Is the Snatch a waste of time?
dirtybadgermtb
Posts: 140 Member
CrossFit has always been big on the Oly lifts and, I cannot say that I dislike them but, as a coach, looking at the amount of time that it takes to teach decent snatch technique and, for many, they will never really get it, I have to say that I think that for the CrossFit masses, it is a waste of time. There are so many other exercises that will serve the same function with a lot less time spent on technique. I think of the snatch as a boutique lift. It looks damn cool and also feels cool but, considering that we only have maybe 4-6 hours/week with our clients, there are much better means of building fitness, strength, explosive hip function, and overhead position than the snatch. Now, if your gym has advanced level sessions on the schedule, I think it is totally appropriate. I don't feel the same way about the clean and jerk. In my experience, people actually catch on the C & J with relative ease in comparison to the snatch.
0
Replies
-
If you improve your snatch technique then you will also improve your clean technique because so many people miss the high pull. Also it will improve your front squat, over head squat... I personally do not think it is a waste of time. I am not a trainer though. One thing my box is doing is we snatch just about every day. We have a snatch warm up which takes a couple of minutes where we do 5 of each movement with the PVC: Jump Shrug / High Pull / Muscle Snatch / Landing Position / Overhead Squat / Sot Press / Duck Walk - 5 steps forward, 5 steps back. For the last 3 movements we stay down after the last one. It has REALLY helped with my hip flexibility as well. then 5 full hang snatch. We do that about every day unless we have a snatch in the workout or it is a longer WOD like Murph. We have had a lot of PRs on snatch and a ton of people improve technique.
I also think that people should be working on their snatch during open gym. Suggest Coach's Eye to walk them through it. You will have some people who just want to get through the lift and you will have others who want to improve their technique. I would focus on the ones who want to improve. When the others are ready, they will let you know.0 -
great insight Christy!0
-
I don’t think it’s a complete waste of time but I agree it’s highly unlikely you are going to the master the movement in your average crossfit class just due to lack of time. I will say I didn’t start to really improve until I started going to Oly class at least twice a week on top of the 5 crossfit classes I go to. I’m very fortunate to have two really good Oly coaches whose background is Olympic weightlifting both competing and coaching. I’ve had to relearn my technique because when I first started crossfit my weights kept going up because I was getting stronger but at some point I had to fix my technique and work on my mobility to feel comfortable dropping under the bar because you can only pull a heavy bar so high
I think with the snatch mobility is a limiting factor a lot of the time, especially hips and shoulders. I know for myself I sit at a desk 9 hours a day so unless I make a conscious effort to spend 15 min on mobility outside of the mobility we already do in class my lifts really suffer.0 -
My technique on the snatch sucks. I know it, my coaches know it, and it frustrates the hell out of me. That being said, I feel like it is a valuable use of my time expressly because I am terrible at it. I want to get better at it, more than anything else in CrossFit actually, and my desire to finally "get it" is something that motivates me.0
-
The question that I ask is, do you want to get fit or do you want to get good at CrossFit? I think that a lot of people get caught up on getting good at CrossFit and loose sight of what their original goals are in the first place. There are a lot of good comments on this thread. And I am open to arguments on both sides and everyone's comments have merit.
Personally, I think that most athletes would get more out of overhead squats for overhead position and core stability, cleans for explosive hip, kettlebell swings and kb snatches (much easier than barbell snatch) for hip power and shoulder strength. Perhaps my opinion is skewed as the snatch has always been one of my GOATS though.0 -
My technique on the snatch sucks. I know it, my coaches know it, and it frustrates the hell out of me. That being said, I feel like it is a valuable use of my time expressly because I am terrible at it. I want to get better at it, more than anything else in CrossFit actually, and my desire to finally "get it" is something that motivates me.
Mine is very spotty and deteriorates quickly with added weight. But what I've figured out through trial and error is the way a snatch "feels" when I do it in good form....almost effortlessly the weight is above my head.
So I try to get to the weight where that happens and then do a couple of sets there being VERY conscious of technique, having a coach watch me...
I enjoy doing the O-lifts because I've never done them before and I always enjoy learning new things and improving them.0 -
The snatch is simultaneously a favorite of mine and the bane of my existence. I too feel that it is a technique that coincides with power cleans as they employ the same basic movement bringing the bar from the ground to the knees, to the hips and beyond. Both require a lot of skill work to get them right, but that in itself is a very good lesson to learn in Crossfit - the discipline to do difficult things correctly. I think snatches are more a mental battle than a physical battle and that this is a valuable something to be applied to getting more fit in addition to getting better at Crossfit.
