Bi guy just venting a mo'

Huffdogg

Happily married bisexual man here; been aware I was bi for over 15 years, but never really actualized it until the last few years. With my wife's support, began trying to reach out and connect with the other half of my sexuality. We got on swinger sites, I got on "bi dating" sites, etc, and have pretty well completely failed to connect in any significant way.

I know it doesn't help that I can't really come out or my career would end (and not really in a way I could combat legally or I'd be up for the fight) as I work in industrial construction trades where I'm in a homo-hostile environment AND all of my work comes through handshakes and word of mouth. Anyhow, that's not particularly relevant; the world is small enough that I don't need to be 100% out to meet people.

Anyhow, I was just wondering if I'm the only one that has such a difficult time connecting with people who help fulfill one or another aspect of my sexuality. And venting.

EvanKeel

The short answer to your question is definitely no. You are not the only closeted man of any orientation to have trouble connecting with people. Plenty of people deal with similar issues. There are reasons that married politicians (most always men) get caught up in scandals with other men. They have a side of themselves that they obviously want to explore but they aren't socially allowed to do so. It's great, and much healthier, that you're comfortable enough to be open with your wife and that she's supportive.

I can't relate to your situation based on my personal experience; I've never been attracted to women to the best of my knowledge, I've been out since I was 20, and I'm married to another man. That said, I think a lot of people can at least relate to the pressure of being closeted that you feel. Had I been comfortable coming out before 20, I would have.

Bisexuals in particular have some stigma that gets heaped on them. You get the perks of heterosexual privilege, but it doesn't come without a cost. As you mention, you have difficulty connecting with people. Sometimes that may come in the form of not being able to be out because of your career, and other times it may come in the form of people in either the straight or queer community thinking of you as a fence sitter.

I don't know that any of that helps or not. I'm not sure what kind of "connection" you're looking for exactly. Since you mention dating sites, I'm guessing you want something at least somewhat emotionally intimate--if not also physically intimate. You may try reaching out to the Polyamorous community as well.

paperfiish

Bisexuals in particular have some stigma that gets heaped on them. You get the perks of heterosexual privilege, but it doesn't come without a cost. As you mention, you have difficulty connecting with people. Sometimes that may come in the form of not being able to be out because of your career, and other times it may come in the form of people in either the straight or queer community thinking of you as a fence sitter.
....
You may try reaching out to the Polyamorous community as well.

^All this.

Even being a fully out bisexual doesn't really make it much easier to connect, mainly because there's a lot of hesitation in the LG communities to really accept and trust bisexuals (the BTQIA communities tend to be a bit easier but they also tend to be a bit smaller and that has it's own form of connection difficulties).

Not even talking on a sexy-times level, to be honest, because the majority of the problem I've experienced has been just connecting on a friend level. As a bi ciswoman, making friends with gay men hasn't really proved to be too difficult, but often there seems to be a certain frostiness from lesbians that I just can't get past (in real life, that is; I've never encountered this problem with the friends I make online, so it might partially be that kind of gatekeeping frostiness that a lot of marginalized groups IRL have to avoid being hurt by outsiders, but that still doesn't make it feel any better).

Repeated iterations of "I'd never date a bi girl" and "bisexuals are just confused/greedy/horny/cheaters/really straight/closeted gay" during group discussions at my college GSA seemed to be a good indicator as to what a lot of lesbians seem to think about bisexuality and weren't very encouraging/welcoming for someone looking for community. In fact, a friend I made there admitted that when he was first exploring his sexuality, he felt like he was bi, and is still attracted to women on the occasion, but that he felt pressured to "pick" gay because "bisexual men don't really exist". It made me extremely sad

Still, there ARE welcoming people out there, and lots of other bisexuals! While you might look in to the polyamorous community, polyamory isn't quite the same thing as swingers, so it really depends on what you're looking for. I've found swinger types tend to be better about keeping things quiet/discreet. Polyamory for many is about creating relationships that are pretty equal and open among partners, so you might have a harder time finding someone who is poly who would be willing to hide their relationship with you if that's something you require because of work, though that's still different from individual to individual obviously.

