training on 2 consecutive days?

neandermagnon

How bad is it doing training on 2 consecutive days in the week, but still having enough rest during the week?

My work schedule is hectic on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday, while wed- sat I have much more time. So maybe doing Wed, Thurs and Sat for my 3 workouts a weeks is the best way to fit all the training in. I generally get DOMS 2 days after a workout and feel fine to do another workout the following day, although I've not tried this (in terms of recovery the following day) and I get 3 days of rest sun mon and tues (in terms of exercise... I'm busy all day but I'm just sitting or standing at work)

bumblebums

This is not general advice to everyone, guys, just Neandermagnon.

I think you have already pushed the limits of the novice progression, since you are beginning to get stuck. So I would either do a twice-weekly program with two rest days in-between (Wednesday and Saturday) or make your second day in a row a light day, where you still do something but at an intensity of maybe 80% of the previous day. If you try to lift the same or greater amount the day after you lifted, you will likely find that the weights just aren't gonna budge. What happens in response to training stress is this:

1. Stress applied
2. You get weaker while recovering
3. You get stronger and overshoot your ability to perform

The 1,2,3 cycle takes 24 to 72 hours in a novice--that is, you lift on Monday, you are weaker/recovering on Tuesday, then you are actually stronger on Wednesday than you were on Monday and can lift more weight.

In a more intermediate trainee, the cycle takes more like a week. Thus, if you lift on Monday and find that on Wednesday, you are weaker, and you are about as strong on Friday as you were on Monday, you are no longer recovering like a novice, and you are going to regress further if you try to apply novice-style programming.

lwoodroff

BB, although you are applying it to Neandermagnon, it's the most succinct definition of when you move from being a newbie to an intermediate that I've read - thank you! Once I fix my form issues, I'll be keeping an eye out on my performance too. Thanks!

bumblebums

Thanks, Lydia!

It's only succinct because there are a bunch of caveats I didn't mention, like making sure that you eat enough and that your form is not an obstacle to progress. Form is a major one, because lots of people can lift things with bad form, but eventually your strength will be no match against the mechanical inefficiency of bad form.

Also, linear progression programs provide the most efficient gains, so one must try to milk those as long as possible. If you are still recovering and making incremental progress, then stick to LP--reset the weight up to two-three times if you get stuck, but LP will always be faster than periodization.

There is a variant of linear programs for advanced novices for whom recovery is a problem: make your Wednesday a light day (assuming MWF training). Thus, if you are doing Starting Strength, you would do 3x5 squats, etc. on Monday, then 2x5 light squats on Wednesday, then 3x5 squats again with 5 extra pounds on the bar on Friday. This keeps the linear nature of the program and allows you to add 10 lb to the bar each week instead of 5 lb. That could be an option for Neandermagnon as well, depending on how recovery goes.

neandermagnon

BB, although you are applying it to Neandermagnon, it's the most succinct definition of when you move from being a newbie to an intermediate that I've read - thank you! Once I fix my form issues, I'll be keeping an eye out on my performance too. Thanks!

I totally agree!

BB: that sounds like a really good plan i.e. lighter day in the middle, i.e. wed, light day thurs, then sat. thank you it's all really useful advice, thank you and I'll look at how quickly I'm recovering, because I didn't know about that before and wasn't paying attention to actual strength, just presence/lack of DOMS which doesn't seem to affect strength (or not that I've noticed anyway)

bumblebums

Right--here are some signs that you are *not* recovering:

* Appetite is down
* Sleep is disrupted--in the early stages of overtraining, you'll find sleep difficult
* Performance is not only stalled but regressing
* Muscles soreness and feeling of fatigue that does not go away no matter how well you rest between training sessions

If you've been lifting for a while, are older, are not eating at maintenance/surplus, or are not giving yourself a full rest between sessions, these are all important signs to watch out for. It is actually hard to truly overtrain a novice lifter, because they are defined by their ability to recover fast. But a more intermediate or advanced trainee will take longer to recover. There are nightmare stories of crushing depression and months if not years of decreased performance for advanced athletes. Of course, advanced athletes take a month or more to recover from a disruptive stimulus, so this probably doesn't apply to any of us. Still, overtraining is a b!tch and should be avoided.

Finally, lest it seem that I'm so smart I thought this up on my own, I should add that I learned much of this from Rippetoe and Kilgore's Practical Programming book. Again, highly recommended.

neandermagnon

thank you, that's extremely helpful :flowerforyou: :drinker: