Duplicate entries from MyFitnessPal

cecekay19

Hi all,

I have had a Charge HR for a couple of weeks. It's ok, I think it's useful to some extent and helps a little with motivation.

I often log my runs/walks with MapMyFitness, which syncs over to MyFitnessPal and thus into Fitbit. I have been pressing the exercise button for these runs, so the workout is being logged twice. I had been deleting the duplicate entry after seeing the Fitbit number for the workout. But I observed that the calorie count changed once the duplicate entry from MyFitnessPal was changed, and that was confusing to me as to why it would do that. Dilemma! (I also noticed that Fitbit tends to truncate the minutes whereas MFP seems to round up, which may account for some of the formula differences.)

So here is my question: Should I just ignore it and leave both entries in Fitbit or should I delete the Fitbit entry instead of the edited MyFitnessPal entry?

SezxyStef

I let fitbit log for me.

I use mapmyfitness too to track some stuff but I don't have it sync'd with anything.

My fitbit I use to track my exercise and let it do it's thing...that is the whole purpose of the tracker.

heybales

They are not duplicate entries that effect calorie totals.

From the button press on device (or manually entered or corrected) is an Activity Record.
It is merely a snapshot of the Fitbit stats during that chunk of time.
You can edit these - add notes, change the name for easier review, ect.

The sync from MFP or other 2rd party, or manually entered, is a Workout Record.
That replaces the Fitbit stats for the chunk of time in the daily totals.
You can only delete it, not edit it.
It will not though change the Activity Record snapshot, which is like a picture.

So while it appears you have 2 entries that could effect daily calories - you don't.

Also - Fitbit has no function for adding workout totals on top of what is there.
It only has a process for a replacement method.

So even if you had say MMF sync to MFP and Fitbit and Strava directly, and then from Strava to Fitbit again - only the last entry synced in is replacing the stats for the chunk of time that would be the one that counts.

And if the device created Activity Record was there first (which it usually is) - it could contain different data which is NOT double counted.

(I say usually, if you did a Strava tracked workout and finished it, it could sync over to Fitbit before the device workout synced to your account. In which case the Activity Record would be the Strava stats, not the original Fitbit stats. Still not double counted though.)

Now, if 2 workout entries show up on MFP - it will allow doubling calories and effecting totals that math are done with. Like if you manually logged what MMF synced in.

So while you could have the MMF workout with calories, and a Fitbit calorie adjustment that you know contains those calories too (in a round about way) - the math subtracts the MFP workout anyway.
So not doubling there either.

But to the great point above - is there a reason why you want MMF to be logging workouts too?
I track outside Fitbit too, better logs. But I manually correct Fitbit instead of syncing in. So understood if that is reason.

cecekay19

I've been using it because I like the UI for activity when I run, walk, ride. I like seeing the route, time, etc. in the activity feed, and the dashboard. Plus there are a couple of challenges I joined that I like. I don't actually log gym workouts into MMF except in unusual circumstances. I actually have the same problem with other apps that sync into MFP, like Sworkit and Nike+ Training club.

But having a touch of OCD, I was making the activity record in Fitbit and then taking that information to edit the info in MFP so it would re-sync with the data from Fitbit edited into place, but what I was finding was that when I do that, the Fitbit Activity Record data changed too.

I get the feeling, though, that I should consider not manually making the activity record and just let Fitbit figure it out and do its own calorie adjustments. Another part of me is warning me to not overthink this stuff and just ignore the issue - allow the duplicates (except fixing the time length since Fitbit seems to truncate and MFP rounds up minutes).

heybales

If truly an Activity Record - the data doesn't change on subsequent syncs of workouts from other sites. I just tested it again to confirm no flakiness.

Now, I'm using terms they used for web account items - I'm not sure if they still call it the same thing if accessed through the app.

But an Activity Record you can give it whatever name you want - you provide start and end times (not duration), and notes - no miles, no calories.
If the device creates one - you can edit the start time if it didn't start up auto-record early enough, or put notes in it.

If what you are entering gives options for distance and calories and uses duration - that's a Workout Record.

Notice this difference in the log file:



Did the Activity Record first, it has the expanded view and details showing, which are much better than the View Details available on the Workout Record which is limited.

And it's nice to create one to see the snapshot of the original Fitbit stats, and name it something that allows reviewing and comparing easy.