You might also want to consider seeing a professional sex therapist-- not because there's anything wrong with your desires, but because it's also possible that your difficulty connecting with people might have some roots on your end that have to do with unaddressed fears of being found out at word or the like. Making such a big change related to something as intimate as sexuality can sometimes bring up unexpected blocks in our mind that can make it difficult for us to proceed even while being unaware of it.

SquidVonBob

Yep, it hurts being in the grey zone, that's for sure. I feel like I don't 100% fit into straight culture, but don't fit perfectly into gay culture either. My straight friends think I'm straight and my gay friends think I'm lesbian. When I told one of them I was bisexual she gave me this look and said "I could never date a bi girl. She'd just leave me for a man in the end." Like has been stated, you have a wonderful supporting wife. I wish I knew what to tell you about making connections because I'm in a totally different point in my life (university) where meeting like minded people is fairly easy, but anything outside of that (gay bars, clubs, dating sites, etc) I've been to scared to try myself.

AZ_Danny

My situation is kind of similar. Very kind of: I'm a gay man but I'm married to an asexual woman. I'm out to my family and her family but a year ago I moved out of state and I've basically gone back into the closet because it's just too annoying having to explain the situation every time my homosexuality may come up. Not that I'm out prancing around in a rainbow tutu (no shame in it if anybody does) but when I hear people saying extremely offensive things to me thinking I'm "safe", I usually let them have it; so it does pop up in conversation. It KIND OF (once again, not trying to even pretend I know what it's like to be bisexual, because I don't) see some of the strange "higher/lower level of acceptance at the same time" bias that bisexuals have to deal with.

As for identifying with other men attracted to men; even as a gay man, I find it hard to identify with other gay men (and usually do better around straight or bisexual men, even though I'm not all that macho). I don't do bars (but that's mostly due to being somewhat anti-social/I don't drink) or a lot of gay events; but as an openly gay Muslim I do go to pride events and maintain a blog because in the Muslim community it's extremely important that some of us live openly to give hope to those that can't. I'm a convert so I don't have my family/community to lose (they're probably more upset that I'm Muslim than they are that I'm gay).

Long story short... I feel ya! Looks like you're not alone in this though and there are lots of people here you can talk to; myself included

econista

Bisexuals in particular have some stigma that gets heaped on them. You get the perks of heterosexual privilege, but it doesn't come without a cost. As you mention, you have difficulty connecting with people. Sometimes that may come in the form of not being able to be out because of your career, and other times it may come in the form of people in either the straight or queer community thinking of you as a fence sitter.

Bisexuals DO NOT get heterosexual privilege though we are often accused of this by non-bi people. Objectification of bi-women IS NOT PRIVILEGE, nor is the erasure experienced by bi men. HALF of all bi women are RAPED, 75% of bi women experience sexual harassment and assault. This is more than 3 times the average, go figure (if a bi-lady is really an object and not a human she can be abused much more easily. So now you understand that objectification is not acceptance or respect!)
A big part of the reason gay and lesbians can continue to claim they are at risk or discriminated against is because bi statistics are lumped into theirs. when these are separated, the g/l's look pretty normal while bi's are really abused and ostracized in our society, almost as badly as trans (though the t's are getting a lot more support from the g/l's than the b's are currently!)

Bi's have to be ready to deal with judgment and stereotypes from both ends of the kinsey spectrum, and be ready to meet these things with an open mind willing to share and educate, not freak out, in hope of making the future better, safer and more accepting of diversity. This means that finding other bi's to connect with is imperative... as is figuring out how to be respectful of the rest of the LGBT community, and how to find good educational/discussion/mind opening opportunities.

