Competitor Group Ends Support for Elite Fields

CarsonRuns

This is another reason I won't run and "races" put on by this organization.

http://tinyurl.com/qdv5mov

scott091501

Sorry I'm missing why you have such an issue.

SonicDeathMonkey80

I would guess "corporatization" of the sport, and spitting in the face of those who put their overpriced/mass-marketed races on the map in the first place.

davemunger

I've never done a "Rock-n-roll" event. Just not my thing. But I certainly don't mind if other people like them -- leaves more room in the kind of races I prefer to run. I have to say, though, it's pretty cool to be in a race and know there are world-class runners running the exact same course as you.

At the Atlanta Peachtree 10K I was actually warming up right next to Meb Keflezghi -- neat experience. Of course, once the starting gun went off all the elites were out of sight within seconds, but it's still cool to know they are there.

scott091501

I would guess "corporatization" of the sport, and spitting in the face of those who put their overpriced/mass-marketed races on the map in the first place.

Sorry as someone who deals with the WTC on a regular basis I'm missing it. The Competitor group is a for profit company. They don't feel it will hurt their bottom line if they don't pay the way for elites and honestly the target audience for the majority of RNR races isn't the hardcore runner, it's the folks looking for the experience.

I get the racing next to the pros. I've had the chance to meet several of the top 10 male/female pros in triathlon. If that's what attracts you to a race then go to those races.

glin23

This is another reason I won't run and "races" put on by this organization.

http://tinyurl.com/qdv5mov

Not suprised, but then again, not the worst transgression by CGI.

CarsonRuns

Sorry I'm missing why you have such an issue.

At a client site right now. I'll expound on this later.

CarsonRuns

Sorry I'm missing why you have such an issue.

Competitor Group has a history of making decisions that negatively impact the running community. They came along when we, as a society, were experiencing another running boom. As a business, they made a good decision to cash in on this. But what they have done, in order to enrich their stakeholders, has negatively impacted road running in general, and road racing specifically.

Since CGI arrived on the scene, prices for large road races that they manage have, in many cases, more than doubled. This makes it financially more difficult for the serious road racer. Someone who may have been able to enter a dozen races a year, may have to cut back to 6 to 8. This hasn't impacted the casual runner, as they don't typically race that frequently and are more likely to pay the higher prices for a race.

Which brings me to another point. These "races" have become more events than race. With a band at the start and every mile thereafter. These things are a draw for the casual runner looking for an event, but there are many runners that don't give two squirts about a band on the course, as long as the course is accurately timed and measured and has adequate water stops. You may say that the participants are driving these changes, but it's more that all the other race events have had to add entertainment to "keep up with the Jones" and not get squeezed out of the picture.

Now, for a couple of specific reason that I have a problem with CGI.

1. There used to be a thriving online running community called Cool Running. They had an extremely active forum that was populated by many runners of all talent levels, sharing ideas and knowledge and having a good time. For some reason, a decision was made to move the forums to Active.com, a CGI company. This transition could have worked nicely, but Active destroyed the sense of community by censoring voices on the forum by deleting posts that they didn't like or that weren't flattering toward the company, the transition was fraught with problems that they failed to address, they didn't listen to any of the requests or suggestions from the existing members and the community splintered and went off in all sorts of directions, many of them ending up and RunningAhead.com.

2. Active.com's ridiculous processing fees for signing up for a race.

3. CGI took over a fantastic race in Philadelphia called the Philadelphia Distance Run, and half marathon that was flat, fast, scenic and accessible. Since they took over, they have added bands and doubled the entry fee. Then, then made the decision to reverse the course so they would have an even larger area to have bands and festivities at the end of the race. It just doesn't work going in the opposite direction. It's a travesty.

4. The debacle at the Las Vegas marathon a couple years ago. Many people fell ill after that race, there was ungodly congestion at the finish where it was taking up to an hour to get through the finish chute to where the water was. Oh, and the water. They used water from fire hydrants on the course at the aid stations. They hosed it into trash cans and then used pitchers to scoop it out do fill the cups. Yes, everything was supposed to have been completely sanitary, but...by the later stages of the race, they had run out of cups, volunteers left their posts and some participants where using USED CUPS to scoop their own cups of water from the trash cans. When the CGI CEO was asked about the hose water, he stated that "all the major marathons" used hose water. A poll of race directors of the top 12 US marathon not run by CGI found that NONE of the others used hose water. They all use bottled water. So, not only did they make a questionable decision to use the hose water, they then lied to the public about the prevalence of this practice.

So, this last bit of news about the elimination of appearance fees and lodging for elites and not honoring agreements that are already in place, is just another example of how CGI's "bottom line first" has been a major detriment to the sport of running. I totally get that businesses goal is to make money, but there has to be a balance with what is right for the industry that you are in and what margins are acceptable. I don't believe that CGI cares one iota about road racing. They are simply using it as a vehicle to line their pockets and will drop it like a hot potato the minute it takes a downturn. If they truly cared about growing the sport organically, they wouldn't make these types of decisions that fly in the face of reason.

scott091501

I'll give you that the not honoring previous agreement issue is problematic and should tick off some folks but what it seems to me they are doing is shifting the demographic they're targeting from the serious runner to the person looking to run one maybe two "events" a year. My guess is that target population is much larger and more willing to pay huge entry fees for an experience than the competitive runner is.

IMO it isn't their job to foster the growth of the sport in the top ends of fields. That is the job of USA Track and Field, RRCA, etc. If folks like you leave in big enough droves than there will be a company that comes in and fills that void.