Also, if you are not flexible enough to catch a snatch, you are most likely not flexible enough to perform OHS correctly. I find that some of the days when my core gets worked the most are when OHS are in the workout.
I think the complexity of the movement and correct form should ALWAYS be stressed no matter the time limitations. It really is something that is not a waste of time (in my opinion)0 -
...is a very good lesson to learn in Crossfit - the discipline to do difficult things correctly. I think snatches are more a mental battle than a physical battle and that this is a valuable something to be applied to getting more fit in addition to getting better at Crossfit.
Well said.0 -
.0
-
The snatch is simultaneously a favorite of mine and the bane of my existence. I too feel that it is a technique that coincides with power cleans as they employ the same basic movement bringing the bar from the ground to the knees, to the hips and beyond. Both require a lot of skill work to get them right, but that in itself is a very good lesson to learn in Crossfit - the discipline to do difficult things correctly. I think snatches are more a mental battle than a physical battle and that this is a valuable something to be applied to getting more fit in addition to getting better at Crossfit.
Also, if you are not flexible enough to catch a snatch, you are most likely not flexible enough to perform OHS correctly. I find that some of the days when my core gets worked the most are when OHS are in the workout.
I think the complexity of the movement and correct form should ALWAYS be stressed no matter the time limitations. It really is something that is not a waste of time (in my opinion)
Well said. I'm actually planning to work more on my power snatch just to get the depth of movement, hip flexibility and balance issues out of the way.0 -
My biggest problem is dropping into the squat. My clean and jerk involves no squat. My snatch is the same. I have a problem dropping under.0
-
I missed a 115# snatch in a competition this weekend. Stupid snatch!0
-
I agree with cmay in that my OHS is terrible bc of lack of flexability in my shoulder and not keeping my chest up high enough. So there's just no way I can catch a snatch in full squat any time soon.
That said, I'm working hard towards getting better at all aspects of crossfit. I think the movements were recommended by people much smarter than I am when it comes to fitness0 -
My biggest problem is dropping into the squat. My clean and jerk involves no squat. My snatch is the same. I have a problem dropping under.
I also have this problem. It's some kind of mental disconnect about getting under the bar. I tend to think about it more in terms of bringing the bar up high enough to get under it.
This snatch warm-up is helping me to get better, though, I think. With a PVC, do five each of: jump shrug, high pull, muscle snatch, landing position drill, overhead squat, Sotts press, duck walk forward, duck walk backward, drop out of the hole and stand up.0 -
0
-
In response to the snatch not being functional...
"functional" is making your body do what you tell it to. on demand. every time.
the glenohumoral joint has the largest range of motion of any joint. it goes in a million different directions...for a reason. because we may need it in various positions at some point in our life. if your shoulders (or hips or neck or wrist....) cannot move to optimal end range then you are broken. you need to fix it. your body is like an obedient dog. it will eventually do what you tell it to.0 -
I've not done one yet. Really want to though!0
-
Not quite "waste of time", but ,"use sparingly, there are more efficient movements to be uberfit".
The median and modal form is terrible on xfit vids at competitions, etc, and as such I would reserve snatches for more advanced participants. Instead, I'd still focus on the big four (squat, dead, clean, SOHP). Have recommended benchmarks for each athlete: when you're able to do X OHS with proper form; Y cleans from all positions (hang, power, squat, etc) with proper form; have Z% of BW dead, you've got the foundation, let's work on the snatch. Similar to leg/ankle/achilles locks in BJJ - they're really cool, but you wait til you have more fundamental movements first.
(you get your free down before hitting fly for beginning swimmers.)
"Snatchfit" may look cool (as TS noted, it's "boutique"), but where the real work gets done is with the less glamorous lifts, if you want to call them that.
but then again, I'm not a fan of xfit KB swings, preferring Russian swings. Hell, not a fan of kipping either. I'd rather see people be able to do the strict movement first before adding the complexity of the kip.0 -
So last night I was having trouble with a weight on my clean but after a comment from my coach I did a couple of deadlifts and remembered that being slow/controlled on the pull off the ground is way better than trying to rip the bar off the ground. With that in mind I was able to get the weight up and PR on my clean. I am going to keep this strategy in mind the next time I try the snatch and see if that helps.
Speaking of helping, I thought this video was helpful;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSdrnluM8NA 0 -
So I'm still working on consistently hitting just 75 pounds on my snatch...
