Does weightlifting counts as cross training?
Tacklewasher
Posts: 7,122 Member
Putting together a half marathon plan, but I already lift 3 times a week. Does it make sens to count that as cross training? Or do I need to spend time on a bike as well?
Thanks
Thanks
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Replies
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I am no expert -- ergo, I should probably keep my opinion to myself -- but I think that definitely counts as cross-training.
If you are lifting, you are strengthening core and leg muscles to a degree that running does not. But having those muscles strong, and used to firing, will definitely help your running.
Now, as to the bike?
Meh.
The bike might be a way to train aerobic capacity while sparing your body some of the pounding that comes with running. But I cannot think that it would add enough to make it worthwhile. If you are training for a half marathon, you are running a lot. You are getting your aerobic workout. Anything of that sort on top of the running is probably just added fatigue that you don't want.
Good luck!
PS One more thing: I find that heavy lifting tends to interfere with my running. For example, the day after a session of heavy deadlifting, my legs are leaden. I run really slowly. And, if you train yourself to run slowly too often you are going to run slowly.
Therefore, at some point before your race, you might want to cut back on your lifting days or to deload a bit.
Just a thought. A person can do two things. But it is difficult to do two competing things well at the same time. If you are going to race, you might want to put the primary emphasis on running.2 -
I think strength training is an important part of a training plan, but I don't think I'd class it as cross training. I know Hal higdon doesn't, and apparently he knows stuff about running :laugh:
I'd swap a lifting day to be a bike day personally.
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TavistockToad wrote: »I think strength training is an important part of a training plan, but I don't think I'd class it as cross training. I know Hal higdon doesn't, and apparently he knows stuff about running :laugh:
I'd swap a lifting day to be a bike day personally.
Just kinda bugs me that I see these plans (Higdon, Fitzgerald) with no mention of strength training.
<<shrug>>1 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »I think strength training is an important part of a training plan, but I don't think I'd class it as cross training. I know Hal higdon doesn't, and apparently he knows stuff about running :laugh:
I'd swap a lifting day to be a bike day personally.
Just kinda bugs me that I see these plans (Higdon, Fitzgerald) with no mention of strength training.
<<shrug>>
I am not sure what you guys are talking about here?
I think the most prominent proponent of cross-training for runners has been Alberto Salazar. He was the first to make it a big deal anyhow.
Now, it is true that the gym-exercises program that Salazar advocates is not what any serious weight lifter would consider weight training.
I think that is true for running coaching generally. For example, look at what Runner's World proposes as 'strength training.' It's push-ups, leg lifts and some 15-lbs dumbbell work.
None of it ever is barbells and progressive overload, etc.
Is that what you guys are talking about?
If it is, I would argue that things are evolving. Cross training has to make you stronger to make a difference in running. Otherwise, what is the point? To get stronger you kinda gotta push yourself hard and one of the ways to do that is with heavy weights. A couple of leg lifts and planks, every other day, isn't going to bring much progress.
Personally, I do a lot of sprinting, stairs running, and some plyometrics stuff. I think it keeps me strong. But I go pretty darn hard --eg, one-mile warm-up then 15-20 100-m sprints with 1-3 minutes rest in between.
PS In Higdon's defense ... you are talking about training that is pretty 'old-school' anymore.0 -
@tacklewasher He talking about it in the plan I'm using - marathon novice 2 I think it is.
Basically says it's good to do some, but running is your primary focus, so if you need to drop something, drop the weights.1 -
TavistockToad wrote: »@tacklewasher He talking about it in the plan I'm using - marathon novice 2 I think it is.
Basically says it's good to do some, but running is your primary focus, so if you need to drop something, drop the weights.
If you read the text above the plans on Hal Higdon's website you'll see he does actually recommend strength training twice a week in addition to the running and cross training he spells out in the plans. For the novice plans if I remember correctly he recommends doing your strength training after the Tuesday and Thursday runs...0 -
I guess I want some of both worlds.
Have a PT who has me on a 3 X a week training plan focused on core work, getting me standing straighter, less back pain and that kind of thing. A mix of heavy weightlifting and core work is how I could best describe it. No bike work (although he hasn't given me the day 3 workout yet) but I am pushing and pulling that damn cart.
I also just finished reading the 80/20 running book and want to increase my easy mileage. But there is this white stuff out there now making that a bit tough.
I'm guess I'm going to have to figure out how to keep the core workouts (which is more important right now than running), until March/April and re-jig things when the snow is gone.
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TavistockToad wrote: »@tacklewasher He talking about it in the plan I'm using - marathon novice 2 I think it is.
Basically says it's good to do some, but running is your primary focus, so if you need to drop something, drop the weights.
I have found that to be true, basically. If you are trying to improve your running, you have to run well when you run and you probably have to run well about four times a week. Lifting heavy interferes with that. It just does.
Probably the PT has given you your core routine, but if you are looking for something different or more there is a Youtube channel on running that I like, called coachjayjohnson. He has a number of core routines for runners that he shows. One he calls "core routine x" and its a fairly reasonable routine of side planks, v-sits, table-tops, and the like, held for about 30 seconds each. It's the kind of thing you can do after a run.
He's also got a "core routine H." In the demo video he has his runner do each exercise for a minute. If you do that, it's pretty brutal.0 -
@tacklewasher is your trainer a runner, or works specifically with runners?0
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TavistockToad wrote: »@tacklewasher is your trainer a runner, or works specifically with runners?
No. He's the only PT they have at the gym. But to be fair, I do think he is focused on the correct things, even if they are not all running related. I discussed with him my running goals and made it clear I'm lifting to support them, but the explained that I have back issues (I usually have back pain) and feel I have hip flexor issues. He ran me through some tests and has tailored the initial plan to address these.
He's got me off of SL and is working more on posture and core items (which I do think is the right approach).
Hell. If he helps my back pain, Im happy with running slower
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I was a weight lifter before I was a runner. At my peak, I worked up to squatting my body weight and deadlifting about 135% of my body weight. To a certain extent, the heavy lifting works against running efficiency. I am now a marathon runner. I haven't squatted more than 50% of my body weight in years, and I have given up deadlifts entirely.
OTOH, when I was only lifting weights I maxed out the one-leg calf raises on a step with a 15 lb. weight. I now use 50 lbs.
To support running, consistency of strength training is more important than intensity of strength training. And you will find that there is something you need to be consistent with to support your weakest area. You will probably find that weakest area by getting injured, if you don't already know what it is.
I do need to get back to doing kettlebell swings, Turkish get-ups, and windmills. I haven't been doing those consistently lately, and my back tells me about it after tough running workouts. Other than that, I'm happy with an eclectic mix of exercises to mostly strengthen supporting and stabilizing muscles and tendons that weight lifters don't talk about.
Addressing weak core and weak hip flexors will likely help your running more than weight lifting for quads and hamstrings, assuming you aren't noticing any problems with the quads or hamstrings after you run. It's the weakest part of your running chain that will get hurt and keep you from running. What part is weakest will vary from one runner to the next.4 -
I concur with MobyCarp above. The basic point is to make weight training specifically support and enhance your event and not to have it work against you. Distance running specific stuff will emphasize lighter weight, stabilizers, flexibility and core work and not much in the way of heavy prime movers. (Except short distance runners in the offseason portion of their training cycle.) Think of squats done on a fit ball or 1 legged deadlifts with a kettlebell in 1 hand performed on a bosu ball. Address the entire muscle chain and look for weaknesses.0
