Achilles

FromHereOnOut

Hi.

I'm a new runner since last April and not running very long distances, but working on it.

My whole life I got shin splints. When I finally decided that I really wanted to become a runner, I researched and experimented with form and finally got to the point where shinsplints were no longer a problem. However, lately I've been having problems with my Achilles. It is tender and hurts. I massage and pinch it and do specific stretches, and that improves it. But what I've noticed is that while I'm running, if I am having Achilles pain and adjust my form, I start to feel my shins again. It feels as though I get the choice between either shin problems or Achilles problems, but can't find the "no problem" option.

I run slow, with a short stride, slightly leaned forward, knees slightly bent, mid-foot landing. If I make adjustments away from that, I start to feel shin problems creep up.

Is there something I can do in my form to prevent the Achilles problems? Any suggestions from folks who have experienced this sort of thing?

Thanks!

UrbanRunner81

I dealt with this training for my first half marathon.

What helped me is foam rolling my calves, doing calf raises with weights and I wore compression sleeve on my foot.

Take out some hills for awhile if you run hills. Downhill was the worst for me. Also cross training such as bike riding or elliptical helped me.

Good luck!

schmenge55

Here is a good routine for the feet and Achilles. http://www.runnersworld.com/workouts/feet-first-put-best-foot-forward Have you been fitted for shoes at a running store (where they will watch you on a treadmill)? If not, the right shoes can make a big difference. I also second foam rolling. Your best friend

And you should NOT have to pick between shin splints and Achilles. You can have it all

FromHereOnOut

Thank you for the help.

It's difficult to avoid hills where I live (and yes, my usual route has mostly downhill--at least til I increase my distance to make the loop back uphill, so that could be something), but I will make an effort to try some flatter routes, to see how it turns out. I'll also keep working on my calves. I already do weighted calf raises and strength workouts, but the idea of sitting inside on a cycle or elliptical makes me sad, so I'll have to get more desperate before I go that route, but thanks for the suggestion (ya never know) .


Regarding the shoes, I'm using the exact same brand/style shoe for a year now, but didn't have the problem until I started increasing my distance. Unfortunately, shoes are a problem. There is no such running stores where I live. Not only that, but generally I can't find my size here either (like it or not, my shoes are a bit short and I have to keep my nails trimmed, but still have had a black toenail for months now). Here, I've even had a running store give me men's shoes one time (they were actually walking shoes, before I started running), because they didn't have my size in women's. Nearly destroyed me wearing men's shoes. sigh. However, I had recently noticed that the last hole had come unlaced and I hadn't noticed it and when I laced it all the way, I had less of a problem. I did that after I bought a new pair that might actually be better than what I have now (per the salesman), but since lacing that last hole, it's gotten a bit better, so I'm waiting to get my miles-worth of my old shoes, before I start with the new ones. But maybe I'll go ahead and start using the new ones for my longer runs and use my old shoes for my daily jog.

Can't see the workout on that link, will have to try it from a different computer or the ipad. I see it also mentions plantar fasciitis, which I feel as though I have on my other foot, but it must not be too bad b/c I've heard of people being unable to do anything due to p.f., but for me it's just a minor annoyance (that's been there for a long time actually). Anyway, seems my calves are a problem, manifesting in many different ways and I need to address it.

Thanks! Good to hear that pain is not a necessary part of distance running and I look forward to taking care of this and moving ahead.

SonicDeathMonkey80

I went through this back in Oct for about 5-6wks. It sucked. I went to a physical therapist and she recommended the typical calf stretch where you lean forward on a wall. Only new stuff she showed me was to keep my feet pointed straight, and to also do a stretch with a bent knee, as well as the eccentric stretch on a raised stair/platform. I'd like to think it was high mileage shoes that caused it, but it wasn't (I wore them for another month back in December/Jan). I think in my case I was coming down off my first FM and was trying to bounce back too fast/too soon. The extreme inflammation/soreness went away on its own and I haven't dealt with it since. Sorry I don't have much to add except for it's not permanent

RenewedRunner

I can tell you what NOT to do: definitely don't ignore it. I had this weird twinge every now and then. I ignored it. One morning I woke up and felt like the back of my heel was on FIRE. Go to dr. My Achilles isn't torn but it has stretched so much it is almost see through. 6 weeks in a boot-NOT fun. Restarting my entire running program-NOT fun.

I would definitely up the ante with the stretching. It is more beneficial to do it 3-4x a week then just once and go all out. I stretch after EVERY run. Period. I hold the stretches for at least 45 seconds, maybe longer, if I am sore. I know a major contributing factor to mine was how many miles I was putting in on a small indoor track. Also back then I LOVED high heels-the higher the better. I would go from clickety clacking around in high heels all day to running. My calves never were "normal."

