would you know you matched that level?

exactly the problem.

Where are you getting 200+ calories per minute in those figures?

Also - yes - the MFP workouts you enter sync over and REPLACE the Fitbit ones.

So I'm not even going to attempt to explain any of those figures since some are probably from MFP actually.

Oh, those Fat-burning and cardio zones have nothing to do with calorie burn, merely the range your HR was in.
Obviously higher HR burns more calories, but you can't do math with the minutes in a certain zone.

LadyLilion

First, thanks for your response!

Where are you getting 200+ calories per minute in those figures?

On 4/3 I showed 14 minutes of fat burn and 2 mintutes of cardio, the other 4 minutes not recorded (two low) On 4/4 I showed 18 minutes of fat burn and 1 minute of cardio - 1 minute too low to show. So I only had one minute of cardio more on 4/3.

Also - yes - the MFP workouts you enter sync over and REPLACE the Fitbit ones.

So I'm not even going to attempt to explain any of those figures since some are probably from MFP actually.

Actually, no. On 4/4 I didn't put it on MFP and the days I do, the fitbit dashboard shows a second entry with an entirely different number for the MFP entry. (I didn't copy those.) FWIW, I tried putting in the elliptical on MFP on 4/4 (yesterday). MFP gave me 408 - same as it had on 4/3. But Fitbit didn't change and the overall fitbit adjustment dropped dramatically so the total adjustment was 523 for the entire day, regardless of whether I input the workout on MFP or not.

I know elliptical isn't step based...but I just can't figure out why two, 20 minute, workouts on different days show such a dramatic difference in steps and calorie burn when the heart rate wasn't all that different.

My plan was to stop inputting on MFP if it is increasing the calories burned. I don't want to over eat, but I want Fitbit to be accurate and the discrepancy is troubling.

heybales

Is this still first 2 weeks of usage?

HR-based device is still learning your HR, what is resting, where does exercise start, how many workouts.

All that is used in calculations for calorie burn.

Yes, Fitbit should be showing it's Activity Record for a workout - you can edit and add to those.
Any you manually add or that sync over are Workout Records - you can only delete those.

Activity Record reflects what Fitbit originally saw - it's a snapshot. Doesn't change if you update the records, but it's not in the daily stats anymore if that chunk of time is replaced.

Workout Record is the replacement and in the daily stats.

MFP has no intensity levels for elliptical, or a bunch of exercises actually - hence those entries being rather hopeful calorie burns - that your level of intensity happens to match the study that came up with them. You have no idea.

But Fitbit with HR-based calorie burn after a few weeks does. Well, as decent as an HRM can estimate anyway.

Also - the reason why the overall adjustment didn't change - I'll bet MFP never received or applied the final sync from Fitbit, but Fitbit did received MFP's and adjust the figures.

You'd have to examine the time and calories of the last sync that MFP shows on the adjustment details, compared to what Fitbit really had.

Francl27

Yeah I'd say the ones you put on MFP are messed up.

gamespriteicon

LadyLilion wrote: »

Actually, let me clarify further - the higher ones, Sunday and Monday, I had ALSO put into MFP. Today's I had NOT input in MFP. Is it possible that the MFP adjustment (408 for 20 minutes and 203 for 10 minutes) makes the Fitbit adjust UP? I had thought, since Fitbit takes more into consideration, like heartrate (I have a Charge 2) it would supersede the MFP number, not the other way around?

So...one simple question instead. Does the MFP make the burn higher than it would be if using Fitbit alone?

If you delet the MPF record does it look right on FitBit? Maybe the start and end time you used is off. I've done that when putting exercises from fitbit to MFP for MPF challenges.

LadyLilion

gamespriteicon wrote: »

If you delet the MPF record does it look right on FitBit? Maybe the start and end time you used is off. I've done that when putting exercises from fitbit to MFP for MPF challenges.

