Bulking, but not getting stronger...

widmer3

Is this due to not eating enough, not sleeping enough, or not pushing myself enough?
I've been heavy lifting 3-4x a week for 15 months now. Following Leangains protocol. Eating over TDEE, but only by 10% in order to minimize fat gains.
Been on a bulk for 5 weeks. I've gained 1.25 lbs, and seen no strength gains. I'm frustrated. Please help! I wanna be a badass like you girls. =]

SonyaCele

i dont know how qualified i am to answer any of this, I can't tell if you have been lifting/bulking for 15 months of 5 weeks?
if 5 weeks, thats not long enough to notice anything. Do you log the details of your workouts and lifts? Are you trying to bulk or gain strength? they are two different things and train differently and have different results.

I would have to say the biggest reason i see people not gain in strength in the gym is not pushing themselves, this is assuming they are doing everythign else right (eating healthy, solid program, etc) Get a spotter, proper form and rep range for what you want, and make it hurt.

i log every rep, every weight, i time my rests, I'm able to see even the smallest gains when i go over my logs. I set goals for myself each workout such as adding 5 pounds to a set, or getting through more sets at a certain weight. For me, gaining strength is more of a mental thing than a physical thing. I have had to dig deep in my soul and i have to tell myself you can do this, just keep pushing, just keep pulling, dont stop, keep going. Thats where a good spotter/coach can help.

HMVOL7409

i dont know how qualified i am to answer any of this, I can't tell if you have been lifting/bulking for 15 months of 5 weeks?
if 5 weeks, thats not long enough to notice anything. Do you log the details of your workouts and lifts? Are you trying to bulk or gain strength? they are two different things and train differently and have different results.

I would have to say the biggest reason i see people not gain in strength in the gym is not pushing themselves, this is assuming they are doing everythign else right (eating healthy, solid program, etc) Get a spotter, proper form and rep range for what you want, and make it hurt.

i log every rep, every weight, i time my rests, I'm able to see even the smallest gains when i go over my logs. I set goals for myself each workout such as adding 5 pounds to a set, or getting through more sets at a certain weight. For me, gaining strength is more of a mental thing than a physical thing. I have had to dig deep in my soul and i have to tell myself you can do this, just keep pushing, just keep pulling, dont stop, keep going. Thats where a good spotter/coach can help.

Great advice.

Also 5 wks is simply not enough time. Plus bulking and muscle gain does not equate to strength gains. It's hard to answer without knowing what program your following and if you are following a program that has progressive overload in it. Pushing yourself is vital in getting to the next phase. I have had to set aside many negative thoughts in order to progress and get over some things and by doing so my strength has reached levels I only dreamed of a yr ago. Week in and week out my goal is to beat myself from the week before and if I don't I keep pushing.

westcoastgrl21

I'm going to echo what everyone else has said: 5 weeks is not that much time when you're talking about a bulk.
My thoughts on strength gains (which is separate from bulking/ adding mass) is that 1) check your form 2) push yourself 3) make sure you're on a progressive program 4) log your workout details so you can really see if you're making progress or not. Often progress is getting 6 reps instead of 5 at a certain weight. You're not going to remember from week to week exactly how many reps you got. Good luck!

caseythirteen

Excellent advice already given! I agree with all of it.

I'm a big fan of writing everything down. I have way too many things going on to remember from week to week what I've done. I write down my workout for the day which is typicall one step better than the one before. So if I got 8 reps last time, it's set to 9 this time. Or if I hit 12 reps, then this time it's a higher weight for 8. But it's always written down! I have a paper I bring with me, have a spreadsheet at home and then also record it in MFP. The spreadsheet has been great to look back and see how far I've come even if a given workout felt like **** (like yesterday). But you also have to make sure you are doing it. Sometimes that might mean backing off so you start at a place you are comfortable with and then progress from there. But like was already said ... you have to push yourself. That's not always easy to do but that's why I think a plan helps.

Does your plan oh are progressive loadin built in? Or is it something you are doing on your own?