I do this even at work. http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/flexibilityandstretching/qt/Achilles_Stretch.htm

Also try lacing your shoes a different way: http://katierunsthis.com/2011/10/04/running-shoe-lacing-techniques/

You need to stretch. I feel you in that I can't get away from hills either. I live in the flat middle part of a hill. Either way I am running up or down a hill. But maybe you can try to get to a track for a couple of runs or drive a small distance. I am trying to move back to running on trails. I know I had less biomechanical issues when I was running on trails. But seriously, stretch more, foam roll, use the stick, get those muscles loosened. If htey keep pulling on your AT, you are going to have a problem.

FromHereOnOut

Thank you all very much.

I'm now a little confused about what I'm experiencing, because it doesn't seem bad enough to need medical attention.
For example, today my achilles was bothering me--sore and tender to the touch--so I sat and massaged it (where calf & achilles meet) and it's MUCH better now. There's no signs of swelling or nodule or anything, just tenderness that is especially felt when running (after a few miles).

But I'm going to take this very seriously. First, I'm going to have to cut back on distance so that I can stick to a flat route and experiment with form. Possibly I'm not pulling my foot up far enough (to be honest, I'm a bit sloppy on that part and just look as though I'm tripping forward when I'm running). I'm also going to give the new shoes a go. The lacing tips in that article were great and might really come in handy too ( I think that lacing lock will be much better than lacing all the way to the top hole, which is what I've been doing). I do stretch well and I sometimes even stop in the middle of my run to get a little stretch off of a curb and it relieves alot of the discomfort for the end part of the run. I DEFINITELY don't want any injury or problem that could knock me out of running completely, so I'm perfectly okay with cutting back til I can get it sorted. For someone who doesn't get to run very often, maybe I was adding distance a bit too aggressively anyway (I jog to/from gym ~every day, but only do one real run each week).

Thanks for all of the useful info and drawing my attention to how important it is that I get this sorted. I'm going to work on it.

ATT949

Based on what you've written, you have a history of over use injuries in your lower legs - shin splints, Achilles tendon problems, your calves, and plantar fasciitis.

I would strongly suggest that you stop running until you discuss your situation with a sports doc or, at the very least, a physiotherapist, and have them either "clear you" or take you through a plan that will strengthen your "kinetic chain".

To you, your situation "doesn't seem bad enough to need medical attention." but I've got a hunch that if you were to print this message thread out and show it to a doc/PT they'd take one look at you and ask "What are you waiting for?"

FromHereOnOut

I don't know where I wrote that I've had injuries. I've actually never had injuries. As I said, I got shin splints my entire life. But I could feel it from running as little as 1/2 a block or less. I stopped getting them when I stopped running with a long stride and heel strike. Therefore, as I said in the OP, it was due to form (not overuse). I don't have any calve problems other than what is manifesting as the achilles and p.f. mentioned (which are linked to the calves). As I previously said, I'm not quite sure that the "p.f." is actually p.f., as it is not the debilitating problem that I've heard from others. It's a minor annoyance that comes and goes (it started when I wore the wrong shoes for too long walking in the Fall and it just has come and gone ever since, maybe it's taking this long to go away).

I do strength training 5 days per week. My leg workout is 2x/week and currently includes: leg press, leg extension, leg curl, standing calf raises, hip flexor L&R, hip abduction and hip adduction. I work in both the strength and the muscle-building rep ranges for all. My core workout (back/glutes/abs) is also 2x/week and includes: barbell glute bridges, barbell kneeling squats, pull-overs, weighted back extension, lat pull down, weighted shoulder shrugs (traps), cable rows, weighted ab crunches, and weighted torso rotation L&R (also in both strength & muscle-building rep ranges).

My sense is that it's a form issue, thus my original question. I have no doubt that I could print this and find a doctor who'd treat me for something, but if this is something that is caused by running, and ceases with stopping running, then it's not an inherent medical issue and is more of an exercise biomechanics type thing (ie form).

Thank you for the input. I will be reducing my running. Last month I increased from 5 to 8mi and I think that might have been too aggressive, especially since I only run a long run (well, "long" for me anyway) 1x/wk and only go ~2.5mi the other days. And as luck would have it, I'll be too tied up to run this week at all (first time in awhile), so I'll give myself a nice rest and see how my legs respond.