Since posting this thread, I have simply decided to quit putting exercise in the MFP records. I'd rather eat less anyway, though I don't think that actually changes overall. What I see is still odd, but it's obvious that MFP was changing something.

Today, 6:25AM Elliptical 594 (steps) 0.22 miles 20:13 262 cals
Apr 6, 6:28AM Elliptical 367 0.13 miles 20:22 164 cals
Apr 5, 6:28AM Elliptical 707 0.24 miles 20:23 158 cals
Apr 4, 6:27AM Elliptical 555 0.17 miles 20:02 172 cals

Today it gave me nearly 100 more calories burned. Now...I did hit "peak" for several minutes on the HR, so I assume that did it. Not sure what causes the "steps" difference in the others, which are much more uniform on HR. Beats me why April 6 shows 367 steps and April 5 shows 707 steps HR was almost exactly the same - but since the calories are the important thing and that's fairly uniform, I guess I just don't care.

As opposed to when I logged into MFP things do seem inflated...certainly the calorie burn.: Start times were right, but MFP wouldn't let me put in the extra seconds.

Apr 3, 6:29AM Elliptical 748 0.21 miles 20:13 402 cals
Apr 3, 6:29AM Elliptical Trainer (MyFitnessPal) 1,398 N/A 20:00 408 cals

Mar 30, 6:28AM Elliptical 851 0.29 miles 20:22 402 cals
Mar 30, 6:28AM Elliptical Trainer (MyFitnessPal) 1,603 N/A 20:00 415 cals

Deleting them doesn't seem to have any overall effect on the total daily "exercise calories earned", but if I delete the MFP entry, the activity record changes dramatically with respect to the calories. Here's the same March 30, entry after deleting MFP.

Mar 30, 6:28AM Elliptical 851 0.29 miles 20:22 193 cals

So yeah. It's interesting. But I guess it ultimately doesn't matter. lol All I really care about is losing weight and getting healthier. Thanks folks.

heybales

Not logging the workouts may or may not give you less adjustment.

Totally depends if MFP was giving more calories for the workout from the database than Fitbit was giving being on you.

BTW - I'd totally ignore the steps and distance on ANYthing non-step based, which elliptical is. Spinning, rowing, lifting, ect. Lifting should be manually logged too.

Steps and distance on non-step-based workouts isn't useful info in the least. You change your form on doing elliptical slightly, you can get more impacts, harder, and that makes for more distance. Do it really smooth, and steps won't all be seen. Dance motion doing it, more steps than actually done.

Just not useful data to glean anything from.
It would be like trying to get your car's trip mpg figure from a partial tank fillup, miles, and tire air pressure. Just not the right info.

Calorie count and time, and avgHR (since it is HR-based calorie burn) - those are the meaningful figures.

And that last Mar 30 entry with no MFP workout messing up the works - that's more realistic for a 20 min workout calorie burn 193.

I'm going to have to test that effect - it used to be the Activity record, if created first, was a snapshot of the stats for the chunk of time. And if it came from the device button press, it was created first.
If you made a manual workout entry, the Activity record didn't change.

Actually, I did that exactly yesterday, and it did not change the Activity Record, which sits there and shows the original Fitbit stats (which were surprisingly close to the GPS distance and HRM calorie burn).

So perhaps the device is no longer making a snapshot Activity Record, but a Workout Record, or they have a term for a new one perhaps.

Or you created the MFP workout and it synced over before the Activity Record synced from the device/phone to your account.

But you have proven that your workout entered in MFP that synced over - was effecting the Activity Record (or whatever it's called now) the device caused to be made.

But - there is another consideration on the way things at least used to work.
At some point, your per minute steps and data is not retained, merely totals for the day, and the records during the day.
So messing with data on the 30th at this point may not be giving normal results.

Did the same effect happen on workout the day before when you deleted MFP workout?

LadyLilion

heybales wrote: »

Did the same effect happen on workout the day before when you deleted MFP workout?

I don't recall 100%...but I think it did have the same effect.