EtA: God forbid we use a "curse word" on a forum that is supposed to be for grown ups!

TriLifter

I write down my workout for the day which is typicall one step better than the one before. So if I got 8 reps last time, it's set to 9 this time. Or if I hit 12 reps, then this time it's a higher weight for 8. But it's always written down! I have a paper I bring with me, have a spreadsheet at home and then also record it in MFP.

I agree with everything these amazing ladies have said, and escpecially this.

You might be lifting the same weight, but if you've gotten to the high end of the rep range, increase the weight even if you can only lift it a few times. You'll build that strength up!

widmer3

I try to write everything down, but I guess I'm not being crazy diligent about it and that could be the problem. To clarify, I've been lifting for 15 months but have only been on this current bulk for 5 weeks. I'll start tracking more carefully and see where things go from there!

JoRocka

Gurl. I feel your pain.

I would echo what other's have said- 5 weeks isn't enough.

I'm struggling with much the same thing- except I've been lifting for years. It happens. Part of being a grown up about this is really putting your nose down and grinding- doing the work. The results do not come from a few sessions- but from months of dedicated determined work.

I've been on my bulk for 1.5 months and haven't gotten anywhere gains wise on my deadlift (which was the point) squat is coming up- but not deads.

it's frustrating- but it's the REASON why this takes months- and it's the reason why anyone who is actually trying to bulk- is amused tremendously by people who say they just bulk from working out 2x a week. It's laughable.

SonyaCele

also, please be careful dont push yourself out of proper form. Form dictates weight, if you break form drop the weight back down, just for safety purposes.
You can also do something liek bench mark testing. Get a weight you are comfortable with and rep it to max until you can't lift it one more time. Write that number down. And in 6 weeks, rep that same weight again and see if you can rep it more times, i'm sure you will be able to. Thats a strength gain. I do this testing usually about every 6 weeks just for fun.
another test is to get your 1 rep max for a lift, and then you can compare it some time later. But getting a 1rm isn't just about going to the gym one afternoon, You might wanna get a skilled coach to help you those numbers.
Im' sure you are gaining strength but just dont know it. any lifting will make you stronger.

JoRocka

also, please be careful dont push yourself out of proper form. Form dictates weight, if you break form drop the weight back down, just for safety purposes.
You can also do something liek bench mark testing. Get a weight you are comfortable with and rep it to max until you can't lift it one more time. Write that number down. And in 6 weeks, rep that same weight again and see if you can rep it more times, i'm sure you will be able to. Thats a strength gain. I do this testing usually about every 6 weeks just for fun.
another test is to get your 1 rep max for a lift, and then you can compare it some time later. But getting a 1rm isn't just about going to the gym one afternoon, You might wanna get a skilled coach to help you those numbers.
Im' sure you are gaining strength but just dont know it. any lifting will make you stronger.

to a point- don't just abandon it because you get a little out of wack.

Women are often the first to drop a weight back down for form where men let form go first to push more weight. Sometimes you just gotta put a little english on it and go for it.

TriLifter

also, please be careful dont push yourself out of proper form. Form dictates weight, if you break form drop the weight back down, just for safety purposes.
You can also do something liek bench mark testing. Get a weight you are comfortable with and rep it to max until you can't lift it one more time. Write that number down. And in 6 weeks, rep that same weight again and see if you can rep it more times, i'm sure you will be able to. Thats a strength gain. I do this testing usually about every 6 weeks just for fun.
another test is to get your 1 rep max for a lift, and then you can compare it some time later. But getting a 1rm isn't just about going to the gym one afternoon, You might wanna get a skilled coach to help you those numbers.
Im' sure you are gaining strength but just dont know it. any lifting will make you stronger.

to a point- don't just abandon it because you get a little out of wack.

Women are often the first to drop a weight back down for form where men let form go first to push more weight. Sometimes you just gotta put a little english on it and go for it.

