Long run pace and effort
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_Waffle_
Posts: 13,049 Member
I did this run yesterday. Ignore the oddity of mile 6 & 7. My running app was a bit off there.
Essentially I did the first 10 at about a 9:10 pace which is my goal for the marathon in December. The temperature was in the mid 50s yesterday and the first 10 miles felt easy, easy! My pulse was sitting around 150 which is something I can do forever. I am going to do a half marathon in October so I wanted a bit more speed in the workout and picked up the pace after mile 10 till I was hitting about 160 bpm. This was some effort but nothing that made me out of breath or tired. The last two miles I just let myself have as much fun as I wanted. I was actually trying to slowly reel in another runner that was ahead of me, caught them with a mile to go and just kept going till the end.
I know you're supposed to do the long runs slower but if I feel this good after the run then this was a good pace right? I really don't have much data to go on here. The only half I've ever raced (1:58:22) was in 80 degree weather in a cloudburst for nearly 10 miles and I was sick the week before, barely ran, and lost about 4 pounds from under eating/throwing up so that sucks as a benchmark. My best guess for what's possible was a 15 mile run at an 8:35 pace a few weeks before and that felt amazing the entire time. I guess I just need to be patient and run the half and get another estimate for what I need.
I'm probably not going to go over 16 till I do this half but my question is on pacing and doing the longer 18 and 20 mile runs. Is it fine to do the entire thing at my guesstimate as to what my marathon pace will be or should I try running the entire thing a bit slower? I'm just barely sore from yesterday and that's probably just from the last two miles. Feet, shins, knees are all 100% and it's just the inner hamstrings that are a tad sore. I'm 100% confident that 20 miles at a 9:00 - 9:10 pace isn't going to be too big of a deal at all. Over a 9:00 pace feels pretty relaxed. Why would I do it slower than that?
I've seen some estimators that say I should be running an 11:00 pace for marathon training. I don't know if I can run that slow. I'll be prancing like a Tennessee Walker or dragging my feet.
Essentially I did the first 10 at about a 9:10 pace which is my goal for the marathon in December. The temperature was in the mid 50s yesterday and the first 10 miles felt easy, easy! My pulse was sitting around 150 which is something I can do forever. I am going to do a half marathon in October so I wanted a bit more speed in the workout and picked up the pace after mile 10 till I was hitting about 160 bpm. This was some effort but nothing that made me out of breath or tired. The last two miles I just let myself have as much fun as I wanted. I was actually trying to slowly reel in another runner that was ahead of me, caught them with a mile to go and just kept going till the end.
I know you're supposed to do the long runs slower but if I feel this good after the run then this was a good pace right? I really don't have much data to go on here. The only half I've ever raced (1:58:22) was in 80 degree weather in a cloudburst for nearly 10 miles and I was sick the week before, barely ran, and lost about 4 pounds from under eating/throwing up so that sucks as a benchmark. My best guess for what's possible was a 15 mile run at an 8:35 pace a few weeks before and that felt amazing the entire time. I guess I just need to be patient and run the half and get another estimate for what I need.
I'm probably not going to go over 16 till I do this half but my question is on pacing and doing the longer 18 and 20 mile runs. Is it fine to do the entire thing at my guesstimate as to what my marathon pace will be or should I try running the entire thing a bit slower? I'm just barely sore from yesterday and that's probably just from the last two miles. Feet, shins, knees are all 100% and it's just the inner hamstrings that are a tad sore. I'm 100% confident that 20 miles at a 9:00 - 9:10 pace isn't going to be too big of a deal at all. Over a 9:00 pace feels pretty relaxed. Why would I do it slower than that?
I've seen some estimators that say I should be running an 11:00 pace for marathon training. I don't know if I can run that slow. I'll be prancing like a Tennessee Walker or dragging my feet.
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I'M DAMN IMPRESSED that you could keep that pice through 16 miles.
*bows down*0 -
Honestly, you can have a goal pace in mind for the 18-20 mile runs... but what inevitably happens (especially if it's the first time) is that you're glad to finish the run running any pace. I would not run a lot slower than what feels comfortable, but I would advise that you start off at a pace closer to 9/9:30 minutes per mile and increase the speed as you get closer to the end, if you feel up to it. I'm sure there are other opinions on this matter, but from my experience, unless I had already done the distance and was pretty well fueled with enough fuel to eat at mile 16, I significantly slowed down the last miles.
Great run for 16 miles though, those are some nice splits.0 -
alternate my long runs. I do one at an easy steady pace, then the next weekend I start off slow, pick it up in the middle, then finish fast. It has been working very well for my marathons and halfs.0
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Bump. Will respond later. On my tablet right now.0
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There is little reason to do large chunks of your long runs at better-than-marathon pace.