Of course while it's exercise log is better than MFP's exercise diary - I agree MMF is even better than both.

cecekay19

Hi heybales, thanks for answering. It's an activity record, I cannot edit the calories for it, only the name. Here's the routine: I will run or whatever, press the button to start a record and start MMF. Finish the run, stop MMF and press the button again. Record saves first to MMF, and I think MMF syncs to MFP and MFP then syncs to Fitbit. The workout record usually comes in second, after MFP syncs to Fitbit.

I hadn't bothered to delete the duplicate entries this week, so here is the record, preserved.
I don't normally look at this on the web and didn't realize some things. I just noticed that the Fitbit workout durations in the log are exact to the second, whereas MFP just rounds up. That probably accounts for a chunk of the calorie difference between the two. The record of each workout in MMF is down to the second, but editing that won't make a difference since MFP rounds up and MMF and Fitbit don't sync directly across like that. So what I would do is edit the MFP entry and then delete the Fitbit entry, but then something seemed weird when I got back over to Fitbit.

I have edited the post-run cooldown walk from yesterday at 8:19am (the first two entries) to use Fitbit's numbers and the Fitbit calorie calculation went up.


So I don't know what to do, really. I suppose I should just delete the MFP entry if I want to keep it clean.

heybales

Except you are trusting the MFP entry, which is really the MMF estimate - more and want it to update the calorie stats.

Now as shown, there is enough to be worthwile changing it.

The difference is likely walking at exercise pace and distance being a tad off, compared to walking at your average daily pace and distance perhaps being dead on.
For the amount of daily time walking vs exercise time walking - you do desire the daily to be most correct.

And your method takes care of the exercise pace.

But - your device seems to be sending generic Workout Record to your account, not an Activity Record.

Notice on mine - distance that Fitbit saw is included in the snapshot.

The View Details button is used on Workout Records, not Activity Records. And workouts have seconds, Activity Records don't, because it goes by start and end time without seconds available.

I'm not sure why the device would be sending that format. Very strange.

Is the pen symbol mean you could change the name, or all the stats?

What device is this, perhaps a few models do it differently for now.

I know when you used the Fitbit app's GPS ability to track a route and get mileage (rather than step calculated) - that came across as a Workout then.

cecekay19

I wanted to use Fitbit's calorie estimate for the work but keep the log in the MFP diary. I want to trust Fitbit more, but stick with MMF/MFP.

It is a Charge HR, a gift from a family member who replaced an old Fitbit for a newer model. This is my first wearable, so it's all still pretty new to me. It seems to be a workout record, yes. I can change the name of the workout but I can't change any of the stats (time, etc.). So I like to think it's getting a snapshot of the information that is immutable, but then it changes once I fix the MFP log to use Fitbit's data, so... not so immutable? I'm confused, here.

heybales

And what's strange is that even a workout record (like the MFP synced entry) - shouldn't change the stats based on something else changing.

I'm wondering if the records synced from device are being given a new type now, different than prior method.

But even with those - people mention changing the start time to reflect the device starting the auto-workout late compared to when it really started, and seeing the increased steps/calories. So they are correcting an Activity Record.

But perhaps those newer devices do tell the app to create an Activity Record.
Your device telling app to create a 3rd type. Perhaps it was used briefly and they stopped doing it on newer ones that attempt to auto-categorize the workout, and auto-start it.

Very strange, I got no answer based on my testing, and what I hear others doing.

I would not fix the MFP workout that came from MMF though, with Fitbit calorie burn.
It's just going back to Fitbit to replace the actual per min stats with a block of calorie burn.

If not wanting to use the MMF calorie burn to replace Fitbit ultimately - I'd unsync MMF from MFP.
Just make a wall post about your workout - with more info then a synced or manually entered workout would give anyway.

That way there is only showing in Fitbit the activity record for you to review later for comparing to see if improvement.

If you do trust the MMF calorie burn more, then keep as is, and either delete or don't create the Fitbit records.
MMF is your review of workouts for compare, don't need Fitbit to do that then.

cecekay19

MMF is not really the problem. MMF's step count is wildly over what Fitbit says but that isn't showing up in the workout information in MFP. MMF's step count is not a part of the calculations, as far as I can see. MFP is gathering the step data from Fitbit just as I set it in the preferences, but I think that, because of how it rounds time, the differences are slight.