One day.0 -
The question that I ask is, do you want to get fit or do you want to get good at CrossFit? I think that a lot of people get caught up on getting good at CrossFit and loose sight of what their original goals are in the first place. There are a lot of good comments on this thread. And I am open to arguments on both sides and everyone's comments have merit.
Personally, I think that most athletes would get more out of overhead squats for overhead position and core stability, cleans for explosive hip, kettlebell swings and kb snatches (much easier than barbell snatch) for hip power and shoulder strength. Perhaps my opinion is skewed as the snatch has always been one of my GOATS though.
The same could be said for HSPU, handstand walks, and muscle ups. A body weight strict press, ring dips and chest to bar pull-ups all can increase fitness without having to learn these skills. I think they're important as you achieve greater levels of fitness to be challenged to new skills to keep increasing your fitness and tackling the body and minding in different ways. With the snatch, the technique has crossovers into the other lifts and can very much challenge your fitness levels as you achieve higher weights. So will a snatch benefit the beginner as much as OH squats? Probably not because their body is achieving huge gains from the basics. But as the athlete progresses, I think their fitness makes gains as well.
Remember CrossFit defines fitness with 10 components: endurance, stamina, strength, flexibility, power, speed, coordination, agility, balance, and accuracy. The snatch hits more of these than oh squats just as the clean and jerk hit more than front squats and push presses. So it also matters if you're trying to achieve fitness as only a portion of these 10.
Just my 2 cents. I've been doing CrossFit since 2008 and coaching since 2011. However, i do not have formal exercise/kinesiology/physiology etc education. My education has been limited to playing sports and CrossFit seminars and whatever my husband throws at me (he's been a strength and Conditioning coach for 7 years).0 -
The question that I ask is, do you want to get fit or do you want to get good at CrossFit? I think that a lot of people get caught up on getting good at CrossFit and loose sight of what their original goals are in the first place. There are a lot of good comments on this thread. And I am open to arguments on both sides and everyone's comments have merit.
Personally, I think that most athletes would get more out of overhead squats for overhead position and core stability, cleans for explosive hip, kettlebell swings and kb snatches (much easier than barbell snatch) for hip power and shoulder strength. Perhaps my opinion is skewed as the snatch has always been one of my GOATS though.
The same could be said for HSPU, handstand walks, and muscle ups. A body weight strict press, ring dips and chest to bar pull-ups all can increase fitness without having to learn these skills. I think they're important as you achieve greater levels of fitness to be challenged to new skills to keep increasing your fitness and tackling the body and minding in different ways. With the snatch, the technique has crossovers into the other lifts and can very much challenge your fitness levels as you achieve higher weights. So will a snatch benefit the beginner as much as OH squats? Probably not because their body is achieving huge gains from the basics. But as the athlete progresses, I think their fitness makes gains as well.
Remember CrossFit defines fitness with 10 components: endurance, stamina, strength, flexibility, power, speed, coordination, agility, balance, and accuracy. The snatch hits more of these than oh squats just as the clean and jerk hit more than front squats and push presses. So it also matters if you're trying to achieve fitness as only a portion of these 10.
Just my 2 cents. I've been doing CrossFit since 2008 and coaching since 2011. However, i do not have formal exercise/kinesiology/physiology etc education. My education has been limited to playing sports and CrossFit seminars and whatever my husband throws at me (he's been a strength and Conditioning coach for 7 years).
This is good feedback. Thanks. I am not completely close minded to it. I have been doing them more as of late and got a PR and find them less frustrating. Perhaps I am coming around to seeing the benefits.0 -
My biggest problem is dropping into the squat. My clean and jerk involves no squat. My snatch is the same. I have a problem dropping under.
Watch the Olympic-level guys and gals do C&J. It most definitely involves squatting.
I'm finding dropping under snatches and cleans is more a fear factor with me. I'm going to reduce weight a bit and just repeat it over and over again until I know I'm dropping under in the right spot then start ramping up weight again slowly while I get used to it.0 -
My biggest problem is dropping into the squat. My clean and jerk involves no squat. My snatch is the same. I have a problem dropping under.
Watch the Olympic-level guys and gals do C&J. It most definitely involves squatting.
I'm finding dropping under snatches and cleans is more a fear factor with me. I'm going to reduce weight a bit and just repeat it over and over again until I know I'm dropping under in the right spot then start ramping up weight again slowly while I get used to it.
Exactly. There's a mental block there for me, same as there was initially with box jumps. I think the way you describe is the best way to get over it. In addition to doing a "snatch warmup" with PVC, before I do a prescribed workload of snatches, I'll do a few full squat snatches at light weight before moving on to the working portion of my barbell gymnastics.0