So dating - use OKCupid, and practice. Practice messaging people, setting up meet&greets, second dates. Be completely open and honest in you profile about what you are looking for and have to offer. Be out and proud, but not smug or better-than, meet people at your local pride events...

Good Luck!

EvanKeel

Bisexuals in particular have some stigma that gets heaped on them. You get the perks of heterosexual privilege, but it doesn't come without a cost. As you mention, you have difficulty connecting with people. Sometimes that may come in the form of not being able to be out because of your career, and other times it may come in the form of people in either the straight or queer community thinking of you as a fence sitter.

Bisexuals DO NOT get heterosexual privilege though we are often accused of this by non-bi people. Objectification of bi-women IS NOT PRIVILEGE, nor is the erasure experienced by bi men. HALF of all bi women are RAPED, 75% of bi women experience sexual harassment and assault. This is more than 3 times the average, go figure (if a bi-lady is really an object and not a human she can be abused much more easily. So now you understand that objectification is not acceptance or respect!)
A big part of the reason gay and lesbians can continue to claim they are at risk or discriminated against is because bi statistics are lumped into theirs. when these are separated, the g/l's look pretty normal while bi's are really abused and ostracized in our society, almost as badly as trans (though the t's are getting a lot more support from the g/l's than the b's are currently!)

Bi's have to be ready to deal with judgment and stereotypes from both ends of the kinsey spectrum, and be ready to meet these things with an open mind willing to share and educate, not freak out, in hope of making the future better, safer and more accepting of diversity. This means that finding other bi's to connect with is imperative... as is figuring out how to be respectful of the rest of the LGBT community, and how to find good educational/discussion/mind opening opportunities.

So dating - use OKCupid, and practice. Practice messaging people, setting up meet&greets, second dates. Be completely open and honest in you profile about what you are looking for and have to offer. Be out and proud, but not smug or better-than, meet people at your local pride events...

Good Luck!

I admit to being somewhat confused by your response. I made no mention of objectification (of anyone), abuse or misogyny. Nor do any of those have an intrinsic link to heterosexual privilege. Fact is, yes: a bisexual man or women in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex, at least by appearances, can gain the benefits of appearing to be heterosexual. And there are benefits.

Slow your roll, and try to be less shrill. Had you read my post correctly, you'd find more similarity than difference with what you wrote.

Chelsea_O

I definitely get it. I've been married to my husband for almost 2 years. He knows I'm bi so he understands I have needs. He doesn't mind if I date girls, but that's been a mess. It's like a craving. I'm always incomplete and I feel like I'm not being who I really am, but most lesbians want nothing to do with me when they know I'm married and I refuse to lie. I chose to ignore that part of myself for a long time because I missed having my family in my life. I started only dating guys to get my family back and I found happiness and love, but not fulfillment. I can't be out at work without losing any future with my company. The one time I had a relationship with a woman, she couldn't handle me being married and it ended horribly. It's difficult having such a big part of your identity be a secret.

econista

Bisexuals in particular have some stigma that gets heaped on them. You get the perks of heterosexual privilege, but it doesn't come without a cost. As you mention, you have difficulty connecting with people. Sometimes that may come in the form of not being able to be out because of your career, and other times it may come in the form of people in either the straight or queer community thinking of you as a fence sitter.

Bisexuals DO NOT get heterosexual privilege though we are often accused of this by non-bi people. Objectification of bi-women IS NOT PRIVILEGE, nor is the erasure experienced by bi men. HALF of all bi women are RAPED, 75% of bi women experience sexual harassment and assault. This is more than 3 times the average, go figure (if a bi-lady is really an object and not a human she can be abused much more easily. So now you understand that objectification is not acceptance or respect!)
A big part of the reason gay and lesbians can continue to claim they are at risk or discriminated against is because bi statistics are lumped into theirs. when these are separated, the g/l's look pretty normal while bi's are really abused and ostracized in our society, almost as badly as trans (though the t's are getting a lot more support from the g/l's than the b's are currently!)

