how do you track progress?
westcoastgrl21
Posts: 172 Member
So I'm a full 10 weeks into this bulking process now (wow, that flew by!). I'm seeing the number on the scale go up, but it's a strange pattern. I started this bulk directly after a show, so I was stage-lean, therefore the first 5 lbs came on in one week, as expected. I put on 3 more lbs by the end of that month. Last month, the scale was nice and consistent- half a pound a week, almost exactly. **happy me**, but last week I jumped up 3 pounds in 2 days **sad me**...obviously I attributed this to water/bloat, but the weight has stayed on throughout the week, so now I'm questioning if this is perhaps REAL weight?? That would not be good...no one gains muscle that quickly. I'm only eating around 2200 calories a day, and I'm pretty good about actually hitting those numbers. At 5'7" and now 133 lbs, I think that's actually a really low number compared to what a lot of you ladies are eating (I do ZERO cardio, so maybe that plays in to my low burn?). Anyhow, my question is- how in the heck do I gauge what is real gainz vs. bloat, etc, so that I can figure out whether to adjust my calories? help!!
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Interested in the answers! I am same height and started bulk at 125lb. My maintenance without exercise was/is 1750. I ate 200/300 over for 6 weeks and gained 3/6lb. Half of which is muscle (I figured .25 week muscle gain/same in fat gain=.5lb total gain = 1700 extra cals per week=2/300 per day)
I decided I was happy, stopped weighing myself, didn't cut and went to maintenance. Eat all exercise cals back. Eat 100 cals under on non lifting days to have the odd 'party' day.0 -
The jumps in weight seem to be pretty common - that's happened to me too (one week I dropped like 3 lbs for no reason, then two weeks later I was up 5, and stabilized there for a bit before starting to creep up again). I have no explanation for it, but it seems "normal", fwiw. I honestly can't tell what's bloat vs. fat vs. gains in any quantitative way at this point, I just go by how I feel, how I look in the mirror, and keep in mind what I've been eating (lots of carbs and/or sodium will likely cause a sudden bump) and the TOM. All I know is that despite the fluff I see in the mirror, I also see GUNS and more muscle size in general. That's good enough for me. I think, just as with weight LOSS, it's the overall trend that's most important in the long run. On average, I've gained about 2-2.5 lbs/month, which is pretty much right on track, even if there were periods of downs, ups and stalls. I'm trying to focus more on the end product, and will get a better sense of actual mass gain when I start to cut again. I figure this first bulk is a learning experience
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So I'm a full 10 weeks into this bulking process now (wow, that flew by!). I'm seeing the number on the scale go up, but it's a strange pattern. I started this bulk directly after a show, so I was stage-lean, therefore the first 5 lbs came on in one week, as expected. I put on 3 more lbs by the end of that month. Last month, the scale was nice and consistent- half a pound a week, almost exactly. **happy me**, but last week I jumped up 3 pounds in 2 days **sad me**...obviously I attributed this to water/bloat, but the weight has stayed on throughout the week, so now I'm questioning if this is perhaps REAL weight?? That would not be good...no one gains muscle that quickly. I'm only eating around 2200 calories a day, and I'm pretty good about actually hitting those numbers. At 5'7" and now 133 lbs, I think that's actually a really low number compared to what a lot of you ladies are eating (I do ZERO cardio, so maybe that plays in to my low burn?). Anyhow, my question is- how in the heck do I gauge what is real gainz vs. bloat, etc, so that I can figure out whether to adjust my calories? help!!
