Challenges -
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Out_of_Bubblegum
Posts: 2,220 Member
I'm sure everyone has heard of them, or maybe even heard stories from people they know, or if you teach for long enough, you may have even been challenged yourself... (I have been challenged verbally several times, only once did someone actually attempt to follow through on it).
I just learned that my instructor was challenged a recently by one of his adult black belt students, in front of a class nonetheless....
I was really shocked to hear it, as we have always had a very respectful organization, with a strong sense of honor, and a very low tolerance for this kind of behavior.
My instructor is one that never trains in front of other students (with very few exceptions - I have had the privilege to train along side him occasionally), but trains very hard behind the scenes - he has more technique and power than most would believe, as his technique looks so relaxed it appears almost "casual". A more critical eye would see that what comes off looking a bit soft is a level of comfort and fluidity and relaxation throughout the technique that is off the charts that results in very deceptive speed and power.
Long story short - this guy got pretty seriously injured as a result of the challenge... and is no longer a student. My instructor lost a few other students as well - which is really too bad - but from what I understand, there wasn't any good options open to him.
I just learned that my instructor was challenged a recently by one of his adult black belt students, in front of a class nonetheless....
I was really shocked to hear it, as we have always had a very respectful organization, with a strong sense of honor, and a very low tolerance for this kind of behavior.
My instructor is one that never trains in front of other students (with very few exceptions - I have had the privilege to train along side him occasionally), but trains very hard behind the scenes - he has more technique and power than most would believe, as his technique looks so relaxed it appears almost "casual". A more critical eye would see that what comes off looking a bit soft is a level of comfort and fluidity and relaxation throughout the technique that is off the charts that results in very deceptive speed and power.
Long story short - this guy got pretty seriously injured as a result of the challenge... and is no longer a student. My instructor lost a few other students as well - which is really too bad - but from what I understand, there wasn't any good options open to him.
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I guess it makes sense that a student might want to test his skill against his teacher, but that must have put your instructor in a really hard place.
I'm lol'ing at the idea of going up against my Sensei. He's 73 and scheduled for a hip replacement, but he could still have me on the mat in two seconds!
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I thought that only happened in cartoons. Wow. It sounds like it was malicious. What could they have possibly hoped to accomplish?
Our grandmaster is 58 but im sure he could knock me out before I could blink. My instructor is just crazy which makes him dangerous.
Im going to dare my class mate to challenge the instructor tonight lol.1 -
I agree, it does sound malicious. It doesn't sound like the student or the others that left really learned anything from the experience. That's really sad they put that much effort into their skill without taking away the respect, honor and discipline parts of it.
(assuming the student had been at it long enough to be at a skill level to think they could challenge the instructor)0 -
Geocitiesuser wrote: »I thought that only happened in cartoons. Wow. It sounds like it was malicious. What could they have possibly hoped to accomplish?
Our grandmaster is 58 but im sure he could knock me out before I could blink. My instructor is just crazy which makes him dangerous.
Im going to dare my class mate to challenge the instructor tonight lol.
It's definitely a thing.. Go back 30 years, and challenges were more common - though we're talking more between schools than within the family. Extremely rare to happen from student to instructor.. that's never really ok
I had one once when I was a new instructor - I'd been teaching maybe for a year when one of my colored belt students started making jokes about "challenging the master" on his 2nd day sparring. I go very easy when teaching people to spar, because I want it to be fun for them and new people sparring can be a recipe for injury, so I try to keep everyone safe until they learn how to have a little control - maybe he thought I just sucked or something.... I don't know.
Anyway, he started trying to pull off some crazy stuff we never teach in class, and ramping up the contact, and I warn him that he needs to stick to the curriculum or someone is going to get hurt... Rather than a respectful "yes sir" he quips something smart-*kitten* and attempts a superman punch... so I step back out of range, timed his landing, and kicked him in the nose... not hard enough to break it, but enough to bloody him and send the message that this would NOT be tolerated.
He walked out of class and I never saw him again.
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Another...
I didn't see, but saw the results of someone challenging one of my first instructors.. I was a green belt, and our instructor asked several of us to come visit a local club that was just getting started - to bolster the class up and add some experienced students to the mix until they built up some. This was in the local university, and there were at least 3 different martial arts being taught there at the time, including this new Taekwondo club that we were visiting.
In the same building, starting about the same time we finished, an Aikido class was being taught. My friend and I had never seen Aikido before (this was before Steven Seagal had jumped to popularity), and we decided to go watch after we were done with our Taekwondo class. We were still in our Doboks, but out of respect, removed our belts (we were taught never to wear belts outside of class.. something seldom taught today).
This looked like some pretty crazy stuff to us, all this rolling around and throwing each other..... we were really quite fascinated with something SO different to what we were learning.
The instructor noticed us watching his class after about a few minutes, walked over and said "What are you doing here?" We said that we hadn't ever seen Aikido before, and would like to watch his class. His response was completely unexpected... "What, are you looking for a fight?" We told him no, apologized for bothering them, and left.