Bi's have to be ready to deal with judgment and stereotypes from both ends of the kinsey spectrum, and be ready to meet these things with an open mind willing to share and educate, not freak out, in hope of making the future better, safer and more accepting of diversity. This means that finding other bi's to connect with is imperative... as is figuring out how to be respectful of the rest of the LGBT community, and how to find good educational/discussion/mind opening opportunities.

So dating - use OKCupid, and practice. Practice messaging people, setting up meet&greets, second dates. Be completely open and honest in you profile about what you are looking for and have to offer. Be out and proud, but not smug or better-than, meet people at your local pride events...

Good Luck!

I admit to being somewhat confused by your response. I made no mention of objectification (of anyone), abuse or misogyny. Nor do any of those have an intrinsic link to heterosexual privilege. Fact is, yes: a bisexual man or women in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex, at least by appearances, can gain the benefits of appearing to be heterosexual. And there are benefits.

Slow your roll, and try to be less shrill. Had you read my post correctly, you'd find more similarity than difference with what you wrote.

You apparently missed my point. BISEXUALS DO NOT GET HETEROSEXUAL PRIVILEGE, but is common to be told that we do by people like you. Are you Bisexual? I am, and I spent over a decade in a heterosexual relationship. It was not a privilege. It was bad for me to be in a situation that did not honor my whole self. And it was not a privilege to lose my entire community and family when I had to come out publicly (my partner knew all along) for my own mental health.

And I will be as shrill as I want when talking to jerks like you who think you know everything. Maybe you are just trying to insult a woman (misogynist behavior) because she is questioning your clearly inexperienced opinion?

EvanKeel

Bisexuals in particular have some stigma that gets heaped on them. You get the perks of heterosexual privilege, but it doesn't come without a cost. As you mention, you have difficulty connecting with people. Sometimes that may come in the form of not being able to be out because of your career, and other times it may come in the form of people in either the straight or queer community thinking of you as a fence sitter.

Bisexuals DO NOT get heterosexual privilege though we are often accused of this by non-bi people. Objectification of bi-women IS NOT PRIVILEGE, nor is the erasure experienced by bi men. HALF of all bi women are RAPED, 75% of bi women experience sexual harassment and assault. This is more than 3 times the average, go figure (if a bi-lady is really an object and not a human she can be abused much more easily. So now you understand that objectification is not acceptance or respect!)
A big part of the reason gay and lesbians can continue to claim they are at risk or discriminated against is because bi statistics are lumped into theirs. when these are separated, the g/l's look pretty normal while bi's are really abused and ostracized in our society, almost as badly as trans (though the t's are getting a lot more support from the g/l's than the b's are currently!)

Bi's have to be ready to deal with judgment and stereotypes from both ends of the kinsey spectrum, and be ready to meet these things with an open mind willing to share and educate, not freak out, in hope of making the future better, safer and more accepting of diversity. This means that finding other bi's to connect with is imperative... as is figuring out how to be respectful of the rest of the LGBT community, and how to find good educational/discussion/mind opening opportunities.

So dating - use OKCupid, and practice. Practice messaging people, setting up meet&greets, second dates. Be completely open and honest in you profile about what you are looking for and have to offer. Be out and proud, but not smug or better-than, meet people at your local pride events...

Good Luck!

I admit to being somewhat confused by your response. I made no mention of objectification (of anyone), abuse or misogyny. Nor do any of those have an intrinsic link to heterosexual privilege. Fact is, yes: a bisexual man or women in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex, at least by appearances, can gain the benefits of appearing to be heterosexual. And there are benefits.

Slow your roll, and try to be less shrill. Had you read my post correctly, you'd find more similarity than difference with what you wrote.

You apparently missed my point. BISEXUALS DO NOT GET HETEROSEXUAL PRIVILEGE, but is common to be told that we do by people like you. Are you Bisexual? I am, and I spent over a decade in a heterosexual relationship. It was not a privilege. It was bad for me to be in a situation that did not honor my whole self. And it was not a privilege to lose my entire community and family when I had to come out publicly (my partner knew all along) for my own mental health.