But it's possible that your target pace is too slow. Have you used the calculators at mcmillanrunning.com to determine what a reasonable goal pace for a marathon is? If you've done a 5K or 10K race you can plug those numbers in and it will give you an estimate as to what your marathon pace should be (after you train for it). Maybe you are underestimating what you are capable of.
That said, learning how to run at the appropriate (slow) long run pace is critical because it will help you avoid injury, recover faster, and get ready for your other workouts (where you may indeed be running faster than race pace).0 -
That's an excellent article. It does seem to go well with some of what I've seen Carson say about depriving yourself of carbs during your long run. Perhaps this is a great approach for me. This will give me the long slow approach that I've seen elsewhere and will also allow me to have some times when I can push myself towards the end and finish strong. I like it. It seems that this is well thought out and I can make myself do some long runs at a slow, slow pace as long as I can get it through my head that perhaps the next week I'll do a faster finish.
I've been struggling with my longer runs the last month or two with the 80+ degree weather (Before sunup) and this was the first time in months I've had a run where I didn't feel overheated and didn't need to stop and walk after 13 miles. My energy level was amazing and perhaps I did use a bit too much of it. I'll definitely keep this in mind and next week I'll drag it out nice and slow. I do have this half coming up in mid October but my real focus is this full marathon in December. I've never done one before and this is all new to me.
Thanks for everyone's input. It really means a lot.0 -
It says I can do an 8:50 pace for a full marathon. That's perhaps a tad aggressive. I was thinking a 9:00 - 9:10 which would put me right at 4:00 hours. We'll see how this half October 12th works out. The marathon is December 8th so I still have time to make some adjustments.But it's possible that your target pace is too slow. Have you used the calculators at mcmillanrunning.com to determine what a reasonable goal pace for a marathon is? If you've done a 5K or 10K race you can plug those numbers in and it will give you an estimate as to what your marathon pace should be (after you train for it). Maybe you are underestimating what you are capable of.0 -
thanks for this! I'm doing my first full in about 4.5 weeks and was thinking about this very topic! I run training runs much faster than my marathon pace will be. I just can't see keeping the faster pace up for 26.2.0 -
Great article!0 -
If you input a race time in the McMillan calculator, you will see that the Easy Run and Long Run paces are not too far apart, so you shouldn't have to slow down your long run if you are running your easy runs at the correct pace. If you do have to slow down the long run to complete it, then a couple of things come to mind.
1. You are running the easy runs too fast (see calculator).
2. You are not running enough easy miles during the week to build the fitness required to run the long run at the same pace. This is where the axiom of the long run not being more than 1/4 to 1/3 of total weekly mileage comes into play. If you are training for a marathon and you are going to do a 20 mile training run, your weekly mileage should be 60 miles at a minimum. Okay, I know that is unrealistic for many first time marathoners, but leading up to that 20, I think this holds true. If your long run is 15 miles, you should be doing 45. As you progress, maybe the weekly mileage stays the same as you go to 20 and your weekly peak hits 50. I think that is reasonable for anyone that is expecting to do better than just finish a marathon.
As a general observation, there is no race pace that should be slower than your easy run pace. If you are someone that is doing your easy runs faster than your marathon pace, you are doing your training a disservice as the miles you are doing at that accelerated pace are not having near the effect on your aerobic fitness that running more slowly would.0 -
Just to echo what Carson is saying, I'm a member of a large running club, so I see a lot of our members get injured in the course of training for marathons. In nearly every case, these are people who always do their long runs and easy runs too fast. They say "it's just not comfortable to run that pace" or some such. Then, inevitably, 4 or 5 weeks later, they're complaining because they are sitting on the sidelines injured.
I'm one of the fastest members of my running group, but I run my easy runs *slower* than most of the other runners.
If you run the paces recommended by the McMillan calculator, you *significantly* decrease your chances of injury. It may feel awkward at first, but once you learn to run at a slower pace, it will not seem so uncomfortable.0 -
If you input a race time in the McMillan calculator, you will see that the Easy Run and Long Run paces are not too far apart, so you shouldn't have to slow down your long run if you are running your easy runs at the correct pace. I
Funny I've never noticed the training pace tab on this page. Here's what I got.
Easy Runs 8:46 - 9:45
Long Runs 8:48 - 10:07
Recovery Jogs 9:52 - 10:35
So I guess I wasn't too far off this last weekend then. I did the majority of this about about a 9:10 so that fits within the long run pace suggested. It felt really good. This all makes more sense now so now apparently I just need to ensure I do some of these longer runs at a nice easy pace the entire time.0 -
Funny I've never noticed the training pace tab on this page. Here's what I got.
They redid the website about a year or so ago. All that training data used to be on one page, but now you have to dig for it. I emailed them and voiced my displeasure, but it didn't make any difference. I need to stop assuming that everyone knows to click on that link!0 -
One of the key takeaways I've got out of McMillan's, and from the hardcore runners here, is that I don't do my slow/easy runs slow or easy enough. Definitely something I plan to address after my first full.0