RenewedRunner

Mine started as a minor annoyance as well

then it turned in to a boot

YMMV

ATT949

I don't know where I wrote that I've had injuries. I've actually never had injuries. As I said, I got shin splints my entire life. But I could feel it from running as little as 1/2 a block or less. I stopped getting them when I stopped running with a long stride and heel strike. Therefore, as I said in the OP, it was due to form (not overuse). I don't have any calve problems other than what is manifesting as the achilles and p.f. mentioned (which are linked to the calves). As I previously said, I'm not quite sure that the "p.f." is actually p.f., as it is not the debilitating problem that I've heard from others. It's a minor annoyance that comes and goes (it started when I wore the wrong shoes for too long walking in the Fall and it just has come and gone ever since, maybe it's taking this long to go away).

I do strength training 5 days per week. My leg workout is 2x/week and currently includes: leg press, leg extension, leg curl, standing calf raises, hip flexor L&R, hip abduction and hip adduction. I work in both the strength and the muscle-building rep ranges for all. My core workout (back/glutes/abs) is also 2x/week and includes: barbell glute bridges, barbell kneeling squats, pull-overs, weighted back extension, lat pull down, weighted shoulder shrugs (traps), cable rows, weighted ab crunches, and weighted torso rotation L&R (also in both strength & muscle-building rep ranges).

My sense is that it's a form issue, thus my original question. I have no doubt that I could print this and find a doctor who'd treat me for something, but if this is something that is caused by running, and ceases with stopping running, then it's not an inherent medical issue and is more of an exercise biomechanics type thing (ie form).

Thank you for the input. I will be reducing my running. Last month I increased from 5 to 8mi and I think that might have been too aggressive, especially since I only run a long run (well, "long" for me anyway) 1x/wk and only go ~2.5mi the other days. And as luck would have it, I'll be too tied up to run this week at all (first time in awhile), so I'll give myself a nice rest and see how my legs respond.

"I've actually never had injuries."
Oh, OK.

Based on the amount of strength training you do, it sounds like you've got great muscular strength so there are other things to look at. A sports doc or a physiotherapist might be able to spot a skeletal issue, a gait abnormality, etc. and create a plan to remedy the issue.

I hope you get "up to speed" soon!

marikevr

It is a pity that you struggle to find shoes. My Achilles flares up in the wrong shoes. That, and when I increase hill training, especially on hard surfaces. What helps for me is toe and calf raises, and drawing the alphabet in the air with my feet. Calf stretches might also help, but avoid overstretching (google will give you options).

athensguy

I had some pretty good Achilles tendinopathy last year.

It was from running too much. In addition, I was using zero drop minimal shoes which may have added to the stresses. Stretching was palliative, but didn't actually fix anything.

So, I think the treatment is this: Run less for now. Alternate different kinds of shoes. Do calf raises.

I am almost back up to the same weekly mileage as last year, but I'm not hurting the same, though I still have a minor amount of irritation in one of them. Last year it was a lot of pain in both of them.

walterm852

More often than not, where you feel the pain is usually not the problem, it is where an active muscle/tendon is being over stressed because something else isnt "firing" or activated.

I hurt my achilles from over exercising last year. I had to take a break but came back when it was still tender. It hurt for about 6 months. Late summer I went back to NJ for vacation and connected with a good friend who is an FMS physical therapist. He found my ankle mobility was terrible (just did a 11.5 tough mudder and felt fine), he gave me this exercise to do. This one made it go away
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZYo1gLFv_c&index=8&list=FLeAdOJU2Wfk-_PLK_KFrKjA

If there are 10 success stories here, all 10 may have different patyhs to get there, find out which is best for you and you can do that with an FMS certified PT, especially if they specialize in lower body. FMS means full movement screen, they will see what is off in range of motion and give you a personalized plan.

Good luck

FromHereOnOut

Thanks everyone. I am definitely cutting back. This week, I'm cutting back due to an unusually busy schedule that just might have come at the right time to give me some time to think about this and start down the right path (plus, no running=no problems, for a week). I've also been doing online research and have found the eccentric heel drop *strength* protocol. It's basically like the heel drop stretch, except to make it progressive, by adding weight. I always do a little heel drop at the start of my lighter weight standing calf raises (because it feels good), but I'll definitely be adding this (carefully) as an exercise. The protocol calls for 2x/day for 12 weeks. That will take some arranging, as I'm not at the gym 2x/day, so I'll have to use a step and some other weights (suggests weighted backpack). But I'm going to take it slow at first.

Here is a link with some great info. I have very high hopes that this will help. http://www.runningwritings.com/2013/11/achilles-tendonitis-in-runners.html


I'm also going to "endure" running laps at the park and/or the flat boardwalk by the beach (I MUCH prefer urban jungle running--less boring than long, clear straightaways), but I really need to work on my form. I want to work on my form in order to set myself up to begin picking up speed (and distance) eventually, because honestly, at this point, after mile 5 I'm just dragging myself along--which I can't help but to think contributes to the problem.

Thank you all.