Capital Punishment

soldier4242

Ariel Castro has finally been offered a plea bargain. He kept women captive in his house for extended periods of time. At least one of his victims spend an entire decade trapped in his house(details in the story below). Ariel Castro is a wretched monster and his actions are untenable. If anyone is ever to be in favor of capital punishment this is definitely a case where it should be used.

Do you think that justice is still served if we do not execute this man?

If your answer is yes, do you think that a disservice is being done to the victims and their families by offering him a plea?

If you are completely against capital punishment does that include this guy?
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A plea deal has been offered to the man accused of kidnapping three Cleveland women and raping them repeatedly while he held them in captivity at his home during the past decade, according to a Cleveland TV station.

If Ariel Castro, 53, of Cleveland accepts the deal, he would avoid the death penalty, according to a report by WKYC-TV in Cleveland. The deal, however, has not been finalized. The station reports a hearing, during which Castro would accept the offer, was to be held on Friday.

Maria Russo, Cuyahoga County Prosecutor Timothy McGinty’s spokeswoman, said she could not confirm if a formal deal had been offered to Castro.

Phone calls to Castro’s defense attorneys were not immediately returned. A spokeswoman for Common Pleas Court Judge Michael Russo said a hearing had not yet been scheduled for Friday.

Prosecutors and defense attorneys met in Russo’s courtroom on Wednesday and said they were working toward a plea deal.

A trial for Castro is scheduled for Aug. 5. He has pleaded not guilty to 977 charges, including murder, rape and kidnapping. According to the indictments, he is accused of beating and starving one of the women to force her to miscarry — a charge that could lead to the death penalty.

The women — Gina DeJesus, 23, Michelle Knight, 32, and Amanda Berry, 27 — were freed from Castro’s home on the west side of Cleveland on May 6, along with Berry’s 6-year-old daughter, who was fathered by Castro during her captivity.

Story by Jeff Stacklin for Yahoo news
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Azdak

I'm not going into detail, since most capital punishment arguments are as tedious as they are predictable.

But, whether you are for or against, basing law on individual incidents is bad reasoning, bad legislation and bad governing. The arguments for and against capital punishment were valid whether or not this incident took place. It may rouse emotions, but it doesn't affect the general discussion one bit. Laws are made for the benefit of society as a whole, not for or against one individual.

As far as the "plea" deal goes, whether it is right or wrong depends on the circumstances. If such a plea is being offered, it would be for a significant reason, that I think should be heard before trying to judge whether it is right or wrong.

soldier4242

I hear you. I am really torn on this particular issue. On a philisophical level I can't condone the act of killing a person by vote. Then a crime like this one is committed and I can totally understand why it can be seen as necessary. I am interested in what people have to say.

tigerblood78

I say a death sentence for him is getting off easy. I think he should be chained in a dungeon where sick twisted people rape him whenever they please for ten years........then kill him.

soldier4242

So that would fall in to the "eye for an eye" category of punishment. I can see why people are drawn to that way of thinking but I don't think it is the right way of doing things. On the practical side that kind of punishment would be a cruel and unusual punishment which is against the 8th amendment. In the bigger picture it would mean out justice system would be nothing more than a revenge system.

tigerblood78

So that would fall in to the "eye for an eye" category of punishment. I can see why people are drawn to that way of thinking but I don't think it is the right way of doing things. On the practical side that kind of punishment would be a cruel and unusual punishment which is against the 8th amendment. In the bigger picture it would mean out justice system would be nothing more than a revenge system.

Ok....so anwer this. A grown man gets caught molesting children. He is sentenced to twenty years in prison. Punishment fit the crime in your eyes?

k8blujay2

I'm not quite sure why he would get the death penalty for this anyway... I thought the death penalty was usually reserved for those that commit heinous murders... or maybe I just don't pay that much attention because in my State we have the express lane.

soldier4242

Ok....so anwer this. A grown man gets caught molesting children. He is sentenced to twenty years in prison. Punishment fit the crime in your eyes?

I don't think that the appropriate punishment for our court system to impose is state sponsored raping of the criminal if that is what you are asking. I would think that 20 years in prison is a pretty darn good start at least.

I'm not quite sure why he would get the death penalty for this anyway... I thought the death penalty was usually reserved for those that commit heinous murders... or maybe I just don't pay that much attention because in my State we have the express lane.