And I will be as shrill as I want when talking to jerks like you who think you know everything. Maybe you are just trying to insult a woman (misogynist behavior) because she is questioning your clearly inexperienced opinion?

*shrug*

Some bisexual do experience that privilege, though. I know several. The fact that you had such a negative experience is understandably very important to you, but it's not something I'm all that concerned with. It is your life after all, and we're not friends. Perhaps I could have been less general in my comments, but your statement that "Bisexuals DO NOT get heterosexual privilege" is also incorrect for the same reason. Some do (experience that privilege). Obviously you didn't.

It seems that you inferred more from my post than was intended and decided to run with it. Your gender and sex are irrelevant to me. Accusations of misogyny appear to have no basis, unless you can provide a more in-depth rhetorical analysis to back up that assertion. It sounds like you might be a little too emotionally impacted to do so.

Not everything is about you or me. The baggage you're laying my doorstep doesn't belong to me.

Chelsea_O

I probably shouldn't weigh in on this, but eh, why not? I feel I personally do get heterosexual privilege. I even feel guilty about it. When life with a woman was too difficult because I lost my family and friends I decided to only explore my attraction to men and ignore my attraction to females. As a result my family accepted me back, I regained a few "friends" and as one of my bosses told me, if her boss had known I was gay I would have never made it as far as I had in my company. I feel guilty for relying on heterosexual privilege to make my life easier, but as a bisexual it's one of my options.

Huffdogg

Thanks for all the commentary, everyone

A_shlynn

No bisexual gets heterosexual privilege. Erasing part of your identity to get some acceptance is not privilege

EvanKeel

No bisexual gets heterosexual privilege. Erasing part of your identity to get some acceptance is not privilege

An emotionally-motivated semantic distinction. The fact that society treats people differently (and better with more opportunities) when a specific orientation is perceived means that bisexuals do receive privilege; it's easier to pass for the accepted orientation. That person may or may not be hiding anything regarding their orientation at any particular time. If I were a bisexual man married to a women, there are many, day-to-day superficial interactions where it would be weird for me to hint at my orientation being anything other than heterosexual--unless I was going out of my way to make a big deal out of it.

And it's not a privilege that anyone can just hand back.

emzyfish

I'm pretty sure what Evan is referring to is passing privilege. As a pan woman, I've experienced this. Externally, as long as I'm with a man/not with a woman or non-binary person, people assume I'm hetero and I don't get the harassment I might otherwise receive. This definitely is a sort of heterosexual privilege.

HOWEVER. Pan/bi people don't experience the internalized privilege that hetero people do. We're still exposed to homophobia, biphobia, etc, and because of that we can internalize that attitude resulting in emotional scarring or at least some serious anger issues (at least, that's been my experience).

So yes, we get the benefit of the -APPEARANCE- of heterosexuality as long as we're with a person of the opposite gender, but we don't get the actual privilege. I have quite a large group of friends who are either bi or pan and almost all of us have expressed experiencing the same thing. We both get the privilege and get the abuse because of bi-erasure, which turns us into a Schrodinger's cat of sexuality: both straight and not-straight at the same time, and thus dealing with both sides of the spectrum.

In any event, chill out, guys. Save the venom for haters, not each other.

EDIT: Or better yet, take that angry energy to your workout! Burn calories, not bridges!

harrynich

Sometimes analysis is best. Sometimes just telling our stories is best.

I'm an older gay man without much more to think about in terms of my sexuality than what Proust calls "My me." But I'm thrilled that young people, in particular, are recreating the landscape and showing me through a political, social, cultural rethinking (analysis) that we can be both more complex and more individual than I ever thought. And when that individuality produces stories, well, all the better. As Miranda says in Shakespeare's "The Tempest: "O brave new world that has such people in it!"