Finding the right balance

maruby95

Please bear with me- this is my first bulk so I'm still trying to figure this whole thing out .

The way I decided on my calorie goal was by taking my average burn (per FitBit over the past year) and simply adding 100 cals (for a total of 1800) a day to it as a starting place. I figure I can bump them up until I finding the right rate of gain (aiming for 1-2 lbs/ month). This seems simple enough on paper, but I'm finding that my mind is messing with me.

For example, yesterday I lifted and went for a walk and ended up burning 1877 cals (177 over average). I still only ate 1800 because I figured today would be a rest day and I would probably fall under 1700 cals burned. But as it turns out, I am going to burn at least 1700 today, which means that so far this week my average TDEE is above what I expected it to be. So do I up my calories beyond 1800 today so I keep my TDEE + 100, or do I just let it be and see how it averages out at the end of the week?

This process is new and foreign to me, so I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around the concept of purposefully eating more than I burn, on purpose, for a prolonged time :0. I find myself checking my FitBit all day to see how close to my 1700 target I am. If I burn more than that I'm not sure what to do about food, and if it looks like I won't hit 1700, I start moving to make sure I will because I'm afraid of gaining too fast.

Agh!! I really want to figure this out. I guess I just don't know how much to micromanage it. Anyone else going through this? Or have any advice?? Are you all eating the same calorie goal every day regardless of activity, or are you eating back exercise cals? Does it matter if I eat over TDEE every single day, or does it only matter that the weekly average is over TDEE?

Thanks for any words of wisdom,

anna

TriLifter

Hey Anna,

I'm kinda in the same boat you're in. I'l using my fitbit (www.fitbit.com/user/244PNM if you want to add me there) to determine my TDEE.

I've spent the last year running so much that my TDEE was around 2400, but total rest days I'm between 1800-1900, so I took 2000 as TDEE (knowing it would be a bit higher on days I work out than days I don't) and added 200 cals/day to that--eating 2200. Unfortunately, I guess I underestimated how active I am without running, because my TDEE for the last week was a bit over 2200. I pretty much ended up even in terms of intake and output (but I'm up 3 lbs on the scale thanks to TOM).

Pretty much I don't have an answer for you except that I get where you're coming from and I'm unsure what exactly to do as well.

- Leena

a_vettestingray

I think it really is just a guessing game. If it isn't too much work, can you plot out your weight daily to see the upward trend over a week, month, etc. If you haven't read Sara's (from ETP Group) fluffing log, you should check it out on her blog - it shows that everyone just has to guess and add, weight, add more or keep the same, or subtract based on the rate of game.

I used my fitbit last time and tried to eat just over what my projected burn would be for the day, but I didn't really gain any true weight over a three month period. This time, I wear my fitbit just to see if I can hit my step target, but don't use the data for bulking.

sarahstrezo

I've never used a BMF or a fitbit or anything like that.

What about ditching it and letting go with the daily numbers obsession and going with a flat number and evaluating each week?? Meaning....just pick what you think 100-200 over TDEE would be and eat that each day for a week. See how the scales moves and adjust from there.
Without knowing your stats....1800 seems a tad low for a TDEE. I've found that mine is actually quite a bit higher than I thought. You also have to remember, as we eat more food...our general energy throughout the day goes up, thus causing our NEAT to go up.

So, I guess if you find that using the info from the fitbit is driving you a bit crazy trying to keep each day so 'perfect', ditch it and go with a results based approach.

SonyaCele

I have no idea what the balance is either, but here is what i'm doing. After 6 months of maintaining on about 1600-1700, i figured that must be my maint level. So i start with a basic daily menu of about 1700, and since im lifting, i add in a pre or post workout snack of about 250-300 so that takes me up to about 2000. And if i'm hungry i'll eat more , and i'm generally hungry ALL the time , so i end up having an additiona 250-500 cal worth of snacks. So that has me up to 2250 to 2500 just depending what my body is asking for.
I do make sure i'm getting about 150g of protein a day, everythign else i am just going by how i feel and eating lots of fresh veggies, 2 servings of fruit, 2 -3 servings of whole grain, 2 servings of dairy, a protein shake and a butt load of fresh home cooked turkey . if i'm more hungry i have some more turkey or a handful of whole grain crackers. I try and stay content without stuffing myself.
i wore the bodymedia armband for over a year, i found when i was heavier it was more accurate but as i got lean and musclular , its no where near accurate, so i dont bother with it anymore. i log everything everday and take the long term averages of my weight and consumtion to get more accurate numbers.

maruby95

I think it really is just a guessing game. If it isn't too much work, can you plot out your weight daily to see the upward trend over a week, month, etc. If you haven't read Sara's (from ETP Group) fluffing log, you should check it out on her blog - it shows that everyone just has to guess and add, weight, add more or keep the same, or subtract based on the rate of game.

I used my fitbit last time and tried to eat just over what my projected burn would be for the day, but I didn't really gain any true weight over a three month period. This time, I wear my fitbit just to see if I can hit my step target, but don't use the data for bulking.