The reason the death penalty became a real possibility in this case is because one of his victims became pregnant as a result of his repeated rapes. So he dehydrated her and beat her for the express purpose of killing the child. Since this horrible act was done after the first trimester there are plenty of legal precedence to make a death penalty charge stick. She was obviously pregnant so it was abundantly clear what he was trying to do.That is why he went ahead and took the plea bargain and he will be spending the rest of his life in prison.

maab_connor

i think that at a certain point, you stop being a human being and cross the line into being a monster. i have no problem w/ our system giving monsters the death penalty.

k8blujay2

The reason the death penalty became a real possibility in this case is because one of his victims became pregnant as a result of his repeated rapes. So he dehydrated her and beat her for the express purpose of killing the child. Since this horrible act was done after the first trimester there are plenty of legal precedence to make a death penalty charge stick. She was obviously pregnant so it was abundantly clear what he was trying to do.That is why he went ahead and took the plea bargain and he will be spending the rest of his life in prison.

I see! I did not know that.. but I have only had minimal attention paid to that story as we have enough tragedy happening in our own backyard...

Well if it were up to me, then castration would be on the table... but that's just because I find it to be more effective and cheaper than having to worry about sexual devients like this guy walking around anywhere... But as far as the death penalty is concerned... I'm sure it won't take long before he wishes he were dead... from what I understand guys in prison don't take kindly to guys like that.

tigerblood78

Ok....so anwer this. A grown man gets caught molesting children. He is sentenced to twenty years in prison. Punishment fit the crime in your eyes?

I don't think that the appropriate punishment for our court system to impose is state sponsored raping of the criminal if that is what you are asking. I would think that 20 years in prison is a pretty darn good start at least.

I'll agree to disagree. A child who is molested is head phucked for life. 20 years in prison isn't close to being justice in my eyes. Some people are broken monsters and can't be fixed. A bullet to the back of the head is the solution.

Nikki31104

The reason the death penalty became a real possibility in this case is because one of his victims became pregnant as a result of his repeated rapes. So he dehydrated her and beat her for the express purpose of killing the child. Since this horrible act was done after the first trimester there are plenty of legal precedence to make a death penalty charge stick. She was obviously pregnant so it was abundantly clear what he was trying to do.That is why he went ahead and took the plea bargain and he will be spending the rest of his life in prison.

I see! I did not know that.. but I have only had minimal attention paid to that story as we have enough tragedy happening in our own backyard...

Well if it were up to me, then castration would be on the table... but that's just because I find it to be more effective and cheaper than having to worry about sexual devients like this guy walking around anywhere... But as far as the death penalty is concerned... I'm sure it won't take long before he wishes he were dead... from what I understand guys in prison don't take kindly to guys like that.

With a number of sex offenders I don't think castration will work. It isn't about the sex it is about the power. I think if they were castrated they would find a different way of inflicting pain.

I also don't agree with the death penalty. I think it is an easy way out for these criminals. Give them life in prison and let them live the rest of their lives with nothing to do except think about what they did. Plus I am sure most people will come into contact with someone who is even more sick and twisted than they are.

clydethecat

its easy to get caught up in the emotion of the case. i think what he did has no words for how horrible it was. its unconscionable. hes a monster. hes worse than a monster. same with people that prey on children. they haven't invented the word horrible enough to describe them.

that being said. the state should not have the power to kill its citizens. yes, there are a lot of reasons for the death penalty. but for me it comes down to the state having that kind of power. too much corruption, too many bad prosecutions. its a horribly flawed system. so to let the state kill people on top of it all, no, too much power.

soldier4242

Due to the number of cases that were overturned by DNA evidence one could build a sound argument for the abolition of the death penalty simply by pointing out the tragedy of state sponsored murder for an innocent person.

You point out an objection here that I think is worthy of discussion. When people discuss environmental issues or tax laws people are quick to point out the importance of limiting the governments power over our money and private businesses. Somehow this is often forgotten when we talk about the governments right to end our lives. I think that we like to delude ourselves in to believing that this issue could never touch us or anyone close to us.

I just can't seem to shake the feeling that this guy does deserve to die. I am so conflicted on this one. On one level I want to make sure that filth like Areil Castro are never capable of robbing innocent people of their lives again but on the other hand I think of the long road what could happen if it becomes too easy for the government to take a human life.

Grimmerick

In this case for me, life in prison in solitary confinement. I would also take it a step further and remove all freedoms. No books, no tv, no contact with the outside world, maybe one window too high to even see out of. Just bland food with no seasoning and water. Make his life and punishment feel as long as possible.

rml_16

I think only the victims and their families can say whether it was a disservice, though I would bet the prosecutors consulted them before offering a deal. This saves the victims having to face him in court and he isn't getting out. Prison is not a happy place.

I grew up in a prison town. My father worked at a maximum security prison for many years (just retired) and they built a new one when I was 12 and we toured it before they opened it. It was not a place I would want to spend the rest of my life. And that was without other prisoners lurking around. lol

I'm not against the death penalty and I wouldn't have an issue with it being used in this case. But it's not my place to say whether this was the right decision, since I am not one of his victims. If they're happy with it, I am.

SwannySez

Capital Punishment is a joke. If we really want it to act as a deterrent then it should be publicized. It should be carried out at a federal level and and should be broadcast at a specific time every week and it should take voer the airways and be the only thing that people can watch. It should not be sensationalized in any way shape or form. The criminal should not be given any time to make any statement and the horror of their death should be broadcast in intimate detail. For this purpose, I would suggest that the electric chair be used exclusively. I would suggest multiple cameras and multiple angles and a split screen shot.

The charges would be read in a monotone by a non-descript announcer and the sentence would be carried out. There would be no internviews, not shots of the crowd, nothing but the death of a criminal.

If capital punishment is not meant to act as a deterrent, then why would it be used at all? The expense alone associated with it (court costs, legal fees, appeals etc.) would argue against its use simply as punishment. For that kind of investment the state has to expect that there is some return and that return I would argue is deterrence.

Otherwise, I think it's a waste of money and time.

Edit: Oops, I forgot to answer the OP's question! I don't think that it's appropriate in this case. While his actions were depraved and cruel, I would argue that no one was murdered here despite the loss of the fetus.

soldier4242

I do not see why the death penalty would have to be publicized in such a way to act as a deterrent. Could you explain this?

KANGOOJUMPS

he should be dead.,

SwannySez

I do not see why the death penalty would have to be publicized in such a way to act as a deterrent. Could you explain this?

It's all well and good to talk about death, but to watch someone die? Particularly in such a grisly way as electrocution? Seeing that reality presented in a way that does not afford them any notoriety and depticts the horrific process of death in a documentary fashion, would, I believe act as a more stark deterrent than the simple idea of execution.

A picture is worth a thousand words and I would argue that even the worst wannabe thugs would not want the last image people see of them to be them pissing and ****ting themselves and their body cooks from the inside out.

soldier4242

What would actually happen is if this barbarity were tolerated long enough is it would become part of the zeitgeist. We would grow used to the idea of watching a fellow human electrocuted in a chair. Eventually some people would get to the point where they would think nothing of it.

Those that argued against it would be seen as radicals.

It would become traditional.

It would turn our world in the kind of place that I would not want to live.

Generations of children would grow up in this world thinking of killing a simple and dispassionate thing to do.

rml_16

What would actually happen is if this barbarity were tolerated long enough is it would become part of the zeitgeist. We would grow used to the idea of watching a fellow human electrocuted in a chair. Eventually some people would get to the point where they would think nothing of it.

Those that argued against it would be seen as radicals.

It would become traditional.

It would turn our world in the kind of place that I would not want to live.

Generations of children would grow up in this world thinking of killing a simple and dispassionate thing to do.

I think I agree with you. Executions were public for a long time in human history, losing fingers, hands, whatever -- all common punishments for crimes. People still committed crimes.

I don't think the death penalty is much of a detterant (sp?) and I don't think it would be no matter what. But I do think there are certain crimes so heinous that the world is better off if that person ceases to be alive in it (like Charles Manson). I do have a problem with the fact that there have been innocent people put to death. Our system is good, but it is imperfect and that gives me pause.

I support the death penalty for those who are without a doubt guilty, but we're humans and we something judge people that harshly and it turns out to be wrong. That frightens me.

SwannySez

Meh. I disagree. I think that there is a way to do it that manages to keep it from becoming common place, if only to execute some people randomly for smaller crimes so that no one know for sure exactly what crimes with get the executed. It would be like a lottery above a certain level of crime and despite the sentence, they would still be available to be executed live on Friday Night Lights.

soldier4242

I see we have left the realm of serious discussion and entered the realm of sarcasm. In the spirit of this fact I think we could take a page for George Carlon's book and use the guillotine instead of the electric chair.

We could put it at the top of a large hill and the head would roll down a hill in to a one of 5 numbered holes and people could bet on which hole they think it will be. The government would get a portion of all the proceeds and the money could be funneled in to health care and education other things which would help society as a whole.

_Timmeh_

Yea the plea sucks but......what would the case have been like?
Would those girls, or well now ladies, have to go to court and testify? Relive the horror?

Me thinks he'll get his due in prison anyway.....know what I mean