I'm no expert and a bulking lightweight but I was just wondering how much over your TDEE you are eating? I was astonished to learn females can only gain .25lb muscle a week at the most, and even then the rest of the excess goes to fat, it's unavoidable (though I believe one can use damage limitation)0 -
The jumps in weight seem to be pretty common - that's happened to me too (one week I dropped like 3 lbs for no reason, then two weeks later I was up 5, and stabilized there for a bit before starting to creep up again). I have no explanation for it, but it seems "normal", fwiw. I honestly can't tell what's bloat vs. fat vs. gains in any quantitative way at this point, I just go by how I feel, how I look in the mirror, and keep in mind what I've been eating (lots of carbs and/or sodium will likely cause a sudden bump) and the TOM. All I know is that despite the fluff I see in the mirror, I also see GUNS and more muscle size in general. That's good enough for me. I think, just as with weight LOSS, it's the overall trend that's most important in the long run. On average, I've gained about 2-2.5 lbs/month, which is pretty much right on track, even if there were periods of downs, ups and stalls. I'm trying to focus more on the end product, and will get a better sense of actual mass gain when I start to cut again. I figure this first bulk is a learning experience
This. Weight loss and gain isn't linear so things do come in chunks. You can look at the probabilities of women can only gain this much, so that's all I will aim for but unfortunately it doesn't work like that. However for those of us who bulk for long periods know you don't always gain just 1/2lb a week just like you won't lose the exact same weight every week. No one ever knows for sure the exact amount of muscle they put on unless you have a professional BF test done and even under perfection conditions it may not be what we wished for. I track my measurements, take photos and just go with the process. Bulking is a very mental thing but if you start analyzing over fat vs muscle you will drive yourself crazy.
As far as calories, most often forget that they need to increase/recalculate their TDEE with the higher weight. If you haven't seen fluctuations that are consistent over 2 weeks it's time to adjust. How many weeks are you bulking for?
Did you reverse diet at all?0 -
Ok, I see what you're saying about not over-analyzing fat vs. muscle, and I agree. The problem is, I'm just not sure what to do with my calorie levels. I wanted to limit my gains to about 2 lbs a month, because it seemed like a reasonable pace where there wouldn't be excess fat gains. But if my gains are jumping all over the place, I'm not sure how to gauge whether my nutrition is on track...??? I guess the bottom line is that this my first bulk, so it is a learning experience LOL
I did reverse diet, although it was poorly executed
(I really struggled with self-control after the show) I will say that my first 4 weeks post-show were absolutely lower calories than I'm at now. Anywhere from 1500-1800 per day during those weeks. Then I was in Hawaii for a week. So I've only been TRULY bulking for about 5 weeks. I don't have a set time frame for this bulk, but I was thinking at least until March. Maybe up to 140 or so, then start to cut. I'm going to just see how I feel. If I hit a point where it just seems like my gains are all fat, then cutting will commence. Right now, I know at least *some* of this has to be muscle, based on how great my lifts are progressing!
This. Weight loss and gain isn't linear so things do come in chunks. You can look at the probabilities of women can only gain this much, so that's all I will aim for but unfortunately it doesn't work like that. However for those of us who bulk for long periods know you don't always gain just 1/2lb a week just like you won't lose the exact same weight every week. No one ever knows for sure the exact amount of muscle they put on unless you have a professional BF test done and even under perfection conditions it may not be what we wished for. I track my measurements, take photos and just go with the process. Bulking is a very mental thing but if you start analyzing over fat vs muscle you will drive yourself crazy.
As far as calories, most often forget that they need to increase/recalculate their TDEE with the higher weight. If you haven't seen fluctuations that are consistent over 2 weeks it's time to adjust. How many weeks are you bulking for?
Did you reverse diet at all?
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OK - daft Q, but how 'fast' is 'good' for lifts increasing? I ask because I seem to be constantly struggling to accomplish my prescribed lift each time. OK so I eventually make the lift (I am so stubborn I will not leave the gym until I do it) but usually with very poor form. I have also had to scale back my box squats because I find them inexplicably difficult. I am a pretty flexible person, but my hips just don't like box squats!
As to weight gain/loss, there are several reasons why it is not linear:
- Our activity levels are never constant, no matter how accurately we think we are tracking them (we sleep different amounts each day, may move around more or less at work etc...)
- The best and most diligent of calorie counters always under or over estimates sometimes
- Metabolism is not a constant set point, but fluctuates in line with hormones, stress levels, temperature, TOM etc
- Our fluid levels go up and down all the time
- Even whether or not you have had a poo recently has some impact!0 -
OK - daft Q, but how 'fast' is 'good' for lifts increasing? I ask because I seem to be constantly struggling to accomplish my prescribed lift each time. OK so I eventually make the lift (I am so stubborn I will not leave the gym until I do it) but usually with very poor form. I have also had to scale back my box squats because I find them inexplicably difficult. I am a pretty flexible person, but my hips just don't like box squats!
As to weight gain/loss, there are several reasons why it is not linear:
- Our activity levels are never constant, no matter how accurately we think we are tracking them (we sleep different amounts each day, may move around more or less at work etc...)