That's pretty much what they say in NROL4W--women are too focused on perfect form. Sometimes you gotta get a little ugly to get those last couple of reps out. (Not dangerous...just ugly)

SonyaCele

That's pretty much what they say in NROL4W--women are too focused on perfect form. Sometimes you gotta get a little ugly to get those last couple of reps out. (Not dangerous...just ugly)

Lol, you mean like making faces and grunting? oh plenty of that going on these days! and peeing , too lol sorry TMI.

I'll rarely break form , i'm scared to cuz i'm old and broken and have a bad back (and injury rehab sucks!), but i always have a spotter to help me past a hard part while keeping form. Also, if i do feel i'm losing form in a set, i make sure my that for my last set i drop weight and get in a perfect set. Something about making sure the last thing the muscle remembers is clean and solid. I heard that somewhere and kinda liked that idea. So if i'm doing 6 sets, i try and make set #3 my bust it out hard set. this is the 3rd set of heavy, after being completly warmed up and not too fatigued. and then i drop back down for my last 3 sets to make sure they are clean. So i might have maybe 1 or two reps per workout that are pushing the limits. And also i train a lot in the 50-60% of max range with explosive strength, and only try and hit my maxes once a week. And i might only PR once a month.

JoRocka

That's pretty much what they say in NROL4W--women are too focused on perfect form. Sometimes you gotta get a little ugly to get those last couple of reps out. (Not dangerous...just ugly)

Lol, you mean like making faces and grunting? oh plenty of that going on these days! and peeing , too lol sorry TMI.

No- not like ugly faces LOL- if you are working it's going to be ugly (Front squats hit the pee issue for me- god what an awful feeling)
. LOL_ we mean like - form isn't going to be perfect- knees might be shakey- bar path may not be straight- back might not be under the right tension.

It's called putting a little english on it-

Also, if i do feel i'm losing form in a set, i make sure my that for my last set i drop weight and get in a perfect set.

pretty much the exact opposite of this

sometimes you just gotta go for it- women are much more likely to do what you listed above- or short change a set- men will push the exact opposite way and go heavier NO MATTER what- when they should have used some discrection and dropped a set or weight.

SonyaCele

just for the sake of discussion....
i'm dead set againt breaking form. Thats my main focus is keeping form, to ensure a clean solid muscle contraction. Since im lifting to target a specific muscle or muscle group, breaking form will incorporate different muscles that i'm not trying to work, and that defeats the purpose of that lift. I'm not body building, but i know body builders focus on a particular muscle and stimulating just that muscle for growth. it doesnt' make sense to lift too heavy so that you need to bring other muscles into the lift. you need to isolate that muscle safely and work it. yes push it but push within limits

I'm actually power lifting, so im learning how to use my whole body for my lifts, except my accessory work thats isolated. for the big lifts, i'm carefully using my entire body to lift and if i break form i'm going gonna get hurt, there arent any other muscles i can safely recuit to help with the lift. Once my form breaks my spotter is right there to assist so i can keep my form, so i'm stimulating the right muscles the right way. On my max effort day, i generally push my sets hard and end up using my spotter a lot. I lift crooked sometimes and my spotter yells at me to straighten up. But never throw my back into it, and a huge focus of all my lifts is strong forced out knees, if they shake that means i'm not ready for that weight. I also dont wanna break form because , and this may sound funny, but i dont wanna train my centrain nervous system that its ok to fire up the wrong muscles for the lift, even one time. I want my CNS learning to always fire right, the way i want. i dont know if that would really happen , but i worry about weird things.

i think this is where the whole art of lifting and bulking comes in , its so specialized that there are so many different ways and schools of thoughts , and things that work different for different people. We train and train and train and then get up on a platform or stage and compare the results of methods to other peoples methods... and then we go back and train and train and train some more.

i really like learning all the different methods and i mess around and try new stuff out. its all just fun.

Do you guys do any cardio? i barely have time anymore. i notice more strength gains when i'm not doing cardio, but im' also getting some fat gains.

JoRocka

I have to be honest your post is pretty condtradictory to me and doesn't make sense.