I agree. I do plot my weight daily and it appears that over the last 3 weeks it has stayed fairly stable, with the normal fluctuations of course. But when I'm aiming for a 2 lb gain in a month, I would really expect to see a big upward trend anyway. Just a slow and steady small increase. In theory anyway. Or maybe it tends to work more like weight loss where you go along do everything right with no results and then, BAM, one day 2 poinds falls off? Don't know. I guess we'll see.

I watched Sara's fluff log like a stalker . And I get what you mean about having to guess and adjust accordingly. That's good advice. I just need to be braver I think.

Thanks for the reply!

maruby95

I've never used a BMF or a fitbit or anything like that.

What about ditching it and letting go with the daily numbers obsession and going with a flat number and evaluating each week?? Meaning....just pick what you think 100-200 over TDEE would be and eat that each day for a week. See how the scales moves and adjust from there.
Without knowing your stats....1800 seems a tad low for a TDEE. I've found that mine is actually quite a bit higher than I thought. You also have to remember, as we eat more food...our general energy throughout the day goes up, thus causing our NEAT to go up.

So, I guess if you find that using the info from the fitbit is driving you a bit crazy trying to keep each day so 'perfect', ditch it and go with a results based approach.

Hi Sarah. Thanks for the reply. I think a flat number will definetly be best for my mental health in this process :0. I have always trusted my FitBit because so far if I eat at about my TDEE according to it, I maintain, so it must not be too far off. I'm 5'3", 105 lbs, and about 19% BF, and 41 years old- which doesn't give me a very high TDEE. Although it has occured to me that maybe I could get away with eating more and maintaining. It is very possible that my metabolism is slightly depressed from years of undereating. So far I'm maintaining on 200 cals a day more than I was maintaining on a month ago, so we'll see how far I can push it.

When I bump calories up, how fast would you recommend doing it? 100 per day more each week?

Thanks!

maruby95

I have no idea what the balance is either, but here is what i'm doing. After 6 months of maintaining on about 1600-1700, i figured that must be my maint level. So i start with a basic daily menu of about 1700, and since im lifting, i add in a pre or post workout snack of about 250-300 so that takes me up to about 2000. And if i'm hungry i'll eat more , and i'm generally hungry ALL the time , so i end up having an additiona 250-500 cal worth of snacks. So that has me up to 2250 to 2500 just depending what my body is asking for.
I do make sure i'm getting about 150g of protein a day, everythign else i am just going by how i feel and eating lots of fresh veggies, 2 servings of fruit, 2 -3 servings of whole grain, 2 servings of dairy, a protein shake and a butt load of fresh home cooked turkey . if i'm more hungry i have some more turkey or a handful of whole grain crackers. I try and stay content without stuffing myself.
i wore the bodymedia armband for over a year, i found when i was heavier it was more accurate but as i got lean and musclular , its no where near accurate, so i dont bother with it anymore. i log everything everday and take the long term averages of my weight and consumtion to get more accurate numbers.

Hi Sonya. Thanks for this. Couple of questions: when you were maintaining on 1600-1700 were you lifting then? And how did you come up with 250-300 extra cals from lifting? I honestly don't even take lifting into account in my TDEE because when I log it FitBit (or MFP) gives me like 5 additional calories burned, or sometimes even takes some away! I think that's because I tend to walk around between sets which makes the FitBit think I'm doing something aerobic. So I don't even log it anymore. Also- what has been your rate of gain doing this? From your profile pic you look like you have quite a bit more LMB than I do, so I can't imagine I could eat as much as you do without gaining too much fat. But now I'm wondering if failing to take my lifting expenditure into account is hurting me...

sarahstrezo

Yep...at least that's what I've read is best and what I am doing. Bumping up 100 cals/week until you see steady weight gain.

SonyaCele

<<<Hi Sonya. Thanks for this. Couple of questions: when you were maintaining on 1600-1700 were you lifting then? And how did you come up with 250-300 extra cals from lifting? I honestly don't even take lifting into account in my TDEE because when I log it FitBit (or MFP) gives me like 5 additional calories burned, or sometimes even takes some away! I think that's because I tend to walk around between sets which makes the FitBit think I'm doing something aerobic. So I don't even log it anymore. Also- what has been your rate of gain doing this? From your profile pic you look like you have quite a bit more LMB than I do, so I can't imagine I could eat as much as you do without gaining too much fat. But now I'm wondering if failing to take my lifting expenditure into account is hurting me...>>>

I wasn't lifting heavy, but i was strength training circuit type stuff 5 days a week, and i was doing about 30 min of cardio 5 days a week. i think my maint level was low due to some metablolic slow down which is part of why i wanted to jump things up a bit and eat more and just make some changes.

i've found with lifting, the actual act of lifting doesnt burn that much calories, so i dont even log it as an exercise. My hour long strength circuits would show about 250 cal an hour, and thats not much more than i'd burn if i was just walking around. Lifting is definately not a heavy calorie burner. I'm trying to figure out if the recovery is burning calories while our body exerts effort to repair, i would imagine it is burning a bunch extra all day .
I havent' been lifting heavy long enough to know how much i'm gaining, i've only been doing this about 3 or 4 months. I am taking creatine so i gained a bunch from that, and my scale numbers are just all over the place. When i go off the creatine, i'll know more, i'm also going to get dunk tanked again in a few months to compare it to my before bf%.
I calculated my workout snack of 250-300 calories because thats what a reasonable size snack adds up to. Some carbs, protein, fruit etc. if i make it much less than 250 cal, there is nothign there and i'm hungry.
I've been doing this about 3 months, i dont think i've added much fat, but i'm not sure, i hope i dont gain too much fat!!! but i know i'll get some just in the process and i really wanna put on muscle. The fat will be easy to lose with a few months of dieting. I think my LBM is about 112 these days. my bf was 28% when i started

TriLifter

i've found with lifting, the actual act of lifting doesnt burn that much calories, so i dont even log it as an exercise. My hour long strength circuits would show about 250 cal an hour, and thats not much more than i'd burn if i was just walking around. Lifting is definately not a heavy calorie burner. I'm trying to figure out if the recovery is burning calories while our body exerts effort to repair, i would imagine it is burning a bunch extra all day .

I actually do add my lifting calories into my fitbit for that exact reason--I may not burn 250 calories in the 45 min. I'm lifting, but I figure will account for the additional afterburn calories that fitbit doesn't register! Either that, or I'll gain faster than I want and have to readjust my strategy.

maruby95

Do you mean you manually add 250 calories for 45 minutes of lifting? Just clarifying...

TriLifter

Do you mean you manually add 250 calories for 45 minutes of lifting? Just clarifying...

I sure do! I figure it all evens out in the end.

whitebalance

Do you mean you manually add 250 calories for 45 minutes of lifting? Just clarifying...

I sure do! I figure it all evens out in the end.

This is what I do too. It seemed to work very well for me in maintenance, but I think it's too early for me to tell anyone anything with any kind of authority about how it's working when I'm eating slightly over instead of slightly under. I find myself lapsing into scale voodoo every morning. This is so scary for me right now, I think I'm gonna have to log my fingernails as a snack.

TriLifter

Do you mean you manually add 250 calories for 45 minutes of lifting? Just clarifying...

I sure do! I figure it all evens out in the end.

This is what I do too. It seemed to work very well for me in maintenance, but I think it's too early for me to tell anyone anything with any kind of authority about how it's working when I'm eating slightly over instead of slightly under. I find myself lapsing into scale voodoo every morning. This is so scary for me right now, I think I'm gonna have to log my fingernails as a snack.

I think fingernails are negative calories

maruby95

^^

I totally hear you on the scale obsession. I'm so terrified of over-doing it, I am keeping daily track, which tempts me to make constant changes. So I'm trying not to make any changes or decisions until at least my officially weekly weigh-in. Even that is probably too frequent.

Before I started this bulk, I had read lots of women say how great it was on a bulk- they felt all this freedom to eat whatever they wanted etc. I was kind of looking forward to that sense of 'bring on all the foods." Apparently I'm going to obsess my way through this bulk and ruin all the good eating . Grrr....

a_vettestingray

Its getting easier now, for me at least. Once the weight fluctuations settled (took a couple of weeks), I am able to relax about it some. My three week average was right on track and it looks like I will be right where I want to be on the 30th (next weigh day). My weight is starting to be predictable - like higher than expected gain on days after high sodium intake, but when I can keep my sodium under control, the water weight isn't too crazy and I see a .1 - .2lb gain per day (average).

I feel like I am on cruise control now. When the gains start slowing down or stop, I will just increase another 100 calories per day. Easy peasy.

sarahstrezo

Its getting easier now, for me at least. Once the weight fluctuations settled (took a couple of weeks), I am able to relax about it some. My three week average was right on track and it looks like I will be right where I want to be on the 30th (next weigh day). My weight is starting to be predictable - like higher than expected gain on days after high sodium intake, but when I can keep my sodium under control, the water weight isn't too crazy and I see a .1 - .2lb gain per day (average).

I feel like I am on cruise control now. When the gains start slowing down or stop, I will just increase another 100 calories per day. Easy peasy.

I'm hoping to see that come Monday (my next weigh in day).

TriLifter

Weighed in today... up a whole pound... that's four pounds in two weeks... way more than goal. Ugh.

whitebalance

Do you use any kind of trend analysis on your weigh-in data? My daily weights are all over the map, but my weight on Trendweight amazingly shows a gain this week of about a quarter pound - exactly what I set out to gain per week. We'll see if that holds. I'm still giving myself regular dental manicures. But the point is, fluctuations can hide what's going on with changes as small as we're trying to make.

Barbellgirl

Do you use any kind of trend analysis on your weigh-in data? My daily weights are all over the map, but my weight on Trendweight amazingly shows a gain this week of about a quarter pound - exactly what I set out to gain per week. We'll see if that holds. I'm still giving myself regular dental manicures. But the point is, fluctuations can hide what's going on with changes as small as we're trying to make.

I just weigh and use my handheld Omron body fat at the same time every day and write it on my calendar. I'm trying just to watch the weekly and monthly trend instead of daily since that can vary so much. I don't consider it a real weight gain until I've held the weight 3-4 days. Otherwise I would freak out too much. :laugh: