PCOS vs. "Normal"
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kenzietate
Posts: 399 Member
Hi Ladies,
I found this very interesting. I have known what PCOS means for my hormones for a long time now but I have never seen it so nicely laid out at this post that I found here: http://www.reddit.com/r/xxfitness/comments/1jp9b9/how_to_use_your_hormones_to_help_you_lose_weight/. This shows the best way for women to lose weight and use their cycle to their advantage. It also shows how PCOS women don't have the same advantages.
"How to use your hormones to help you lose weight: a very short primer.
submitted by georgiabiker
So, the following is how to use your monthly cycle to actually help your weight loss. Firstly, you all should know that MUCH of how we feel, think, act, and eat on a daily basis is regulated and modulated by our hormones. There's a fantastic graphic on this page of the fluctuations of your hormones that you should spend a few minutes studying: Educate yourself!
The first 2 weeks of your cycle (starting with day one of your period) is dominated by estrogen. Estrogen can make you gregarious, outgoing, energized, enthusiastic. It can make some people a little too high-strung.
Ovulation happens approximately 12-16 days before your period. (So if you're like me and have a 32-35 day cycle, this happens on day 20 or so.) Otherwise, just count backwards 2 weeks from your period.
After ovulation, your hormones switch it up and progesterone takes over. Progesterone increases your GABA. So you're much more relaxed, clear headed, and instead of maniacally running around, you're prone to want to stay in. You feel pretty good about life. Some few people may get too demotivated and interpret this as depression. But I LOVE progesterone. I feel like the world is A-OK during this time.
A DROP IN HORMONES IS WHAT BRINGS THE CRAY
Now, around the time when your period actually starts, AND just after ovulation (mid-cycle) within a day, both of your hormones plummet before one or the other takes over. And it's the sudden drop in hormones that actually makes us feel the worst. Grumpy as hell for no reason? Something you loved one day looks terrible today? It's probably your hormones. All wound up- is it a high estrogen time? Chillaxing to the max- is progesterone in the house? Raging/ Crying/ the world SUCKS: have both of your major hormones left the building? See, you're not as crazy or unpredictable as you've maybe been thinking. You just didn't know that it was the lack of hormones that made you a little crazy.
HOW THIS AFFECTS YOUR DIET:
ESTROGEN So, what you really need to know is this. When Estrogen predominates during the first 2 weeks of your cycle, you EAT 15% LESS naturally. That's right! Not only are you outgoing and energized but your hunger goes down, you're more sensitive to insulin, and you automatically assume a diet that will make you lose almost pound a week. Awesome!
VS.
PROGESTERONE When progesterone dominates, you may automatically eat ~15% more. You might even binge eat. Bummer! That's because your body thinks you might be pregnant so has you go ahead and start eating for two, just in case. Combine that with the urge to sit around in your PJs, and, well...here come the love handles!
So! Our lesson here is this. Start your diet in the first two weeks of your period.
You'll not only be feeling energized to work out and motivated and sharp, you will already be less hungry so starting a diet will be a snap, not a chore! In fact, you hopefully will have some success and enough momentum to make it through the tougher (dieting-wise) two weeks later in the month. ALSO now that we are more self-aware of the fact that it's just those pesky hormones, it should be a lot easier to recognize when they are making you reach for the brownies and put the brakes on it. You can do it! You can work WITH your body to lose weight. I hope you guys enjoyed this and that it was clear enough and had enough references. I'm pooped from the gym but can add more later if you want.
xoxoxo!
PCOS:
See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycystic_ovary_syndrome#Pathogenesis
and even more simply this: http://www.pcosjournal.com/irregular-menstrual-cycle-pcos-hormone-imbalance/
Those links cleared up every question I had about it! Here's my synopsis.
PCOS sends you into some pretty bad loops it's hard to get out of. Basically your ovaries start acting like balls, for lack of a better analogy, and making a bit too much androgenizing hormone (such as testosterone.) When this happens your eggs (what they call follicles) don't mature. Thus, that month- no period!
You probably also make too much Luteinizing Hormone all the time. LH is what makes you ovulate, thus eventually giving you a period, but it's the SURGE that makes you ovulate. In PCOS, there's no surge because you have too much all the time.
The problem is that making too much testosterone, in turn, makes you insulin resistant. Being insulin resistant makes your body produce too much insulin to try to overcome your body's resistance to insulin (ignoring it, if you will.) When you have high insulin in your bloodstream, since insulin is an anabolic hormone, this makes you produce even more testosterone! Make sense? So the damn testosterone makes your insulin increase which makes you produce more testosterone which.....well you get the picture.
Ironically, fat tissue produces an enzyme which converts androgenizing hormones to two different kinds of estrogen. So you have too much estrogen (estrogen dominance) all the time as well as too much androgenizing hormones. Double whammy.
Progesterone is made by mature follicles (eggs.) With PCOS, your follicles aren't maturing, thus no progesterone for you, thus no menstrating to speak of (or at least irregularly) for you.
All the while, this loop is making you fatter and making it even harder to lose weight. This is why for many people, metformin (the diabetes drug) is very helpful in losing PCOS weight and reducing other symptoms. Because it breaks the cycle. Incidentally, losing weight, PERIOD will lessen the PCOS and as far as I know can render it nearly asymptomatic if you really achieve significant fat loss. And you CAN lose weight without metformin, it just takes discipline and more than likely a low GI diet (but use whatever works- low calorie might also be effective.)"
This is what clicked for me when I read this. If insulin contributes to the cycle of creating more testosterone, then reducing insulin in our systems makes sense. By reducing the insulin in our systems the cycle is broken and we might be able to allow our testosterone levels to lower!
Enter low carb! I have known for the last several months that low carb or low gi are the best ways to eat for PCOS but other than a basic overview of why I never really cared so long as it works. Well after reading this, I finally see a direct connection between insulin and testosterone and all of my problems. By eating low carb, our bodies have very little need to produce insulin. This means that we don't have excess in our system, more testosterone isn't released, and our estrogen and Progesterone have the ability to take forefront and get us back to a normal cycle.
This article has caused me to redouble my efforts and stay low carb. I am embracing a life style for my body, not just a diet to lose weight! I want to beat the hold that PCOS has had on my life!
I found this very interesting. I have known what PCOS means for my hormones for a long time now but I have never seen it so nicely laid out at this post that I found here: http://www.reddit.com/r/xxfitness/comments/1jp9b9/how_to_use_your_hormones_to_help_you_lose_weight/. This shows the best way for women to lose weight and use their cycle to their advantage. It also shows how PCOS women don't have the same advantages.
"How to use your hormones to help you lose weight: a very short primer.
submitted by georgiabiker
So, the following is how to use your monthly cycle to actually help your weight loss. Firstly, you all should know that MUCH of how we feel, think, act, and eat on a daily basis is regulated and modulated by our hormones. There's a fantastic graphic on this page of the fluctuations of your hormones that you should spend a few minutes studying: Educate yourself!
The first 2 weeks of your cycle (starting with day one of your period) is dominated by estrogen. Estrogen can make you gregarious, outgoing, energized, enthusiastic. It can make some people a little too high-strung.
Ovulation happens approximately 12-16 days before your period. (So if you're like me and have a 32-35 day cycle, this happens on day 20 or so.) Otherwise, just count backwards 2 weeks from your period.
After ovulation, your hormones switch it up and progesterone takes over. Progesterone increases your GABA. So you're much more relaxed, clear headed, and instead of maniacally running around, you're prone to want to stay in. You feel pretty good about life. Some few people may get too demotivated and interpret this as depression. But I LOVE progesterone. I feel like the world is A-OK during this time.
A DROP IN HORMONES IS WHAT BRINGS THE CRAY
Now, around the time when your period actually starts, AND just after ovulation (mid-cycle) within a day, both of your hormones plummet before one or the other takes over. And it's the sudden drop in hormones that actually makes us feel the worst. Grumpy as hell for no reason? Something you loved one day looks terrible today? It's probably your hormones. All wound up- is it a high estrogen time? Chillaxing to the max- is progesterone in the house? Raging/ Crying/ the world SUCKS: have both of your major hormones left the building? See, you're not as crazy or unpredictable as you've maybe been thinking. You just didn't know that it was the lack of hormones that made you a little crazy.