1st you say you're goal is to not work muscles you don't intend to use... then you say you are a compound lifter- who wants to use whole body moves (recruiting lots of muscles) that's just kind of contradictory to me.

if you are here to bulk- you are trying to put on muscle... and that means you need to lift heavy things- most people who lift heavy things- tend to progressively do so- they are TRYING to get heavier.

There comes a point where it's better for you to lift the weight KNOWING it's not going to be perfect than to go back down in weight.

I under stand the need to have good form- but like I said before- women are the first to let a weight go because their form isn't perfect- men are the first to push form aside in vain attempts for HIGHER weight. sometimes you just have to go for it- in order to get that next lift that next weight- there IS a middle ground.


That being said.... I don't do cardio right now- I dance- but I only do cardio if I feel like I want to- otherwise no- I don't have time- I don't really like it. So I dance- and sometimes that's way more technical- and sometimes it's more just dancing- working on projects. And then I'll do a HIIT weight session- which lean a lot toward cardio obviously - if I'm not able to get a work out in- I'll do that in stead. It looks a lot like this week will be full of that.

SonyaCele

1st you say you're goal is to not work muscles you don't intend to use... then you say you are a compound lifter- who wants to use whole body moves (recruiting lots of muscles) that's just kind of contradictory to me.

heres what i meant, When i'm doing an isolation exercise, for example a bicep curl, if i go too heavy and break form, i'm gonna start to recruit other muscles besides my biceps , and maybe even unconsciously throw in some momentum. that defeats the exercise if i'm trying to stimulate my biceps. i wanna isolate that muscle, so i keep the weight a level that i maintain form. I'll go heavy enough that i'm pushing limits but i wont push into bad form.

When i'm doing compound lifts, if im dealing with hundreds of pounds and already recruiting every muscle, and if i break form, there is nothing to safely recruit and i'm gonna get hurt, bust tendons, pull muscles, injure my back, or something scary. if i lose form on the squat or bench, i got spotters that are instantly gonna assist me to maintain my form throughout the whole move. i can't complete the move with bad form, i'll get hurt.

and fyi i have tons of respect for you! i think you look awesome and your lifts and progress are awesome. you do rock.

JoRocka

thanks. I think we all do pretty well for ourselves around here- anyone willing to take the risk of putting on weight is rocking out as it is!

I get ya- I do compound and iso lifts- so I'm familiar- and even more so with compounds I'm more willing to just go for it- because there is a lot more going on and less likely to hurt one thing. Least for me that is.

I'm just saying- sometimes- it's better to go for it. That's all- women have a tendency to back off- instead of just doing it.

I'm absolutely about safety- and not blowing out a disc or tearing a bicep muscle- that's not successful way of lifting- spending more time rehabbing than lifting... no bueno. Form is definitely important- but just don't let it keep you from pressing forward.

But sometimes- you just gotta go for it- even if it's ugly. Just lift it. Even if it it isn't perfect- you aren't abandoning the premise of the lift.

Say you are bicep curling... and you are good at 50 lbs for 5 reps... but come to the last set- the last 2 or 3 reps just aren't happening without a little body pump... go ahead- put a little English on it- and curl the darn weight.

I'm DEFINITELY not advocating- pushing through the whole workout like that- I'm talking finishing out heavy reps end of the sets or PR's. Sometimes- you just gotta go for it.

Now- I tend to lift alone- so I'm more apt to go for it and deal with the consequences of a failed lift- ... and if you are always lifting with spotters- I would DEFINITELY go for it- they can help you past that sticking point and let you finish the rep (assuming they aren't those *kitten* spotters who just rip the weight right out of your hands the second they see you struggling- I'm like COME ON DUDE- THAT"S MY MONEY REP!!!! DON"T STEAL MY SHINE!!!!)



speaking of- it's deads tonight- I'm not thrilled about doing sets of 8 reps- that's so lame. I hate 8 reps- 8 reps is pushing cardio. BOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooo