Strength Training for Runners?

julie_emma1

I was wondering if anyone had any advice on the best strength training routine for runners? I'd like to add more weight lifting / strength training to my routine. My two main reasons for wanting to incorporate more weights is to build up some more lean body mass and to prevent running injuries.

My routine is currently about 4 days of running per week and 2-3 days of yoga, +/- 1 day of 5-8lb dumbbell weights along with Jillian Michaels on youtube . I think I could add a couple sessions of weights per week, either on rest days, easy run days or before a yoga session.

My ultimate fitness goal is to be able run longer and faster. I've seen others on MFP forums recommend the Starting Strength and New Rules of Weight Lifting for Women books...but I'm wondering if these types of programs would be the right fit for people wanting to improve their distance running?

Thoughts?

sjohnny

It depends on where you are in your running and where you are in your lifting and what your goals are for each. When I was still new at both I was making fast progress running three days a week and doing stronglifts which incorporates squats three times a week. When my running miles started increasing I had to drop back to doing squats once a week but was still making progress in both. Right now I'm focused on getting faster before a half marathon in 11 weeks so I've cut my lifting back to twice a week - one session with squats.

Lifting in the lower rep range will increase strength without too much increase in actual muscle mass. If your goals include being faster then being stronger is more important than being bigger. Compound movements with heavier weights will help you with this. A strong core is also important for running and will help with your posture as the miles get long.

It sounds like you're not doing a lot of lifting right now so you would likely make some pretty fast gains. Depending on what you're currently planning in your running I'd maybe take a look at Starting Strength. If the squatting gets to be too much and you can't recover well then you could reduce to squats only once a week instead of every workout.

It will take some trial and error to figure out what will work for you and tweaks will need to be made as you progress in both lifting and running.

julie_emma1

Thank you for your very comprehensive and helpful response! It sounds like Starting Strength might be a good place to start, and then do some trial and error as you suggested to find something that complements my running schedule well (i.e. not squats on the day before my long run ).
I was wondering about what you mentioned here (quoted below), as I understood that lifting lighter at higher reps was better for strengthening without large gains in mass (i.e bulking). I don't know a lot about weight-lifting, but that's just what I've heard. Is that wrong?

Lifting in the lower rep range will increase strength without too much increase in actual muscle mass. If your goals include being faster then being stronger is more important than being bigger. Compound movements with heavier weights will help you with this.

sjohnny

Lifting in the 1 to 6ish rep range will focus on strength
6is to 15ish will focus on hypertrophy
Over 15ish is for muscular endurance.

There is overlap in these ranges.

You're already building endurance with your actual running. Starting Strength has you lifting 3 sets of 5 which is a great place to start for building strength. And yeah, squats the day before a long run is probably not a great idea

I did 9 sets of clean & jerks Friday and ran 14 miles Saturday - that was a bad idea and I won't be repeating that. And it's one of those things I should have know but.....

GiddyupTim

I just have to reiterate what sjohnny has just said.
Many running coaches now recommend some cross-training, particularly weight lifting. Strength helps. Gym time is training without the same, repetitive stresses of running.
The simple lifting routines that use mostly compound lifts are pretty fun and effective. You'll build strength, and, supposedly, you can build strength with this kind of lifting without packing on huge amounts of muscle weight.
The only thing is: there is a catch, or a trade-off, really.
On the days you lift heavy like that, you probably are not running. You're not running well, anyway. The programs like starting strength call for lifting three days a week. That means, if you follow that prescription, and take two days of rest per week, you only have two days a week for running. That is probably not enough to be good at running; it is certainly not enough to get better at running.
It is even worse if you take into account the fact that you are beat the day after heavy lifting so you run even less well.
I now lift -- compound lifts: squats, deads, power cleans, bench, overhead press, rows, pull-ups -- once a week, maybe twice. I figure that is about all I can do without impacting my running. But, I also did spent a fair amount of time lifting more often than that -- so I learned the lifts and my strength is already okay.
Good luck!

julie_emma1

Thanks Tufel for your input on this. I agree that 3 days per week is too much to allow time for running training. and think I'd prefer 1-2 days per week. Do you personally follow a specified program for your lifting or do you just sort of choose what exercises you feel like doing that day?

mjpTennis

I am currently training for a half and full marathon using a 30 week training schedule and am also adding in some weight training, not maxing out on the weights but not skimping either. I have settled on something very similar to what has been touched upon here...it may be a bit aggressive but I will let time and my body tell me as I go through it. I am only lifting each core muscle once a week and trying to find the right day for the leg work out...I may have to switch it to Mondays...but we will see. Here is my Running and lifting schedule.