HOW THIS AFFECTS YOUR DIET:
ESTROGEN So, what you really need to know is this. When Estrogen predominates during the first 2 weeks of your cycle, you EAT 15% LESS naturally. That's right! Not only are you outgoing and energized but your hunger goes down, you're more sensitive to insulin, and you automatically assume a diet that will make you lose almost pound a week. Awesome!
VS.
PROGESTERONE When progesterone dominates, you may automatically eat ~15% more. You might even binge eat. Bummer! That's because your body thinks you might be pregnant so has you go ahead and start eating for two, just in case. Combine that with the urge to sit around in your PJs, and, well...here come the love handles!
So! Our lesson here is this. Start your diet in the first two weeks of your period.
You'll not only be feeling energized to work out and motivated and sharp, you will already be less hungry so starting a diet will be a snap, not a chore! In fact, you hopefully will have some success and enough momentum to make it through the tougher (dieting-wise) two weeks later in the month. ALSO now that we are more self-aware of the fact that it's just those pesky hormones, it should be a lot easier to recognize when they are making you reach for the brownies and put the brakes on it. You can do it! You can work WITH your body to lose weight. I hope you guys enjoyed this and that it was clear enough and had enough references. I'm pooped from the gym but can add more later if you want.
xoxoxo!PCOS:
See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycystic_ovary_syndrome#Pathogenesis
and even more simply this: http://www.pcosjournal.com/irregular-menstrual-cycle-pcos-hormone-imbalance/
Those links cleared up every question I had about it! Here's my synopsis.
PCOS sends you into some pretty bad loops it's hard to get out of. Basically your ovaries start acting like balls, for lack of a better analogy, and making a bit too much androgenizing hormone (such as testosterone.) When this happens your eggs (what they call follicles) don't mature. Thus, that month- no period!
You probably also make too much Luteinizing Hormone all the time. LH is what makes you ovulate, thus eventually giving you a period, but it's the SURGE that makes you ovulate. In PCOS, there's no surge because you have too much all the time.
The problem is that making too much testosterone, in turn, makes you insulin resistant. Being insulin resistant makes your body produce too much insulin to try to overcome your body's resistance to insulin (ignoring it, if you will.) When you have high insulin in your bloodstream, since insulin is an anabolic hormone, this makes you produce even more testosterone! Make sense? So the damn testosterone makes your insulin increase which makes you produce more testosterone which.....well you get the picture.
Ironically, fat tissue produces an enzyme which converts androgenizing hormones to two different kinds of estrogen. So you have too much estrogen (estrogen dominance) all the time as well as too much androgenizing hormones. Double whammy.
Progesterone is made by mature follicles (eggs.) With PCOS, your follicles aren't maturing, thus no progesterone for you, thus no menstrating to speak of (or at least irregularly) for you.
All the while, this loop is making you fatter and making it even harder to lose weight. This is why for many people, metformin (the diabetes drug) is very helpful in losing PCOS weight and reducing other symptoms. Because it breaks the cycle. Incidentally, losing weight, PERIOD will lessen the PCOS and as far as I know can render it nearly asymptomatic if you really achieve significant fat loss. And you CAN lose weight without metformin, it just takes discipline and more than likely a low GI diet (but use whatever works- low calorie might also be effective.)"
This is what clicked for me when I read this. If insulin contributes to the cycle of creating more testosterone, then reducing insulin in our systems makes sense. By reducing the insulin in our systems the cycle is broken and we might be able to allow our testosterone levels to lower!
Enter low carb! I have known for the last several months that low carb or low gi are the best ways to eat for PCOS but other than a basic overview of why I never really cared so long as it works. Well after reading this, I finally see a direct connection between insulin and testosterone and all of my problems. By eating low carb, our bodies have very little need to produce insulin. This means that we don't have excess in our system, more testosterone isn't released, and our estrogen and Progesterone have the ability to take forefront and get us back to a normal cycle.
This article has caused me to redouble my efforts and stay low carb. I am embracing a life style for my body, not just a diet to lose weight! I want to beat the hold that PCOS has had on my life!