- The best and most diligent of calorie counters always under or over estimates sometimes
- Metabolism is not a constant set point, but fluctuates in line with hormones, stress levels, temperature, TOM etc
- Our fluid levels go up and down all the time
- Even whether or not you have had a poo recently has some impact!
Nadya: What exact program are you following? Reps, sets, volume, rest periods etc?
WG-It's definitely hard when we fluctuate already horribly all month. This is where I don't believe weighing in once a day helps people bc you can't see a trend. Personally I would try to weigh consistent every day or every 2 days and track your weight. Make notes if you have to as far as TOM, DOMS, higher than norm cal/carb day etc. if you're bouncing between numbers, but not a slow up, I would increase.
Is your tracking consistent? Are you cycling cals or carbs? Looking through your diary you have days with good qty of cals then low days then back to 2000. If your logging is accurate then I can see fluctuations with intake. If it's not, then you sort of have your answer. I definitely think 2000 is a lil low, what's your estimated TDEE?
Edit to add: Just saw the 2200 estimate in OP. Based on your diary for the last mth you're not hitting that calorie/macro wise at all; which is an estimated maintence for you.0 -
Westcost did you take time to find and sit at maintenance for a couple of weeks before trying to bulk? If not this might help. You can figure out what you need to simply maintain and give your body time to stabilize a bit.0
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Thanks for such a helpful post. Trust me, the cycling is not intentional - more the horrors of shift work and loooooooooong on calls! I have a knee-jerk reaction to worrying I will go over target and gain over what can be put down as muscle. Yeah - crazy I know. I am not following any specific diet though.
I am afraid I don't know anything about different types of workout, so can't say what format mine is.
I am on week 10 of a 16-week programme. 5 Workouts which becomes 6 because I split the arms/shoulders into two days because it takes so long, plus I do another day when just work on technique on whatever I feel I need to. Works out as Back - Arms/Shoulders - Legs - Arms/shoulders - glutes/hams/abductors - chest - technique day.
Weights go up by one plate each week or one dumbell/barbell size every 2 weeks. Reps decrease every two weeks, and I do minimum 2 sets of everything (5 sets for the high-rep low-weight moves that are working on my abductors/hamstrings/glutes).
As a rough marker: In ten weeks my deadlift has gone from 25kgx3x20 to 60kgx1x3, squats from 22.5kgx3x20 to 50x3x10, and barbell curl from 10kgx3x20 to 20kgx2x10. Unfortunately those are my best moves and the other stats are not so good.
I guess I 'know' I need to eat more and gain mass to gain lifts. I just wish my brain would agree with me!
By the way, this forum is excellent and I am finding it really useful - thanks.0 -
Thanks for such a helpful post. Trust me, the cycling is not intentional - more the horrors of shift work and loooooooooong on calls! I have a knee-jerk reaction to worrying I will go over target and gain over what can be put down as muscle. Yeah - crazy I know. I am not following any specific diet though.
I am afraid I don't know anything about different types of workout, so can't say what format mine is.
I am on week 10 of a 16-week programme. 5 Workouts which becomes 6 because I split the arms/shoulders into two days because it takes so long, plus I do another day when just work on technique on whatever I feel I need to. Works out as Back - Arms/Shoulders - Legs - Arms/shoulders - glutes/hams/abductors - chest - technique day.
Weights go up by one plate each week or one dumbell/barbell size every 2 weeks. Reps decrease every two weeks, and I do minimum 2 sets of everything (5 sets for the high-rep low-weight moves that are working on my abductors/hamstrings/glutes).
As a rough marker: In ten weeks my deadlift has gone from 25kgx3x20 to 60kgx1x3, squats from 22.5kgx3x20 to 50x3x10, and barbell curl from 10kgx3x20 to 20kgx2x10. Unfortunately those are my best moves and the other stats are not so good.
I guess I 'know' I need to eat more and gain mass to gain lifts. I just wish my brain would agree with me!
By the way, this forum is excellent and I am finding it really useful - thanks.