Monday slow, short run (3 - 4 miles) - chest/triceps/shoulders
Tuesday - short slow run (3-5 miles)
Wednesday - slow, linger run (5-8 miles) - legs including calves/abs
Thursday - Speed day - tempo run or intervals or hills
Friday - rest from running - Biceps/back
Saturday - mid distance run 4-9 miles some at pace
Sunday - long runs (8 - 20 miles)

I am working with a graduate student fitness instructor for the weight exercises. He wanted to focus on rotating through the muscles, especially with the running. As I progress I may also pull out Monday's run and add in the legs there instead of Wednesday.

mjpTennis

...and Tufel is a great resource and lucky to play tennis on most days!

timeasterday

I am currently training for a half and full marathon using a 30 week training schedule and am also adding in some weight training, not maxing out on the weights but not skimping either. I have settled on something very similar to what has been touched upon here...it may be a bit aggressive but I will let time and my body tell me as I go through it. I am only lifting each core muscle once a week and trying to find the right day for the leg work out...I may have to switch it to Mondays...but we will see. Here is my Running and lifting schedule.

Monday slow, short run (3 - 4 miles) - chest/triceps/shoulders
Tuesday - short slow run (3-5 miles)
Wednesday - slow, linger run (5-8 miles) - legs including calves/abs
Thursday - Speed day - tempo run or intervals or hills
Friday - rest from running - Biceps/back
Saturday - mid distance run 4-9 miles some at pace
Sunday - long runs (8 - 20 miles)

Yeah, speed day after leg day probably won't work out that well. I do legs on Monday and the next day I am pretty useless for running anything other than an easy pace. Here's how I split things up right now:

Monday - Legs & Back
Tuesday - Shoulders & Triceps, short easy run
Wednesday - Speedwork at the track
Thursday - Chest & Biceps
Friday - Tempo run or hill repeats
Saturday - Rest (eventually will become another easy run day)
Sunday - Long run

Also, three times a week I do planks, abs, and several hip exercises.

hskriver

I am currently following the New Rules of Lifting for Women program and I absolutely love it. Currently, I only lift twice a week, but was doing it 3 times a week when I was in the early stages of the program. I had to cut down to 2 times a week because the weight workouts increase in duration as you move through the program and it was too hard to work in a 3rd session with my runs. This program focuses on compound lifts and using all muscle groups in the same workout.

My schedule looks like:
Sat - Long Run
Sun - Lift (sometimes I will also run 1 mile to the gym and then back, but the mile home is pretty slow)
Mon - 3 mile easy run
Tues - 4 to 6 miles intervals
Wed - 3 mile easy run at lunch, then lift after work
Thurs - 3-6 mile run with strides or a tempo run
Fri - rest day

DymonNdaRgh40

You got some great information from sjohnny and tufel.

I currently follow the strong lifts program. I'm training for a half marathon as well so I've modified the routine a bit. I usually run three days a week guaranteed and then do strong lifts the other three days. However, depending on how I feel and when trying to get my long runs in I'll run four days and lift the other two so that I can get a full rest day. I love training so I don't always get a full day rest but I try to

My current routine:
M - 3.5 mile run, some leg weights, stairmaster
T - Strong Lifts (my way)
W - 4.5 mile run, some leg weights, stairmaster
Th - Strong Lifts (my way)
F- 6.5 mile run and leg weights
S - Long run (8-11 miles ) or Strong Lifts
Sun - Rest (sometime another Strong lifts)

julie_emma1

Thanks for the responses everyone! :-)

fleetzz

bump

dutchk

Here's a slide presentation from the Furman Institute of Running and Scientific Training (FIRST). Good bullet points, IMO.

www2.furman.edu/sites/first/Documents/16_oct2324.pdf‎

lporter229

Great topic. I often wonder about this myself. When I was training for my marathon last spring, I alternated running with two days/ week of P90X upper body workouts (did not do lower body to give the legs a break). I think I got pretty good results, but still feel like I lost some lean body mass. I am planning on starting training for another marathon after the first of the year. In the meantime, I started the NROLFW plan. I am hoping to build more LBM in case I lose some again during training. My current schedule looks something like this:

M: 60-90 minutes power yoga
T: 30 min run + NROLFW
W: 5-6 mile run
Th: 30 min run + NROLFW
F: 30 min walk + 20-30 min yoga
Sat: 6-10 mile run
Sun: NROLFW only

I plan to continue with this until I start my marathon training, then go back to two days of P90X upper body. Any advice on this plan is appreciated!