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Replies
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Ow this I really need to study properly! It's one of those things which made me gain weight and so hard to loose it again, thanks!0
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Love this makes complete sense really. Thanks for the info. How low carb do you go?0
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Thanks for posting this. I sorta fell off the low carb wagon recently and of course it was in a progesterone dominant time!
I too am curious about others' carb levels as well as protein and fat.
I find it hard to get enough protein in without relying on large amounts of chicken breasts.0 -
Love this makes complete sense really. Thanks for the info. How low carb do you go?
I follow a diet plan that is very low carb and high fat (LCHF). I eat fewer than 20g of net carbs (carbs-fiber=net carbs) per day. On a 1600 calorie diet this puts my fat at 124 g and protein at 100 per day. I have done a lot of research at this point and I firmly believe that this diet, though a bit difficult at first, is the best way for PCOS and pre-diabetic people on the right track. For me, I see weight loss but more importantly, I see changes in my symptoms! My acne is going away, my mood swings are not nearly as bad, my energy levels are at an all time high. If you want more information on this diet check out these two links:
http://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf
http://eatingacademy.com/start-here
My typical day would look like this:
Breakfast - shake with low carb whey protein mix, 2 frozen strawberries (flavor), 2T heavy cream, 3/4 unsweetened vanilla almond milk, 1T peanut butter
Snack 1 - Iced coffee with 1T heavy whipping cream, no sugar (could use Truvia or similar)
Lunch - I don't like lettuce very much so I have 2/3 of a bell pepper + 1 ripe plum tomato or medium other tomato cut up. Add 2T creamy full fat dressing of some type, 1/4c. shredded cheese, 1T sunflower seeds and sometimes a grilled chicken breast.
Snack 2 - 1 oz extra sharp cheddar cheese, 1oz hard salami or other lunch meat
Dinner - Fresh Bratwursts, roasted chicken, grilled burgers w/ no bun, hot dogs w/ no bun, really any meat that you enjoy + 1c. of veggies (usually broccoli or green beans for me)
This day would be around 1575 calories, 20 net carbs (29 carbs- 9 g fiber), 113g Fat, 108g protein. This would be an almost perfect 5% carbs/65% fat/30% protein day (my macro settings)!
Eating full fat cheeses, heavy cream, real butter, avocados, coconut oil (I don't personally use this) and almonds are all great ways to get more fat!
There are several other versions similar to LCHF but aren't as strict. The Low GI diet is great for this. I have seen varied success with this for PCOS women though. I lost 10lbs on it fairly quickly but then nothing and none of my symptoms changed. But many other women find this diet to fix their symptoms perfectly. It is all about finding what works for you!
For more info on Low GI check out http://www.livestrong.com/article/226671-pcos-low-glycemic-diet/
Start with Low GI if you haven't watched carbs very much. See if it helps. If you feel better but not great maybe start slowly restricting carbs. I started out restricting down to 60 carbs, I started feeling better. Then I though well how about 50 carbs, even better. Then it became a challenge to see how low I could go without feeling deprived. I got to 20 carbs and I am on the path to feeling great!0 -
Thanks for posting this. I sorta fell off the low carb wagon recently and of course it was in a progesterone dominant time!
I too am curious about others' carb levels as well as protein and fat.
I find it hard to get enough protein in without relying on large amounts of chicken breasts.
It isn't nearly as difficult to get protein in as many people think. Enough protein is really .4-.75 g per lb of lean mass depending on your athletic level. For me I have a requirement of between 90-100g to keep up my muscle mass. All meats and cheeses have some protein. As a PCOS women, drop those carbs low and don't be afraid of fat! Protein should only be a moderate levels!0 -
I have struggled with PCOS for a very long time. My doctors believe it started at the onset of puberty. However, I did not have the crazy symptoms until I was around 20 years old (or at least that is when I really started to notice them).
I actually went 3 years without a period...which I really didn't mind...until my husband and I tried to have a baby. Enter low carb diet. I did Atkins for 7 months before I started to see improvements. It really did make the weight fly off.
Of course, as soon as I became pregnant, my doctor wanted me to stop Atkins.
I no longer do the extreme low-carb - but I do try to limit it under what those around me are eating. I will have one slice of bread per sandwich, hardly any potatoes, etc.
I have lost about 75 pounds cutting carbs by just a little and exercising. I used to be around 375...now I am at 298. I now have periods every single month like clockwork. I am still on Metformin - but about half the dose I was on previously (I also am diabetic...another reason to stay on met).
I found this article very interesting. Now that my periods are regular, I can definitely relate to the estrogen burst in the beginning of the cycle (that is where I am now).0 -
Bump0
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Thanks for this info, all good stuff to know! I have been eating at around 1400 calories per day, not looking at carbs or gi and I've been stalled for over 2 months, not to mention huge beastly cravings all the time!
I was taken off metformin a few months ago but they never really explained to me what it did or anything, they took me off it because I was getting periods all the time...maybe I should go back on it? My periods have been pretty regular lately though.
I went low carb for a year about 4 years ago and it worked really well for me but I got so over it- especially around breakfasts where my only options were protein shakes or eggs- that I don't think I could ever try it again. I'm going some research into the low gi aspect though, but the fact that it's not written on nutrition labels or anything is a little off-putting. Anyone else low-gi out there?0 -
I think you need to write a book on this! This made me understand it SOOO much better!0
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Yay! Proof that Cysters do have added challenges to weight loss! I hate when "normal" people tell me that my PCOS is NOT making it any harder to lose weight and that I'm just making excuses.
When I started eating salads for lunch every day at work, I dropped pounds pretty quick because it meant less carbs. I'm trying really hard to lower my carbs but they're so cheap...and yummy...ugh.0 -
Yay! Proof that Cysters do have added challenges to weight loss! I hate when "normal" people tell me that my PCOS is NOT making it any harder to lose weight and that I'm just making excuses.
When I started eating salads for lunch every day at work, I dropped pounds pretty quick because it meant less carbs. I'm trying really hard to lower my carbs but they're so cheap...and yummy...ugh.
They are cheap and yummy! But I found that after the initial first two weeks or so I was spending less money at the grocery store than before. I was planning my meals a week at a time and buying for that week only. Because I started doing that and because I was naturally eating less the grocery bill started to drop. I am now paying about 20% less than what I was spending when eating more carbs! A completely unexpected side effect!
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Yay! Proof that Cysters do have added challenges to weight loss! I hate when "normal" people tell me that my PCOS is NOT making it any harder to lose weight and that I'm just making excuses.
THIS. VERY MUCH THIS. Especially when trying to explain it to a MAN.
My husband for a while thought I was outright lying to him when I told him all the issues PCOS brings. I then went to a bookstore, bought a book, and made him read it. He apologized.
Also, I've never heard the term Cysters before! I'm so using that from now on!0 -
They are cheap and yummy! But I found that after the initial first two weeks or so I was spending less money at the grocery store than before. I was planning my meals a week at a time and buying for that week only. Because I started doing that and because I was naturally eating less the grocery bill started to drop. I am now paying about 20% less than what I was spending when eating more carbs! A completely unexpected side effect!
I'm also buying groceries for my boyfriend to (I do all the grocery shopping for our household) so I can't completely cut out carbs. It'd be much easier if I just had to shop myself but that's not happening... I also try to only go to the store once or twice a month because I ALWAYS buy more than necessary when I go the store, no matter how hard I try to stick to my grocery list. haha...
Also, I've never heard the term Cysters before! I'm so using that from now on!
I heard it some time ago and use it now because it's just easier than saying women with PCOS. lol0 -
So, I am 50 and nearing menopause. I have been taking metformin for 10 years and, I remember when I first started taking it, I felt like I was going through puberty again. Finally, normal periods! Now, because I have lost so much weight, my doctor thinks I might not be insulin resistant anymore and wants to decrease and even stop my metformin. She did a blood test to determine my blood sugar levels over time and they have been normal. I can't help wondering if that is because of the weight loss or the metformin. In any case, I am down to one 500 MG tablet per day instead of two. I am nervously watching my weight to see if it starts to creep back up.0
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So, I am 50 and nearing menopause. I have been taking metformin for 10 years and, I remember when I first started taking it, I felt like I was going through puberty again. Finally, normal periods! Now, because I have lost so much weight, my doctor thinks I might not be insulin resistant anymore and wants to decrease and even stop my metformin. She did a blood test to determine my blood sugar levels over time and they have been normal. I can't help wondering if that is because of the weight loss or the metformin. In any case, I am down to one 500 MG tablet per day instead of two. I am nervously watching my weight to see if it starts to creep back up.
