Training and Racing Pacing strategy
ZenInTexas
Posts: 781 Member
I am going to be starting training soon for a full marathon, my first. During that training period I will also be running a half and a 25k. My goal pace for the marathon is 10 minute mile. (Yes, slow, I know) However my goal pace for the half is a 9:30 or better. During training my plan calls for runs to be done at "Race Pace" So my question is do I do those at 9:30 until the half is over and then drop down to 10? Or do them at 10? Or am I over thinking this since there isn't a ton of difference in speed between those?
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10 minute mile isn't slow for a marathon IMO...that's what I'm hoping to do it in. Or maybe even slower - I've decided since I'm running my first in Disney, I want to actually enjoy it...so I think I'll just be taking mine easy and since it's my first I won't have a time to beat yet!
But as for training, how soon are the Half and 25K before the full? I'm thinking you could train for them at the 9:30 pace, and then just switch once they're over.
OR you could add one day per week in where you do some sort of speedwork that gets you comfortable at the 9:30 pace? And then still do your long runs at 10 min/mile pace?
Just ideas...I'm no expert! Good luck on all of them though!0 -
The half is 10 weeks before the full, and the 25k 8 weeks before. They're set up to be all a part of the same race series. I will be doing 2 days a week with speed work, a mid week medium distance run at easy pace, a second day at either easy pace or race pace depending on the what the plan calls for and the LSD, 5 days per week of running. My easy pace and race pace are pretty close to the same. Which probably means I need to do the easy pace slower or race faster.
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I sone race more important to you than the other? Speaking of finish time. I would gear the training towards the more important. But with 10 weeks you really could focus on both0
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The half is 10 weeks before the full, and the 25k 8 weeks before. They're set up to be all a part of the same race series. I will be doing 2 days a week with speed work, a mid week medium distance run at easy pace, a second day at either easy pace or race pace depending on the what the plan calls for and the LSD, 5 days per week of running. My easy pace and race pace are pretty close to the same. Which probably means I need to do the easy pace slower or race faster.
I'm curious where you came up with a marathon training plan that calls for two out of the five days to be speed work. That seems like too much to me. I would think one day, or even no days, of speed work would be, not only more than sufficient, but also a better fit for someone preparing for a marathon at around a 10:00 mile pace. When you do speed work in marathon training, it decrease the amount of time on your feet for that particular session (as you are running shorter and faster), which is counter to what you need to do to develop an aerobic base. Additionally, the stress of that speed session will inhibit your ability to do the next day's run at an optimal level.
If it were me, I would do nearly all of my training at somewhere between 9 and 10 minutes per mile with maybe 20 minutes a week of something "comfortably hard" mixed into the medium long run. Maybe even throw in some strides (5 to 10) once per week at the end of one of the runs.
To directly answer your question, if the plan is a marathon specific plan, then "race pace" is marathon pace. I would stick with the MP number until after you have completed the HM. Then, you can use your time there to extrapolate out what your marathon finish time would be (then add 15 minutes to that time as I think you are first time marathoner) and if that number is a wildly different pace than the one at which you have been training, you still have plenty of time to adjust.0 -
As far as finishing time the half marathon is more important. I want to do well. My goal for the marathon is to finish in a non-embarrassing time.I sone race more important to you than the other? Speaking of finish time. I would gear the training towards the more important. But with 10 weeks you really could focus on both0 -
The half is 10 weeks before the full, and the 25k 8 weeks before. They're set up to be all a part of the same race series. I will be doing 2 days a week with speed work, a mid week medium distance run at easy pace, a second day at either easy pace or race pace depending on the what the plan calls for and the LSD, 5 days per week of running. My easy pace and race pace are pretty close to the same. Which probably means I need to do the easy pace slower or race faster.
I'm curious where you came up with a marathon training plan that calls for two out of the five days to be speed work. That seems like too much to me. I would think one day, or even no days, of speed work would be, not only more than sufficient, but also a better fit for someone preparing for a marathon at around a 10:00 mile pace. When you do speed work in marathon training, it decrease the amount of time on your feet for that particular session (as you are running shorter and faster), which is counter to what you need to do to develop an aerobic base. Additionally, the stress of that speed session will inhibit your ability to do the next day's run at an optimal level.
If it were me, I would do nearly all of my training at somewhere between 9 and 10 minutes per mile with maybe 20 minutes a week of something "comfortably hard" mixed into the medium long run. Maybe even throw in some strides (5 to 10) once per week at the end of one of the runs.
To directly answer your question, if the plan is a marathon specific plan, then "race pace" is marathon pace. I would stick with the MP number until after you have completed the HM. Then, you can use your time there to extrapolate out what your marathon finish time would be (then add 15 minutes to that time as I think you are first time marathoner) and if that number is a wildly different pace than the one at which you have been training, you still have plenty of time to adjust.
I'm following a mix of Higdon's Intermediate 2 and another plan. My mistake, it has ONE day of speed work, not 2. That's basically the only change I made to the plan. I feel like I have to add in one day where I push myself or I get lazy and just run really slow all the time. Pretty much what you describe is what I will be doing. Thanks for the feedback!0 -
Generally, a pace run should be within 5% of goal pace to contribute towards building running economy at that pace. So, if your target is 10 min/mi then 5% of that is 30 sec. So, any run between 9:30 and 10:30 is good.
However, I agree with Carson that you need to run max effort for the half marathon and reevaluate your goal marathon pace based on that.0 -
have to agree that speed work 2 times a week is a bit much. I do intervals once a week and that has been plenty for the last two years to improve my times. I have ran with people that do 2 speed sessions a week and they have problems at one of the sessions (unfortunately last night was one) where they could barely finish and felt horrible the second set of intervals. 2 times just seems like it would not be optimal.0
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have to agree that speed work 2 times a week is a bit much. I do intervals once a week and that has been plenty for the last two years to improve my times. I have ran with people that do 2 speed sessions a week and they have problems at one of the sessions (unfortunately last night was one) where they could barely finish and felt horrible the second set of intervals. 2 times just seems like it would not be optimal.
It's not 2, it's one.
I'll go fix that error now... 0 -
have to agree that speed work 2 times a week is a bit much. I do intervals once a week and that has been plenty for the last two years to improve my times. I have ran with people that do 2 speed sessions a week and they have problems at one of the sessions (unfortunately last night was one) where they could barely finish and felt horrible the second set of intervals. 2 times just seems like it would not be optimal.
It's not 2, it's one. I'll go fix that error now...
Ok, I guess I can't edit it. So just for the record, that was a mistake. I meant to say one day. Not 2.0
