More on the core

paprad

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1069138-engaging-tightening-core-what-does-it-mean

I asked this question at the ETP forum, on core tightening. Pasting it here in case anyone wants a dekko at the advice given. I am also curious - do you all make a conscious effort to take a deep inhale/exhale with each rep?

pandorakick

Regarding breathing: I certainly pay attention to it, because I've noticed the lift going better when exhaling on the "effort" part of the lift. For squats that would for example be "up"

cmeiron

Now that the weights are heavier I find it very important to keep my core tight and watch my breathing. I hold my breath and tighten during the onset of the "up"/"lift" part and exhale at the end of it. A couple of weeks ago I made the mistake of not paying attention to these things and wound up with a strained lower back after a squat. Not cool.

claston77

I try to remember to keep my core engaged and breathe correctly but I'm not always successful, especially with my squat, bench , and deadlift. Part of the issue for me is that even before I started the program I had a bad lower back and while the program hasn't aggravated it the pain is still there and sometimes activating my core just is uncomfortable. I'm actually going to start a core specific program on my off days to see if that helps though.

paprad

I found that when I made the effort to hold breath and exhale-inhale at the end of each rep, there was a longer gap before the next rep and my set took longer and I felt more tired holding the weight. I hope I get used to the process soon, currently I find the breathing routine not so easy to maintain.

claston77

Yeah in addition to my back discomfort that's kind of how I feel to, jeez are we really twins are what? :laugh: Everything I read though seems to indicate a weak core is the root of this. In theory these exercises should help strengthen your core though so maybe it gets easier? Like I said though I'm going to add in some core specific work on my off days and see if that helps. Also I read that when doing push exercises the OHP you should hold the top of the movement for 3-5 seconds to engage your core even more. I started doing that last week and you really do feel it!

paprad

Hey claston, that's funny, that you have the same issue on this as well!

I found this article by LyleM was quite useful for me. A lot of the advice I got on the core technique, from the other thread, was great information from very experienced and insightful lifters - but I realized they are doing huge weights-low reps - and so for me, doing the Valsalva didn't make sense. I don't have to work that hard at one or three reps - I have to keep myself going for 12 (next week, that is). So if I pause and do that kind of exhale-inhale-hold breath-lift-exhale for say, my OHP, I find my shoulders are really stressed and so is my back. I even think my knee pain is because of all this because I suspect my form suffered as I tried either hammering out 3 reps per breath or getting exhausted holding the dumbbells for that much longer. I wondered if I should drop the weight and focus on learning a proper breathing routine till it becomes instinctive.

Anyway, this article talks of the breathing issues for different types of lifters - beginners verses more performance oriented ones.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/breathing-during-weight-training.html

In sum, he says

For complete beginners (who should always be using light weights anyhow), it’s more important that they breathe than how they breathe. This is especially true during the first few workouts when there is so much other stuff that needs to be worried about.

For general lifting for health or fitness type purposes, I’d probably err on the side of the basic ‘exhale while lifting, inhale while lowering’. Admittedly there will be some loss of stability but usually basic fitness type lifting isn’t aimed at maximal performance and it would be rare for low repetitions or massively heavy weights to be used. As well, it’s not as common to see squats or deadlifts being used in those types of routines.

I was earlier doing the "exhale during the difficult part of the lift" method and I think I will go back to that till my weights get much more challenging - with just 2 months of lifting, I am definitely just a beginner and even after a couple more cycles, my goal is more of health and fitness. I would love to get into really heavy lifting one day - and I guess I will have to relearn breathing/valsalva then, but at least then I will be stronger and my form will be good.

claston77

Sounds good, I think what I'm realizing since I started seriously strength training is to keep it simple. If your way of breathing works for you then keep on rockin' it out I say. I find when I have to 'worry' about too many things I stress myself out and my form/intensity suffers only to find out from folks like Lyle in that article you posted it really isn't a big deal :laugh: I've been stressing myself out to be 'optimal' when in reality, for the goals I am striving for which are mainly health and aesthetics related 'very good' is an okay goal too. When I get to 'very good' I'll reassess and see what's next...

Thanks for the article link though, I love Lyle, and I'm glad I can just concentrate on remembering to breathe :laugh:

paprad

Sounds good, I think what I'm realizing since I started seriously strength training is to keep it simple. If your way of breathing works for you then keep on rockin' it out I say. I find when I have to 'worry' about too many things I stress myself out and my form/intensity suffers only to find out from folks like Lyle in that article you posted it really isn't a big deal :laugh: I've been stressing myself out to be 'optimal' when in reality, for the goals I am striving for which are mainly health and aesthetics related 'very good' is an okay goal too. When I get to 'very good' I'll reassess and see what's next...

Thanks for the article link though, I love Lyle, and I'm glad I can just concentrate on remembering to breathe :laugh:

So true Claston! :flowerforyou:

That philosophy should be applicable for all of life - "if it works for you, keep on rocking" - as also "just remember to keep breathing"!

