Intervals/ speedwork a question

Ben_1960

Hi

Just a quick question to all experienced runners out there. I am 6 weeks into a 12 week half marathon training programme. I am now up to around 30 miles per week across 4 runs:

1. Easy 40 mins to 50 mins 10 - 11 min per mile.
2. Treadmill tempo - 50 mins at 8:57 min/mile (with 10 warm up and 5 min cool down, 2% incline)
3. Treadmill intervals/speedwork - 7 x 0.5 miles at 8:13 min/mile, with 4 min jog recoveries at 12:00 min/mile (with 10 warm up and 5 min cool down, 2% incline)
4. 8 to 10 miles at around 9:50 min:mile.

I am ready to increase my speed work. Is it better to increase pace or increase the amount of intervals or both?

DavidMartinez2

Hopefully Carson will comment, this is more his area. I think workout 3 is where you can make your changes; every week hit those intervals at a slightly faster pace. When I used the dreadmill I would do ladders where each interval was .2 faster than the one before and each week would start .2 faster than the week before.

CarsonRuns

Actually, I would go the other way. I would replace the intervals with another easy run of about 60 minutes and maybe to 6 to 10 strides of 100m at the end of that run.

Looking at your plan, you are running 4 times and doing 3 workouts (tempo, interval and long). Of those three workouts, only one of them is building your aerobic system, which is the primary system you will be using running a HM. It's about 97% aerobic.

Also, how did you determine what your tempo pace should be? A tempo run should be done at Lactate Threshold, which is loosely defined as the pace you can sustain for an hour. So, for some runners, that is HM pace, for slower runners, closer to 10K pace. In addition, you don't need to do 50 minutes of it to get the maximum benefit. You actually get diminishing returns when you go much longer than 25 minutes and the recovery time increases.


Here is what I would suggest.

1. Easy run, 50 to 60 minutes
2. Tempo, 60 minutes with 20 to 25 minutes at tempo pace.
3. Easy run of 60 to 75 minutes with 6-10 strides of 60 to 100 meters
4. Long run of 10+ miles as easy run pace.

It would also help a lot if you could add another day of running. 45 to 60 minutes at easy run pace.

Hope that helps.

barrpc

Always been dicy on this one for me. I have been told I am overtraining and told I am not working hard enough. I finally settled on trying this calculator (http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/) and as I increase interval distance drop down to the corresponding race pace. So like for 400m - 800m I run my 5k pace, 1k up I drop to 10k pace. So far I have been able to make improvements (4 PRs including a marathon this year). Is that optimal?? I guess I'll see in the future....lots of free stuff online from McMillan, Higdon...etc.

WebbyShoo

Actually, I would go the other way. I would replace the intervals with another easy run of about 60 minutes and maybe to 6 to 10 strides of 100m at the end of that run.

Looking at your plan, you are running 4 times and doing 3 workouts (tempo, interval and long). Of those three workouts, only one of them is building your aerobic system, which is the primary system you will be using running a HM. It's about 97% aerobic.

Also, how did you determine what your tempo pace should be? A tempo run should be done at Lactate Threshold, which is loosely defined as the pace you can sustain for an hour. So, for some runners, that is HM pace, for slower runners, closer to 10K pace. In addition, you don't need to do 50 minutes of it to get the maximum benefit. You actually get diminishing returns when you go much longer than 25 minutes and the recovery time increases.


Here is what I would suggest.

1. Easy run, 50 to 60 minutes
2. Tempo, 60 minutes with 20 to 25 minutes at tempo pace.
3. Easy run of 60 to 75 minutes with 6-10 strides of 60 to 100 meters
4. Long run of 10+ miles as easy run pace.

It would also help a lot if you could add another day of running. 45 to 60 minutes at easy run pace.

Hope that helps.

Awesome advice. I'll be using it structuring my next rotation for this next half.

DavidMartinez2

1. Easy run, 50 to 60 minutes
2. Tempo, 60 minutes with 20 to 25 minutes at tempo pace.
3. Easy run of 60 to 75 minutes with 6-10 strides of 60 to 100 meters
4. Long run of 10+ miles as easy run pace.

The plan I am following right now cycles between short intervals, long intervals, and tempo run for the speed work with the 4th week being a hill workout.