As far as strength gains; your rep range isn't going to help you there. You can progressively and have, gotten stronger if you can add weight or volume to your workout. However if you want to see more true strength and muscle gain, quicker as well, you need to taper those reps down. Continuous workouts of 15-20 reps is not very sufficent especially if all your exercises are in that range. Combo workouts are great but not all trainers like to train for strength or don't vary their wo. For strength you want to be working in the 1-5 rep range and hypertrophy in the 6-12.0 -
"For strength you want to be working in the 1-5 rep range and hypertrophy in the 6-12. "
This may be a silly Q, but does that mean "stop after 1-5 reps if you want strength, continue for 6-12 if you want hypertrophy",
or:
"Do 1-5 reps of a heavier weight for strength, reduce the weight and do 6-12 for hypertrophy"?
I guess I feel that if I can manage 5 reps of something, I should push on and squeeze out as many as I can and see if I can get 10 reps of that weight out.
I am reading up on training as much as my shifts allow, but I still have so much to learn! :laugh:0 -
You un-intentionally make a good point about my calorie intake- I often stop logging in the evenings, so when my calories look low on my log, it's usually because I hit my protein for the day and I "know" what I can/should eat for the rest of the day and don't bother to log the rest of my day....Of course, it's probable that if I'm not logging I don't *really* know what I'm eating. Maybe it's more than I think. I'm starting to think my big jump in weight this week has something to do with hormones, bc I'm breaking out like I'm in junior high and I have insomnia (which I used to get around TOM) UGH! I have a Mirena, so I don't get TOM at all, which makes it hard to be sure that's the problem, but it seems likely right now. I'm going to keep going at my 2200 for a few more days and see what happens. If my weight is still going crazy, I'll drop my calories and see if I can find maintenance, then start upping them again. I guess there's no harm in dropping back a bit to make sure I'm going forward correctly, right?OK - daft Q, but how 'fast' is 'good' for lifts increasing? I ask because I seem to be constantly struggling to accomplish my prescribed lift each time. OK so I eventually make the lift (I am so stubborn I will not leave the gym until I do it) but usually with very poor form. I have also had to scale back my box squats because I find them inexplicably difficult. I am a pretty flexible person, but my hips just don't like box squats!
As to weight gain/loss, there are several reasons why it is not linear:
- Our activity levels are never constant, no matter how accurately we think we are tracking them (we sleep different amounts each day, may move around more or less at work etc...)
- The best and most diligent of calorie counters always under or over estimates sometimes
- Metabolism is not a constant set point, but fluctuates in line with hormones, stress levels, temperature, TOM etc
- Our fluid levels go up and down all the time
- Even whether or not you have had a poo recently has some impact!
Nadya: What exact program are you following? Reps, sets, volume, rest periods etc?
WG-It's definitely hard when we fluctuate already horribly all month. This is where I don't believe weighing in once a day helps people bc you can't see a trend. Personally I would try to weigh consistent every day or every 2 days and track your weight. Make notes if you have to as far as TOM, DOMS, higher than norm cal/carb day etc. if you're bouncing between numbers, but not a slow up, I would increase.
Is your tracking consistent? Are you cycling cals or carbs? Looking through your diary you have days with good qty of cals then low days then back to 2000. If your logging is accurate then I can see fluctuations with intake. If it's not, then you sort of have your answer. I definitely think 2000 is a lil low, what's your estimated TDEE?
Edit to add: Just saw the 2200 estimate in OP. Based on your diary for the last mth you're not hitting that calorie/macro wise at all; which is an estimated maintence for you.0 -
When you see a rep-range quoted, it means pick a weight at which you can ONLY perform that number of reps. So if you're aiming for 5 reps, then you want to go heavy so that you're working with a weight that only allows you to do a small number of reps."For strength you want to be working in the 1-5 rep range and hypertrophy in the 6-12. "
This may be a silly Q, but does that mean "stop after 1-5 reps if you want strength, continue for 6-12 if you want hypertrophy",
or:
"Do 1-5 reps of a heavier weight for strength, reduce the weight and do 6-12 for hypertrophy"?
I guess I feel that if I can manage 5 reps of something, I should push on and squeeze out as many as I can and see if I can get 10 reps of that weight out.
I am reading up on training as much as my shifts allow, but I still have so much to learn! :laugh:0 -
I used to have a Mirena too, fabulous inventions! I only got mine removed as my TOM is a useful objective barometer of if my general health and BF are OK. If my periods start to go off, I know something is not right.0
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Great question OP and great answers. I'm learning a lot.