This is awesome!! I really hope that I get the same results! I am down to two 500 MG tablets per day instead of three. So I hope I'm on the right track!0 -
So, I am 50 and nearing menopause. I have been taking metformin for 10 years and, I remember when I first started taking it, I felt like I was going through puberty again. Finally, normal periods! Now, because I have lost so much weight, my doctor thinks I might not be insulin resistant anymore and wants to decrease and even stop my metformin. She did a blood test to determine my blood sugar levels over time and they have been normal. I can't help wondering if that is because of the weight loss or the metformin. In any case, I am down to one 500 MG tablet per day instead of two. I am nervously watching my weight to see if it starts to creep back up.
This is awesome!! I really hope that I get the same results! I am down to two 500 MG tablets per day instead of three. So I hope I'm on the right track!0 -
Hopping into this forum to keep the explanation handy. I never really bothered to understand PCOS until recently and now I see that I'm seriously overdoing the carbs.
It took me a while to recognize the word "cysters" but I think I love it!0 -
So, I am 50 and nearing menopause. I have been taking metformin for 10 years and, I remember when I first started taking it, I felt like I was going through puberty again. Finally, normal periods! Now, because I have lost so much weight, my doctor thinks I might not be insulin resistant anymore and wants to decrease and even stop my metformin. She did a blood test to determine my blood sugar levels over time and they have been normal. I can't help wondering if that is because of the weight loss or the metformin. In any case, I am down to one 500 MG tablet per day instead of two. I am nervously watching my weight to see if it starts to creep back up.
So, I just wanted to update my fellow CYSters. I am back to taking my metformin twice a day. About a month ago, I noticed that I was getting a serious case of what I call "the hungries" in the evening. Not every evening but, a lot of them(I was taking my metformin in the morning). The best way to describe it is I HAVE to eat every single carb in the house. I mean, everything! Even when I was full to sick, I wanted more! It was worse then the worst hunger you have ever felt! The cravings kept getting more and more frequent. Then, this past month, my weight jumped almost 10 LBS because I just couldn't control those cravings. Finally, a light went off in my head that carbs meant glucose! I put two and two together and promptly called my doctor. She agreed with me and restarted me on two 500 MG metformin per day, just like I was before. I am now working my butt off trying to remove those unwanted pounds. I am just glad I caught it before things got too out of control. So, my suggestion is this. When you reach goal, if your doctor wants to remove you from your metformin, watch yourself very carefully for the reaction I had. I don't know if everyone will react the same way but, just in case, I thought all of you should know.0 -
Just found this group, thanks for the info, makes a lot of sense to me.0
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I went low carb for a year about 4 years ago and it worked really well for me but I got so over it- especially around breakfasts where my only options were protein shakes or eggs- that I don't think I could ever try it again. I'm going some research into the low gi aspect though, but the fact that it's not written on nutrition labels or anything is a little off-putting. Anyone else low-gi out there?
Bulletproof coffee. Or just about any variation, thereof.
Seriously, check it out. I know a bunch of people who swear by it.
As for recipe ideas in general, check out Primal and Paleo sites and cookbooks. Regardless of your views on the whole Paleo thing, most of the recipes will be low-gi, since that's part of the premises of the diet, and what isn't is pretty obvious.
In general, for low-gi/gl (GL is arguably more important, but that's a different matter), you want to choose full-fat items over low-fat, especially in anything with sugars (so switch to whole milk from skim), and items where fiber is the dominating source of carbs. Low sugar beats high sugar, of course. Beyond that, it's a matter of rote memorization, to an extent. Always pair your carbs with protein and fat, and keep fat as the dominant fuel source macro, so you don't cause insulin spikes (protein raises insulin, too).0