55in13

I'll give you that the not honoring previous agreement issue is problematic and should tick off some folks but what it seems to me they are doing is shifting the demographic they're targeting from the serious runner to the person looking to run one maybe two "events" a year. My guess is that target population is much larger and more willing to pay huge entry fees for an experience than the competitive runner is.

IMO it isn't their job to foster the growth of the sport in the top ends of fields. That is the job of USA Track and Field, RRCA, etc. If folks like you leave in big enough droves than there will be a company that comes in and fills that void.

This sort of echoes my sentiments. They definitely should honor any previous specific commitments. I am a casual runner and have no plans to ever be competitive. I like having fun races with bands and beer tents as an option. I have nothing against races that are more serious, but I don't think every company that puts on races has an obligation to make their races seriously competitive.

mellorunner

I don't have the link on hand, but in another write up about this move someone (I believe on Letsrun.com) posted a link to a great blog writeup on the "desportification" of running. I agree with a lot of that sentiment.

CarsonRuns

I don't have the link on hand, but in another write up about this move someone (I believe on Letsrun.com) posted a link to a great blog writeup on the "desportification" of running. I agree with a lot of that sentiment.

This one?

http://physi-kult.blogspot.ca/2012/02/de-sportification-of-running-p-k-poy.html

55in13

I don't have the link on hand, but in another write up about this move someone (I believe on Letsrun.com) posted a link to a great blog writeup on the "desportification" of running. I agree with a lot of that sentiment.

This one?

http://physi-kult.blogspot.ca/2012/02/de-sportification-of-running-p-k-poy.html

Interesting. This part:

In this latest boom, everyone but an increasingly tiny subculture, it would seem, is happy to see road running turn from an erstwhile sport into a vehicle for health promotion and doing charitable good.

I am only somewhat in agreement with. Why can't it be both?
I disagree with the writer's opinion that the younger generation does not see it as a competitive sport, as I have younger relatives who do run competitively. One of my kids even tried out for the middle school track team and did not make the cut; the competitive team is popular enough that tryouts are well attended and not nearly everyone makes it.

SonicDeathMonkey80

Will the casual "event" participants ever lace up their shoes if they aren't being chased by "zombies," having dye thrown at them, listening to bands play as they run by, or being seen by a zillion people (aka, the "health promotion fashion show")? I get the "everybody is a runner" movement, and I understand that a profit motive can (and, in a smart business sense, should) be attached to it. But when these "events" horn in on the culture/traditions of races/running (Carson's example of messing up Philadelphia) and eventually cut corners to squeeze profits (hose water, buckets, Active.com), it gives the casuals the wrong impression of how the sport really goes (waiting around 2 hours after the gun to cross the start line). I don't think the point here is to make everything "strictly competitive," but rather not to cheapen and degrade it.

scott091501

Will the casual "event" participants ever lace up their shoes if they aren't being chased by "zombies," having dye thrown at them, listening to bands play as they run by, or being seen by a zillion people (aka, the "health promotion fashion show")? I get the "everybody is a runner" movement, and I understand that a profit motive can (and, in a smart business sense, should) be attached to it. But when these "events" horn in on the culture/traditions of races/running (Carson's example of messing up Philadelphia) and eventually cut corners to squeeze profits (hose water, buckets, Active.com), it gives the casuals the wrong impression of how the sport really goes (waiting around 2 hours after the gun to cross the start line). I don't think the point here is to make everything "strictly competitive," but rather not to cheapen and degrade it.

Are there not races that cater to that crowd though? There are several local halves and fulls here in Houston as well as the Houston Marathon/Half Marathon that fit the bill. There is also the Rhythm and Blues Half that has bands every mile or so. Same deal. I just don't see the big deal. This group caters to one crowd of "runners", another company will cater to a group looking for something else out of their race day experience. Yet another reason to support local RDs.

mellorunner

I don't have the link on hand, but in another write up about this move someone (I believe on Letsrun.com) posted a link to a great blog writeup on the "desportification" of running. I agree with a lot of that sentiment.

This one?

http://physi-kult.blogspot.ca/2012/02/de-sportification-of-running-p-k-poy.html

That's the one!

55in13

To be fair to Carson, he did say that's another reason he won't run in their races, not they should not be allowed to do this.

scott091501

To be fair to Carson, he did say that's another reason he won't run in their races, not they should not be allowed to do this.

Agreed

DavidMartinez2

I will add the Rock N Roll Marathon was bought out by an investment group several years ago which was itself bought out by a different group earlier this year. These are people who care nothing of running and only of profits. To pursue said profits they have cancelled several Half Marathons months in advance due to lack of support; I guess you can only get people to pay excessive race fees so many times.

RenewedRunner

2. Active.com's ridiculous processing fees for signing up for a race.



AMEN! That makes me so mad, for some reason I have to pay a website for registering after I just paid the race organization an arm and a leg. I was so upset about that with the Marine Corp Marathon-especially when the site didn't even work!!!!!

I will add that we in my family do the fun runs for that-fun. To me it is a good way to get some quality family time in while setting an example for my sons. They are super excited about the Color Run again. They ran a small local 5k last year after having done the Color Run and having so much fun. To me the value of the silly, themed race are that it makes my kids interested. I call them the gateway drug for running-would they have ran the 5k without ever having done the Color Run? Maybe. But because they had enjoyed themselves previously, they were gung ho excited to do something again. And we use races as our "get off the couch" motivators. They LOVE to get finisher medals and my oldest has requested to join the local USATF team and be a "real" runner. *My oldest was VERY upset that he lost to another kid in his age group by 1 minute and so has been running sprints lately. He understands competition but nothing wrong with some fun too.

(But does anyone think things like Color Run are real running events?? I don't call them races. NO one really runs at them any ways and they aren't timed!)