QuietBloom

I just have to reiterate what sjohnny has just said.
Many running coaches now recommend some cross-training, particularly weight lifting. Strength helps. Gym time is training without the same, repetitive stresses of running.
The simple lifting routines that use mostly compound lifts are pretty fun and effective. You'll build strength, and, supposedly, you can build strength with this kind of lifting without packing on huge amounts of muscle weight.
The only thing is: there is a catch, or a trade-off, really.
On the days you lift heavy like that, you probably are not running. You're not running well, anyway. The programs like starting strength call for lifting three days a week. That means, if you follow that prescription, and take two days of rest per week, you only have two days a week for running. That is probably not enough to be good at running; it is certainly not enough to get better at running.
It is even worse if you take into account the fact that you are beat the day after heavy lifting so you run even less well.
I now lift -- compound lifts: squats, deads, power cleans, bench, overhead press, rows, pull-ups -- once a week, maybe twice. I figure that is about all I can do without impacting my running. But, I also did spent a fair amount of time lifting more often than that -- so I learned the lifts and my strength is already okay.
Good luck!

I always run before I do any leg work. I find that my legs are nice and warm, and I don't seem to have any trouble getting through the strength rutine. I don't do anything too radical though - it's a kettlebell leg workout using 12 lbs. Lots of single leg lunges, etc.

julie_emma1

Great topic. I often wonder about this myself. When I was training for my marathon last spring, I alternated running with two days/ week of P90X upper body workouts (did not do lower body to give the legs a break). I think I got pretty good results, but still feel like I lost some lean body mass. I am planning on starting training for another marathon after the first of the year. In the meantime, I started the NROLFW plan. I am hoping to build more LBM in case I lose some again during training. My current schedule looks something like this:

M: 60-90 minutes power yoga
T: 30 min run + NROLFW
W: 5-6 mile run
Th: 30 min run + NROLFW
F: 30 min walk + 20-30 min yoga
Sat: 6-10 mile run
Sun: NROLFW only

I plan to continue with this until I start my marathon training, then go back to two days of P90X upper body. Any advice on this plan is appreciated!

This sounds a lot like my weekly plan so far, only instead of a third nrolfw only day, I just do 2 lifting days per week and have 1 day of complete rest. Do you not find you need a recovery day (or is that your friday?)?

lporter229

Yes, Friday is my rest day. I always try to do at least a little light yoga, but sometimes it is nothing at all. This is the schedule I shoot for. It doesn't always work out as planned either.

sarahz5

I am wresting with this right now. I've been running seriously for around 18 months. I have been doing Stronglifts off and on for about a year now - I did NROLFW for about six months before that. So I have been lifting and running together, but I have only now started to recognize what an immediate negative impact the lifting has on my running. Overall, I think it has a fantastic impact - but in the short term, it definitely slows me down. If I run before I lift, I often can't hit the same weight I did during a recent session without a running warm-up. Then this weekend I lifted on Friday and ran a 5k Saturday, much slower than I would have expected, and it just felt hard. On the other hand, I took a 6 week break from lifting this fall and my speed improvements were fantastic.

I have decided I am going to focus on compound lifting progressive loads three times a week in Dec-Jan and July-Aug. Other than that, I am going to make sure I get to the gym once a week, not worry about progressing, and de-emphasize lower body. I always find it impossible to fit in lifting with running, biking, and swimming anyway, so I will just give each its season.

rybo

It depends on where you are in your running and where you are in your lifting and what your goals are for each. When I was still new at both I was making fast progress running three days a week and doing stronglifts which incorporates squats three times a week. When my running miles started increasing I had to drop back to doing squats once a week but was still making progress in both. Right now I'm focused on getting faster before a half marathon in 11 weeks so I've cut my lifting back to twice a week - one session with squats.

Lifting in the lower rep range will increase strength without too much increase in actual muscle mass. If your goals include being faster then being stronger is more important than being bigger. Compound movements with heavier weights will help you with this. A strong core is also important for running and will help with your posture as the miles get long.

It sounds like you're not doing a lot of lifting right now so you would likely make some pretty fast gains. Depending on what you're currently planning in your running I'd maybe take a look at Starting Strength. If the squatting gets to be too much and you can't recover well then you could reduce to squats only once a week instead of every workout.

It will take some trial and error to figure out what will work for you and tweaks will need to be made as you progress in both lifting and running.

Great advice and about all I can add from my own personal experience is that timing & scheduling can make a huge difference. It's a balancing act for sure. You dont want a hard run or a hard leg day close to each other. I also think a lot comes down to you running training philosphy. If you are marathon training where many of your runs are easy and not much speed work, it's going to be easier to fit in your lifting. one thing that has helped me is being able to lift before work and run after. That way even if I do some leg work, I'm able to run, unless its a hard run day. Which it usually isn't.

julie_emma1

Great advice and about all I can add from my own personal experience is that timing & scheduling can make a huge difference. It's a balancing act for sure. You dont want a hard run or a hard leg day close to each other. I also think a lot comes down to you running training philosphy. If you are marathon training where many of your runs are easy and not much speed work, it's going to be easier to fit in your lifting. one thing that has helped me is being able to lift before work and run after. That way even if I do some leg work, I'm able to run, unless its a hard run day. Which it usually isn't.