I have a tendency to read too much and think too much and then it impacts the actual act of doing. Who was it who warned about perfection being the enemy of good? I went back to my old ways during the last couple of sessions and found life easier.

Week 5 looms ahead, better get rest during the weekend!

sun_fish

Sounds good, I think what I'm realizing since I started seriously strength training is to keep it simple. If your way of breathing works for you then keep on rockin' it out I say. I find when I have to 'worry' about too many things I stress myself out and my form/intensity suffers only to find out from folks like Lyle in that article you posted it really isn't a big deal :laugh: I've been stressing myself out to be 'optimal' when in reality, for the goals I am striving for which are mainly health and aesthetics related 'very good' is an okay goal too. When I get to 'very good' I'll reassess and see what's next...

Thanks for the article link though, I love Lyle, and I'm glad I can just concentrate on remembering to breathe :laugh:

I am going to remember this! I tend to overanalyze and complicate things, then like you said things will suffer from trying to focus on too many things. I did this with squats - I was having a lot of problems with form, so I spent endless hours watching videos, reading Starting Strength, etc, etc. All this focus ended up driving me crazy, until I realized I could do goblet squats with no problem. While I still would like to eventually do them with a barbell, for now what I am doing is working well.

paprad

Hah, karindiane - that's my problem too! too much reading and thinking

I too found goblet squats seem easier to do than balancing the weights on my shoulder and have been wondering about the transition to barbells

sun_fish

Hah, karindiane - that's my problem too! too much reading and thinking

I too found goblet squats seem easier to do than balancing the weights on my shoulder and have been wondering about the transition to barbells

I have been thinking about the transition a lot too - like I said my goal is to eventually do barbell squats, especially as the weights get heavier it seems like it will have to happen. The last couple of weeks I have been practicing with the barbell in between my warm up sets and work sets. It still feels very awkward and I video myself and my form is horrible. I am hoping if I just keep practicing it will one day happen correctly! I mean, I know what I am doing wrong (knees past toes, bending too far forward) but I just can't seem to make my body do it right!

claston77

Are you 'practicing' with an empty bar by chance? I know with just the bar I felt off balance and out of control with my squats. When I added a couple of plates my form and balance really improved. Strange right? But even when I tried the broomstick and mirror idea so many are in favor of it was useless, for me anyway...I had to 'feel' everything I read, watched aand studied about form. Guess I'm a strange one :laugh:

sun_fish

Are you 'practicing' with an empty bar by chance? I know with just the bar I felt off balance and out of control with my squats. When I added a couple of plates my form and balance really improved. Strange right? But even when I tried the broomstick and mirror idea so many are in favor of it was useless, for me anyway...I had to 'feel' everything I read, watched aand studied about form. Guess I'm a strange one :laugh:

Yes, an empty bar. Right now for my goblet squats I am doing 25 pounds. My bar is 15 - so wouldn't be adding a lot of weight but maybe the extra 10 would help? And when you say you felt off balance, that is exactly how I feel. I am going to give this a try, thanks!

claston77

I used an empty Olympic bar to start, 45 pounds, but it was so long that I couldn't balance it on my shoulders. So when I would squat I was so worried to keep the bar level that the rest of my form was shot. Adding a five pound plate to each side helped a lot though.

And I do my warmup with a 30 lb dumbbell as a goblet squat and some days my 65 lb barbell squats feel easier than my warmup :laugh:

paprad

I have a light bar too - around 13lb, so I thought that I would do one set with it + plates and one set with my dumbbells, so as to transition.

karindiane - i think the form with a barbell on low back is quite different from a goblet squat, so some amount of leaning forward and knees over toes would be inevitable, or so it seems from those anatomical pics on SS, no?

sun_fish

I have a light bar too - around 13lb, so I thought that I would do one set with it + plates and one set with my dumbbells, so as to transition.

karindiane - i think the form with a barbell on low back is quite different from a goblet squat, so some amount of leaning forward and knees over toes would be inevitable, or so it seems from those anatomical pics on SS, no?

You know the more I think about this (or rather obsess about it), you are probably right that I am trying to duplicate my goblet squat form, and it isn't going to be the same as a barbell squat. Of course knowing that doesn't solve the awkward, unbalanced feeling I have. I was going to try what claston77 recommended, which was to add some weight to my bb. But yesterday was heavy day, 10 reps, and I think a combination of high humidity (which I'm not used to, I live in So Cal) and not adequate sleep, it was all I could do to get through my workout. I just didn't feel up to messing around with that bb. I'll see how I feel on my medium or light day this week.

The other thing I realized, is that even my goblet squat form started out a little sketchy. I need to be a little more patient with myself and remember that my form will not be perfect when I am still very much a beginner.

sun_fish

I have really been paying attention to my core when doing All Pro's since this thread. Sometimes it is easier than other times but overall I think I am improving. I recently added some new plants that need to be watered manually until we get the sprinklers to them. Today I filled up a 2 gallon bucket 6 times to water them. After the second time I realized that I was engaging my core when I lifted and carried the bucket!