ATT949

Hi

Just a quick question to all experienced runners out there. I am 6 weeks into a 12 week half marathon training programme. I am now up to around 30 miles per week across 4 runs:

1. Easy 40 mins to 50 mins 10 - 11 min per mile.
2. Treadmill tempo - 50 mins at 8:57 min/mile (with 10 warm up and 5 min cool down, 2% incline)
3. Treadmill intervals/speedwork - 7 x 0.5 miles at 8:13 min/mile, with 4 min jog recoveries at 12:00 min/mile (with 10 warm up and 5 min cool down, 2% incline)
4. 8 to 10 miles at around 9:50 min:mile.

I am ready to increase my speed work. Is it better to increase pace or increase the amount of intervals or both?

Why do you believe that you're ready to add more speedwork. There's a disconnect looking at your schedule - you're training for a half but you're not doing any runs to improve your endurance.

Contemporary training (for non-elites) uses long, slow runs to build an aerobic base. The majority of your mileage is done at low HR to build cardiovascular strength and skeletal strength.

Greg McMillan breaks training into four zones - endurance, stamina, speed, and sprint. Every time you train, you should train with a purpose. If you're running, the run should be designed to improve performance in one of those zones.

Run 1 = easy run or LSD but it's less than 5 miles = a little endurance running
Run 2 = a tempo run = stamina
Run 3 = speed
Run 4 = "junk miles" or "no man's land" = it's not an easy run but it's not a stamina run. In his book "You - only faster" I believe that Greg actually quotes Lydiard as calling those runs as "no man's land".

As a minimum, slow those miles down (add a minute to your pace).

Interesting - your tempo time is very close to mine but I run most of my miles at 10:30 to 10:50.

Oh, who's Greg McMillan?

Check out mcmillan.com.

I did a McMillan running camp and Greg walked us through the four zones and the theory behind the entire approach. Part of the course was going through the process and he's wrapped it all up in his book (it's on Kindle for only $10).

I switched over to the Half Mary plan (4-5 days a week) and am very pleased with it. I would highly recommend it as an easy to read source of information and an excellent way to put together a plan.

BTW, I'm using the training plan on page 22 of the book. I had to cut back on the mileage in the plan but, other than that, I'm running the standard plan and am enjoying it immensely.

I've found it difficult to run "slow" (it's relative!), especially this year. I've been training, without injury, since December, 2012 and it's great to see that my legs are getting stronger, my cardio is improving, and my running form is improving. My tempo runs are frustrating because they're about 20 seconds below the pace where I feel I'm running rather than jogging.

Could I speed up my paces so they feel "better"? Sure I could and no way would I do that.

Not.A.Chance.

It's much better to get to the starting line being slightly undertrained than it is to watch from the sidelines, carrying your $85 tee shirt!

WhataBroad

the plan I have been following is much like what Carson has laid out. 4 runs per week= 1 tempo for 30 minutes, 2 easy for 45 - 60 minutes and then the long run which increased roughly 1 mile every week over 14 weeks. It's been easy to stick to for me and I have definitely been able to cover more ground over the weeks in my time allotment so I know it's been helping my speed

natalie412

I am also following McMillan - which is similar to what Carson is suggesting. I do generally 3 easy runs, 1 long run, and some sort of speed workout per week. Could be a tempo run, cruise intervals, fartlek type workout. McMillan also throws in the occasional fast finish long run.

Ben_1960

Thanks Guys

lots of food for thought there, my 4th run is what i thought was my endurance run. This progressively has been increasing in mileage as I have gone through the routine. I have already run 10 miles quite comfortably at around 10:15 so I am quite confident in the endurance stakes. What I am aiming for is a time around or just under 2 hours hence my eagerness to step up the speedwork.

My plan came from here: http://www.bupa.co.uk/running/training/training-programmes/intermediate-half-marathon/

my pace was calculated using: http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/general/rws-training-pace-calculator/1676.html

Bupa are the main sponsors of the Great North Run which usually has over 48000 participants. This takes place on 15th Sept this year and is the race I am training for.

Thanks again

CarsonRuns

What I am aiming for is a time around or just under 2 hours hence my eagerness to step up the speedwork.

For speed work to be effective, you have to have an aerobic base to support it. Even then, the speed work has to be consistent with your current level of fitness AND be specific to the race distance for which you are training. For a HM, Doing 400m repeats are 5K pace (for example) is not specific to the race. Something more appropriate would be 800m repeats at 10K pace or 1 mile cruise intervals at HM pace - :10 seconds.

For you, where you are currently in your training, I believe less speed work and more easy miles will provide you far greater benefit.

Ben_1960

Thanks again Carson