I am finding that the calculations are close enough for me to not be overly concerned about the calorie count between the two (MFP and Fitbit), but Fitbit tends to count fewer calories so that is the bias I'd prefer. I think that I am going to just leave the duplicate, though, since this is acting so strangely.

heybales

Ya, accuracy of step count on phones can be problematic.
And if they attempt to do the same thing Fitbit is doing (does MMF have a stride length figure?), then their distance estimate is the basis for calories.
Or the GPS route is, which can be better.

Yes the full minute compared to seconds can be decent difference sometimes.

Very strange.

cecekay19

MMF doesn't calculate stride length by itself, I think it relies on the accelerometer and gps info to count. But there is support for devices that capture stride length, and the Charge HR doesn't have that technology.

You know, it's funny... the Charge HR does calculate the distance but for some reason it's not transferring to the log. When I finish a run, it does tell me the distance it thinks I went but it's not being recorded in the workout record. On the Fitbit dashboard I can see how far it thinks I've gone for the day but not for the individual workout. Strange.

heybales

That is messed up - because it is still step-based and records distance as you noted.

You should be able to look at details and see HR and step and pace info in that record.

And I know I've been in discussions about Charge HR and distance and correcting stride length - and it gave the distance and steps for a workout.

Very strange.

I'd suggest unsyncing MFP from Fitbit for a day, and anything else synced to Fitbit.
See how the whole thing is done with nothing else syncing in.

You'll want to disconnect from MFP side, and revoke from Fitbit side. I'd close both apps prior to doing that, and use the web accounts to do it.

After the day, connect back up.

That way if something flakey is going on - you can show Fitbit that it's this day.

cecekay19

I'll try that tomorrow and see what's up.

cecekay19

Ok, I had forgotten to unsync but I did it. Today I ran and did the same thing: pressed the button on the Fitbit to start the activity when I started my run. It's recording as a workout and not keeping track of my distance, even though it kept steps and is telling me how many miles it thinks I have put in for the day on the dashboard. Maybe it is particular to this model of Fitbit... or maybe I should let it try to detect the activity on its own. I think I will try that, although I don't quite trust it to get the start time correct. We'll see.

heybales

That start time is exactly when I hear of ones with the auto-detect models making adjustments to the start time, to earlier than it decided.

That is so odd.

The option in the MFP app for source of steps - it is set to Fitbit?

Fitbit app, is it set to pull GPS within the app only? (that was an early option, not sure if still there)

I'm actually afraid to run the app again. Last time I did, after years of no syning issues at all, I started getting a specific one that won't stop - and has MFP techs confused.
The time stamp coming in data feed from Fitbit (they claim) is off 1 hour - though both accounts are set to same time zone, and app was too when running, and phone certainly is.

elliej

Hi sorry to jump in but I am also a new user and have noticed that if I log a run on MFP it adds steps to my goal, calories burnt and also minutes exercised on Fitbit app, so it definitely is doublecounting... right? But I also don't think when I run (treadmill) I'm getting accurate details from fitbit - it's giving my distance at the end of the day quite low. I ran 5k on the treadmill and was still only given 8.5k for my whole day even though I clocked over 15000 steps - bit baffled

heybales

Which Fitbit are you using?

When you say log a run on MFP, do you mean the app and using it to time a workout and count steps?
Or merely using the database and manually picking a pace, entering in start time, and duration time, and seeing the given calorie burn?

The problem is the only info on workouts that go over to Fitbit is workout name, which is mere text, not some type that Fitbit recognizes, and start time and duration, and calorie burn.
Steps isn't even part of it.

No - it's not double counting - Fitbit can ONLY do a replace function, not an add function.
So whatever data is there - is replaced by whatever syncs in or is manually added later.
Last synced or added is what counts to the day's totals - everything else you can view with different stats for same chunk of time, was replaced.

Treadmills must be calibrated regularly for distance to be accurate - when was the last time the one you used was done?

15000 steps doesn't mean some automatic distance.
Fitbit estimates the distance of each step from the impact seen compared to the impact expected.
So you could easily have a ton of steps that are short daily activity - and not a lot of distance.

But it also could mean it didn't see accurate impact for a lot of those steps - like shopping usually misses a lot of steps pushing a cart, but it's also possible to see them, but because the impact is muffled with wrist device near card handle, distance could be estimated very short.

elliej

Thanks @heybales that's pretty handy, I use a fitbit charge hr.

I choose the pace and time for 'workouts' on my run - is this not the only way to log exercise on MFP?

I don't know the last time the gym treadmills were calibrated, that's a good point, also I didn't really think about what I was doing with my arms/wrist.

I know 15000 isn't an automatic distance but today I went on a walk and at 17000 am showing as 11km - I think my stride length maybe needs amending as I'm only 5'3

heybales

It bases stride length calc on gender and height, and as we've all seen, some can have long legs short torso, or opposite.
Totally throws that calc off.

So yes, a walk on known distance track for instance will allow correcting the walking stride length.
As long as it's done an average daily pace - not exercise pace - not grocery store shuffle - both extremes that will throw off distance and calorie burn for the majority of the day. It would be better to have your 1 hr walk say under-estimated than your entire day of activity over-estimated.
Running is it's own thing, so as accurate of average pace is good, it'll adjust up and down from there.

With the Fitbit, when you logged that workout on MFP - that workout went to Fitbit and replaced that chunk of time with stats from MFP.

And while the database entry can be very accurate IF you totally nailed that pace the entire time - you can also get a better result manually logging on Fitbit's database if it does have the distance wrong for instance straight from the device (which could be the case).

While either your manually logged Fitbit workout, or Fitbit activity, won't show up on MFP as a workout to show on your wall for ones to see - a note put on your wall with more details of the workout is usually more interesting anyway than an official logging with no details except pace and calorie burn.

cecekay19

So, I disconnected from MFP and I have stayed disconnected until I could run again. I used the auto-detect this time and the Fitbit picked up the activity, just a little bit after it started. I can only guess about 30 seconds behind, perhaps. It caught the whole time I ran and cooled down, but could not separate when I ran from when I stopped and walked.

I wasn't able to edit the start time of the run, and it did not keep the distance. I think that this is probably particular to the Charge HR, and probably because it does not have GPS like the Charge 2, and so there is no option to grab GPS data with the data from the Fitbit. I would have to run and use Fitbit as my run tracker on my phone, instead of or along with MapMyFitness. Anyhow. I think I am going to keep them separated. I am using the Fitbit for more accurate calorie burn reporting anyway in MFP and so I just edit that in MFP. I suppose the calorie adjustment would work just as well but I think that I will have better results in maintaining my weight by not having the calories from extra steps during the day being accounted for in my exercise calories burned. Or if there is a way to skip the calorie adjustment that would be great.

Previously, I had Fitbit as the source of steps in MFP and I think that is why the calorie counts were so close. Without it, the calorie count has been wildly higher.

heybales

Those daily steps which could increase calories above what MFP estimated from your guess of activity level - could be useful though.

I'd suggest you keep an eye on non-exercise days, just normal average daily activity calorie burn, divide by your MFP given BMR, and that activity multiplier should determine the MFP activity level to use.

It was going to correct itself - no need to miss out on increased accuracy because of some strange way it's doing things.

That will help you to apply the life lesson.

You do more you eat more.
You do less you eat less.

As seasons change you can adjust as needed.

Sedentary is 1.25 x BMR
Lightly Active - 1.4
1.6
1.8

Very true reason why it doesn't work right probably, phone being assigned to MMF.

cecekay19

Yeah, I was just trying to ignore the extra calorie burn to help me maintain a deficit. I will have to do a better job of not eating back those calories.

heybales

MFP puts a deficit in already if you selected a weight loss goal rather than maintenance goal.

Bigger isn't better for weight lost - rarely gained fast, attempting to lose fast is one of the major reasons for majority to fail to maintain once they have lost weight.

So it could be that right now that extra deficit you are causing by not applying life lesson doesn't matter because you have lots to lose - but later that will come back to bite you if you continue to attempt it when you have little to lose.

If you know enough about all the ins and outs of why, perhaps a reasonable risk to you.
If you don't know - suggest not a good idea.

cecekay19

I set a custom calorie amount (1400) for a modest weight loss goal, as I actually don't have a lot to lose. I have already hit my first weight loss goal and am now looking at a modest extension, another 5 or so pounds. My problem is that I like to eat a lot and the extra calories that are reported when the adjustment goes from negative to positive are what I want to avoid.

heybales

That is the case where you need to disconnect them - because those adjustments will mess things up.

Some people will set a custom eating goal that is not the normal 250,500,750,1000 block deficit - and they still want adjustments when they do more like exercise, in which case syncing is still beneficial.
Problem is the adjustment is based not on eating goal, but what MFP thinks you'll burn.

So even in those cases - disconnect is usually easier.

Good job on being down to final 5!