TBH I've just been winging it and hoping for the best........0 -
TOM was my first thought when I read your post. I have a really hard time with this too -- hysterectomy, so no periods, but I still have all the hormones. Makes it a real challenge to see what's going on. I log daily weigh-ins on Trendweight, which does help with the fluctuations a bit.I'm starting to think my big jump in weight this week has something to do with hormones, bc I'm breaking out like I'm in junior high and I have insomnia (which I used to get around TOM) UGH! I have a Mirena, so I don't get TOM at all, which makes it hard to be sure that's the problem, but it seems likely right now.0 -
I'm starting to think my big jump in weight this week has something to do with hormones, bc I'm breaking out like I'm in junior high and I have insomnia (which I used to get around TOM) UGH! I have a Mirena, so I don't get TOM at all, which makes it hard to be sure that's the problem, but it seems likely right now.
I have a Mirena too! Love it! But I still get the cravings (well not now cause I'm constantly shuffling so much food into my body that it forgot what hunger or apetite feels like), the bad skin and the weight jumps every two to three months. At least the cravings prepared me for the weight jump coming up and I knew what was happening... now I'm in the dark.
but like ssaraj I've just been winging it... but than again I only gained in the first two weeks... stupid body! Gain weight!!!0 -
"For strength you want to be working in the 1-5 rep range and hypertrophy in the 6-12. "
This may be a silly Q, but does that mean "stop after 1-5 reps if you want strength, continue for 6-12 if you want hypertrophy",
or:
"Do 1-5 reps of a heavier weight for strength, reduce the weight and do 6-12 for hypertrophy"?
I guess I feel that if I can manage 5 reps of something, I should push on and squeeze out as many as I can and see if I can get 10 reps of that weight out.
I am reading up on training as much as my shifts allow, but I still have so much to learn! :laugh:
Why do you feel 10 reps is the golden rule? Most new to lifting do think that but there are many ways to training. That's why many beginners start out with strength focused, full body routines to learn the fundamentals and mechanics of lifting. Stronglifts 5x5 and Starting Strength to name a few work in this range. I could easily turn around and say well if you can easily do 10 reps, you need to lift a little heavier. ???? West was right and that it involves ranges as some work in 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps and some work with their 1 rep max. I will find some articles to help elaborate more and post them on your thread later on. But it has been shown that those who work in both ranges as part of a well balanced program have solid gains.0 -
Mine is a set plan of weight/sets/reps from my PT. As the weight goes up the reps go down. Thing is, I always feel a failure unless I do over and above what the plan says. If it says 8 reps, I will browbeat myself into doing 10. If it is 1 set, I will make myself do 2 sets. Nearly kills me mind you! :laugh:
I should be coming up to a review session with my PT soon to assess my progress in terms of measurements/BF soon, which will be interesting. :ohwell:0 -
The jumps in weight seem to be pretty common - that's happened to me too (one week I dropped like 3 lbs for no reason, then two weeks later I was up 5, and stabilized there for a bit before starting to creep up again). I have no explanation for it, but it seems "normal", fwiw. I honestly can't tell what's bloat vs. fat vs. gains in any quantitative way at this point, I just go by how I feel, how I look in the mirror, and keep in mind what I've been eating (lots of carbs and/or sodium will likely cause a sudden bump) and the TOM. All I know is that despite the fluff I see in the mirror, I also see GUNS and more muscle size in general. That's good enough for me. I think, just as with weight LOSS, it's the overall trend that's most important in the long run. On average, I've gained about 2-2.5 lbs/month, which is pretty much right on track, even if there were periods of downs, ups and stalls. I'm trying to focus more on the end product, and will get a better sense of actual mass gain when I start to cut again. I figure this first bulk is a learning experience
This. Weight loss and gain isn't linear so things do come in chunks. You can look at the probabilities of women can only gain this much, so that's all I will aim for but unfortunately it doesn't work like that. However for those of us who bulk for long periods know you don't always gain just 1/2lb a week just like you won't lose the exact same weight every week. No one ever knows for sure the exact amount of muscle they put on unless you have a professional BF test done and even under perfection conditions it may not be what we wished for. I track my measurements, take photos and just go with the process. Bulking is a very mental thing but if you start analyzing over fat vs muscle you will drive yourself crazy.
As far as calories, most often forget that they need to increase/recalculate their TDEE with the higher weight. If you haven't seen fluctuations that are consistent over 2 weeks it's time to adjust. How many weeks are you bulking for?
Did you reverse diet at all?
good stuff right here.0