We went to our instructor who was still cleaning up, and let him know what happened. I was concerned that I had acted in a discourteous way somehow, or that I wasn't representing my school with honor. I was honest as I could be in my recount to him, as I did honestly want to know what I might have done wrong, or if there was some lesson to be learned from the experience. I certainly didn't want him hearing about his colored belts insulting an instructor from another school from others, or it causing an issue with the university somehow.
Our instructor went to go speak with the other instructor about the it... came back about 5 minutes later, and the conversation between him and I went like this:
(this was a long time ago, so paraphrasing a bit...)
My Instructor: "I'm taking care of the situation... You guys didn't do anything wrong."
Me: "Then is it OK to go watch?"
Instructor: "No... you should stay away from them."
Me: "Is everything ok, sir?"
Instructor: "Sure - everything is fine. That guy is just an *kitten*" (first and ONLY time I ever heard him use language like that)
Me: "I thought everything was OK...?"
Instructor: "It is... he and I are going to 'talk' after he's done with his class... You guys need to clear out of here before then."
Mysteriously, the Aikido class was unexpectedly cancelled for the next month ... and after that, he wouldn't make eye contact or speak with any of our students. Literally would turn his head away and refuse to acknowledge their existence.0 -
Just have to comment on super man punches specifically:
Those have long been an inside joke at our class, once in a while we'll throw a superman punch at eachother during sparring and we all start giggling like little kids.
(We've also been known to yell out kamehameha and rasengen! XD)1 -
Geocitiesuser wrote: »Just have to comment on super man punches specifically:
Those have long been an inside joke at our class, once in a while we'll throw a superman punch at eachother during sparring and we all start giggling like little kids.
(We've also been known to yell out kamehameha and rasengen! XD)
Hahaha - yeah, I find them pretty ridiculous myself! I've only ever sparred with one person who knew how to make them work in sparring... and it was such a shock when he managed to land one! Even then, once you knew his timing, they are very easily countered, so even if they are done just right (apparently it's all about the timing) they generally only work once or twice against a given person... ever.0 -
One of my old classmates (he got transferred in military), was an ex boxer, young, and super fast. He was the only person I ever sparred who's punches would legitimately count for points in sparring, and they were strong enough that you'd feel it right through the hogu.
Some of my fondest memories are of sparring. Reminds me of rough housing as a kid. Should be a fun sparring class tonight if I can get someone to challenge the instructor.1 -
Geocitiesuser wrote: »Should be a fun sparring class tonight if I can get someone to challenge the instructor.
You are nuts!0 -
In some gyms it is seen as disrespectful to ask a higher belt to roll - you are to wait for them to ask. Other gyms are less formal - ours is the latter. I will ask the brown belts or black belts including my Coaches to roll. Our Coaches expect us too. They also say to be wary of BJJ black black belts that won't roll (barring them being injured.). I don't know if you would consider it a challenge, but our Coaches full expect their students to come after them and try and get a tap.
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Brabo_Grip wrote: »In some gyms it is seen as disrespectful to ask a higher belt to roll - you are to wait for them to ask. Other gyms are less formal - ours is the latter. I will ask the brown belts or black belts including my Coaches to roll. Our Coaches expect us too. They also say to be wary of BJJ black black belts that won't roll (barring them being injured.). I don't know if you would consider it a challenge, but our Coaches full expect their students to come after them and try and get a tap.
Asking to roll or spar... Perfectly acceptable assuming that it is done respectfully... Challenges are another thing in my opinion.0 -
My instructor just posted this on Facebook:
"The best thing about my Jiujitsu life other than Jiujitsu is all the amazing people I get exposed to. They come to our happy place and they go home happy."
Then one of the upper belts posted:
"The effects of a great coach, high level jiu jitsu and an ego free gym!"
That really describes our family (we really see it as a family). We get lots of visitors from other clubs, including many of the top mma fighters in the country who come and do camps with my coach and they are all welcomed as family. I have also heard him say that he genuinely likes all the people who train at the club.1 -
Brabo_Grip wrote: »In some gyms it is seen as disrespectful to ask a higher belt to roll - you are to wait for them to ask. Other gyms are less formal - ours is the latter. I will ask the brown belts or black belts including my Coaches to roll. Our Coaches expect us too. They also say to be wary of BJJ black black belts that won't roll (barring them being injured.). I don't know if you would consider it a challenge, but our Coaches full expect their students to come after them and try and get a tap.
Asking to roll or spar... Perfectly acceptable assuming that it is done respectfully... Challenges are another thing in my opinion.
I agree, there is probably a distinction, especially regarding intent and approach as well as the mores of the particular Gym.1 -
I regularly spar with my instructor and sometimes we like to get pretty heavy into it (were both big guys (I'm 6ft 315 he's 6'3" about 280) I have certainly beaten him in a point sparring match a time a two but I have no question that he could end me in a matter of seconds in a real fight. Sometimes people are just dumb!1