Great, thanks for the feedback. Doing one of the workouts before and the other after work (or classes in my case) is a good idea. I'd be more inclined to do a morning run and lifting after class though. Is there a reason you do lifts before?

buchy2009

I like incorporating the strength training DVDs from P90x into my running program. They are mostly body weight exercises, like pull-ups, push-ups, lunges, body weight squats, etc., so I've found them to work well. I always do them after my run for the day and will do 1/2 of the DVD if I'm feeling too burnt out. I typical week with these looks like:

Mon - chest/back dvd
Tues - 5 miles
Wednesdays - medium long run and then shoulders and arms dvd
Thursdays - 5 miles and then legs and back dvd
Friday - Rest
Saturday - Long Run
Sunday - Recovery Run

I've found the key for me is to do leg lifting right before a rest day so that it doesn't affect my running.

rybo

Great, thanks for the feedback. Doing one of the workouts before and the other after work (or classes in my case) is a good idea. I'd be more inclined to do a morning run and lifting after class though. Is there a reason you do lifts before?

Its just more convenient to workout at home before work, and then stop at the park on my way home to run.

sjohnny

Great, thanks for the feedback. Doing one of the workouts before and the other after work (or classes in my case) is a good idea. I'd be more inclined to do a morning run and lifting after class though. Is there a reason you do lifts before?

Its just more convenient to workout at home before work, and then stop at the park on my way home to run.

And for me it's the opposite. It's usually better for me to run early in the morning and lift in the afternoon when I get home if I'm going to do both on the same day. Totally a scheduling thing. As long as there is some time between workouts it shouldn't make a huge performance difference. If you're going to do them back to back you'll have to decide which you want to do first based on your goals and what effects doing one first has on the one you do after.

lporter229

I also usually split up my running and lifting on days that I do both. Usually I run in the morning and lift after work, but mostly it comes down to which is most convenient for me that day.

emAZn

I'm hoping to incorporate long distance running with strength training as well and my schedule is hopefully going to look like this:

Monday - 6 miles and lift - upper body
Tuesday - 20-60 cross train and lift - lower body
Wednesday - 8 miles
Thursday - 20-60 cross train and lift - upper body
Friday - Long run (8-10-10-12 Miles)
Saturday - Rest/walk the dog
Sunday - 20-60 cross train and lift - lower body

I'll adjust if needed but hopefully the cross training will be enough to keep me maintaining my mileage with out always having to be running.

sjohnny

Well, here's what I'm doing right now:
Monday - Lift (I'm still playing with routines but this is usually a heavier day)
Tuesday - 50 to 50 minute run
Wednesday - intervals or tempo run (alternates each week)
Thursday - 4 mile run and lifting (lighter lifting day)
Friday - Off
Saturday - Long run - 10 to 16 miles depending on the week
Sunday - 3 to 5 mile run

So far this is working pretty well. I'll change it all up after my half in the middle of February. And will be lifting at least three days per week. Getting ready for the half is my focus right now so lifting isn't as much of a priority.

mlogantra76

I really really prefer to run:) But, I think for me, strength training/cross training is important. 3 years ago, all I did was run and my knees began to bother me. First it was one knee(burning constantly) and then the other one because I was trying to compensate for the other. They bothered me even while walking. I remember going to the dentist and him telling me to keep my legs still(they were hurting). I never went to the dr. I just assumed my knees were saying no more running.

Fast forward to last January. I started exercising again(and relosing 30 lbs) and did Zumba, Kickboxing, Strength Training, and Spinning. In June, I cautiously started running loosely following the C25k program. I found my knees could handle it!

Now, I do 1 or 2 Kettle bell classes a week. This includes a lot of squats, lunges, core work, etc... I think its helping me run pain free so I plan to keep it up despite how much I'd rather just run.

Mon-Kettle Bells
Tues- 5.4 mile run
Wed-Am 3-4 mile run, Kettle Bells
Thur-Sometimes a 5 mile run(depends on where I am in my training)
Fri-Rest
Sat and Sun-A long run on one day(8-11 miles) and 5.4 mile on the other.

dixiech1ck

Bump for later

amandalj

Way late, but bumping this as a reference for when I redo my strength/running schedule!

Thanks for the great answers!

saskie78

I tend to really focus on strength training (especially legs, glutes, hips) in the months before I really start training for a race. In those months, I do a lot of weighted squats, lunges, deadlifts, plyometrics, etc. Then, when I'm in full on training mode (heavy miles or fast paces) I lay off the leg work a bit until the race is over. I keep up core and other basic injury prevention stuff during, but only do light leg/glute work. Then, when the goal race is over, back at it! Also helps, since time tends to get tight when miles on the schedule start to build up.